Jagsr71 2018 TRD/ORP BUILD

[jagsr71]

Hello All,
This is my first major post and I'll start by saying that this is by far the BEST website out there for the 4Runner. I was a "fly on the wall" while researching this entire forum for 6 months, soaking up hours and hours of valuable knowledge before making my purchase on a new 4Runner. The expertise on this site was indispensible towards my decision making. Then two months ago I started the process of really shopping around (nationwide) for exactly what I wanted and... at the best price possible.
As you well know, there are plenty of different sites out there and I used plenty of them. But sometimes, the way they list options is confusing so in order to know you're comparing apples to apples, I also used the official Toyota Specification site. All you need to do then is enter the vehicle's VIN and it tells you exactly what the factory options are. It makes it a perfect cross-referencing tool:
https://www.toyota.com/owners/vehicle-specification
I was really torn between the Pro and the Off Road Premium. I thought to myself that the Pro would be the best route. It had the appearance package that I really wanted which makes it look sooooo sweet (especially the front Toyota grille which gives it that retro look from the older Land Cruisers).
Plus... it also had the upgraded Bilstein suspension package, making it an extremely capable off-roader straight from factory. Seriously, how could I go wrong?
The Pro would have been my choice if I were planning keep it completely stock. However, I knew I'd want to eventually switch out it's suspension. And although it’s suspension is definitely a step up from the other 4Runners, it's eventually a disposable suspension (not re-buildable).
My bottom line was that I wanted the right mix of on-road and off-road capability. My experience from having previously owned and built a few Jeeps, made me want a re-buildable set up.
Therefore, I thought, why spend that extra $$$ for the Pro suspension when I could at least apply that to whatever re-buildable shocks I'd want? Also knowing I wouldn't want a lift more than 3" to 3.5", the other thing I really wanted was KDSS. I'd had it on a previous GX470 (purchased used) and absolutely loved how it handled (on and off road)! Unfortunately, the Pro doesn't offer KDSS (although they did make a prototype of it).
Finally, (and not a deal breaker), it's kind of nice to have the option of a moon roof. Regarding this, I'm a bit confused on Toyota's marketing decision on this, as the Canadian version of the Pro offers it.
So decision made, 3 weeks ago, I took delivery of my new TR4 Off Road Premium.
Here's what she looked like upon delivery. I decided that since I knew I wanted the aesthetic package the Pro offered, I’d also negotiate these mods (TRD Pro grille, front and back valances) into the total price upfront w/ the dealership rather than hassle with these later. Needless to say, I was like a little kid on Christmas Day when they were unloading her.

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Why did I choose delivery? My scenario was that the best price (for the exact options I wanted) was from a dealership 1200 miles away in Phoenix. And once I found out that the Phoenix area would charge you 2.4% city/county tax if picked up. It was easy to figure that delivery put me waaaay ahead.
Now, I realize I'm a couple of weeks behind on some of the mods I've already done (mostly suspension and tires). But having said that, this will give me a chance to speed things up where I can post those mods a lot quicker (hopefully within the next couple of days as time allows). Needless to say, I've been grinning ear to ear and having a BLAST!!!
My next post will be about my suspension upgrade. There were so many choices and things to consider but I knew I really wanted to stay with the original 265’s. The HUGE problem w/ that is it’s pretty tough to strike that perfect balance w/ that size tire and a lift. What I didn’t want my 4Runner to have, was that “skipped leg days” look. Lol. But I think I found a pretty decent solution to it. At least for me, I’m really happy with how she turned out.
The other thing I considered was the type of terrain I’d be on when I’d go off road. Where I live now, it’s a lot like Colorado where the terrain is typically slower. However, I’m soon to make the move back to Nevada where it’s a faster off road style terrain. Therefore my two top choices were Icon or King. I went the King route.
Once again, many thanks to this community and for all that I've learned here from others with much more knowledge than myself. You guys helped me build what ended up being the perfect balance for my needs. I just hope that the insight I’ve gained from y’all and my consequent mods (with rationale) might possibly help the next person who might be stuck on what to do, like I was.

 

[mhippo11]

Awesome, congrats on the new ride. Looking forward to the post on your lift!

 

[Busabos77]

Congrats!!!

 

[jagsr71]

As promised. Here are parts I finally chose for my suspension/tire combo w/ pics to follow:

* 25001-243A-EXT - King Front 2.5 Remote Reservoir Coilovers W/Adj, W/Ext Travel KDSS

* 25001-125A King 2.5 Rear Remote Reservoir Shock W/ADJ KDSS

* Wheeler’s (Eibach) Off-Road and Spring T13 Rear Coil Spring Pair. (Provides approx 1.5" of lift and a comfortable 12% increase in spring rate).

* 58451DJ - ICON Delta Joint Tubular Upper Control Arm Kit

* TAC-DR-05 -Toytec Front Differential Drop Kit

* Toytec Rear 2" Bump Stop Drops

* Spidertrax 1.25 Wheel Spacers

* 265/70R17 Falken Wildpeak A/T3W

I realize this is a very subjective area. I’m not trying to stir a debate in this area. There are tons of threads dealing with this and it comes down to everyone having their own personal preferences and needs. For me, this was definitely the hardest mod to figure out. I was pretty pumped to go w/ 285’s and was looking at Toyo Open Country ATII’s in an SL rating (46lbs) or 285/70R17 BFG KO2’s in a C Rated (51.4lbs). After building Jeeps w/ 35’s and 37’s, my first honest inclination was to go big or go home.
But then I started thinking of some of the trade-offs of doing this, mileage taking a hit (albeit minor), possible rubbing, and speedo slightly off, possible re-gearing...
I also appreciated 1engineer for his tire fitment guide.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/156378-going-bigger-5th-gen-tire-fitment-guide.html

I even considered going w/ 275’s. However choices in this size are extremely limited w/ the most popular being the BFG KO2’s in an E rated (55.31 lbs). Not much advantage there over stock 265’s especially when considering weight.

I decided I wanted to keep it as close to what Toyota had engineered with the Pro… but w/ a better suspension. I just wanted to lessen the trade-offs I’d experienced when lifting my previous Jeeps.
Objectives:
1. Still have a lift w/ a much improved suspension.
2. Get as damn close to what a 3/2 lift w/ 285’s would do and looked like but w/ the stock tire size.

I felt that the key here would be the right selection of rear springs. I was looking at the Toytec 2” “Superflex” which have a 10% increase in load capacity/spring rate. I went as far as to even buy the ICON 2” Rear Coil Spring Kit (#52700) which after reading up on these, many reported that they are initially closer to 3” until they have a chance to settle. So I eventually felt this route would give me a too “jacked up” look and the 265’s would look too small and disproportionate.
After much reading I decided on the Wheeler’s (Eibach) Off-Road T13 Rear Springs (which gave me a 1.5” of rear lift). I liked their 12% increaseed spring rate too. To make sure, I checked w/ the shop that was doing the install (RSG in Denver) and Colton said they were great springs.
For my tire selection, I’ve always love BFG’s and was leaning towards them but once at the shop they advised me they’d been having some re-alignment issues w/ them. The Falken Wildpeak A/T3W’s really caught my eyes. RSG said they’d really gotten popular and they’d had great success w/ them. They looked as bad ass as the KO2’s so I picked these up instead.
I did the Spidertrax 1.25 Wheel Spacers too. I knew going into this that the 265’s would be sucked in when doing a lift. Therefore, I wanted to push those 265’s out as much as possible in order to beef the look up as close to a 285 would look like.

So far, I think I'm happy w/ my results. Huge difference in ride quality too.

 

[Tejas]

I love it, it's perfect IMHO.

I have been struggling with the same predicament in regards to improving ride and clearance while at the same time getting rid of the factory rake and making the overall look and stance of the vehicle look more aggressive. I have considered going to 285's like most do with a 2-3" lift, but like yourself I wanted to keep the factory performance, fuel economy, and Pro wheels and tires if at all possible without it looking like a roller skate. This led me to realize that I need to keep the lift to 2" or less. My only concern is running the wheel spacers, they aren't preferred and are really a bandaid fix to the offset/backspace issue of the OEM Pro wheels beyond the factory 265 tire size.

I might try running a very similar setup to yours but keep the wheels and tires stock with no spacers. I have also considered simply going with a 1.5" spacer up front and a 1" in the rear to get the clearance I desire, but I feel that too is a cheap bandaid fix to the issue that will ultimately lead me to replace them altogether.

 

[jagsr71]

Thanks Tejas. You're right about the offset/backspace issue of the OEM Pro wheels.
Wheel spacers are another one of those debatable items where some swear by them and some don’t. I decided that if I were to try them, they’d have to be Spidertrax. They’re about the thinnest hub-centric design out there. They also have a very solid reputation which was backed up by the shop. So far, I'm digging the stance.
I know it’s all a matter of preference. For me, spacers look good when the tires are flush or slightly inset to the fender. i think it looks disproportionate when the tires stick out too far. That would have happened w/ 285's, plus a lot of rubbing.
You're right about the roller skate look. I didn’t want that either. Lol
But I am at that point of my lift where it'd be an easy fix taking them off if I don’t want them anymore. What the heck, I've never done it before and wanted to see what the final look would be like.
My only complaint is a very slight occasional rub on the mud flaps at full lock. May take those flaps off. However, no issues w/ front fender liner and haven’t had to do that mod.

 

[mhippo11]

Looks awesome! I would like to go with the Kings

 

[Florpro]

I have the same vehicle but without KDSS. Yours looks sweet!! How much lift did you end up getting with your setup? The Old Man Emu suspension was recommended to me by my local shop. It’s a 3”/2” and a 285. I, like you do not want to deal with the negatives associated with the larger tires. This is my wife’s rig and will maybe see a fire road or two eventually. So I am going mostly for appearance on mine.

 

[jagsr71]

Thanks Florpro. I ended up w/ 1.5" more lift in ther rear as advertised by Wheeler's. In the front I gained around 2.5". I have a rake of about 3/4".
OME is a great suspension and you can't go wrong w/ them. I have plenty of friends that use them.
I do really think these T13 rear springs do the trick for those us that want to keep the stock tire size. It's easy to adjust your front rake from there.
Should look great! :cheers:

 

[Busabos77]

Build looks great! Keep em coming!

 

[Eriee]

Hello All,
As you well know, there are plenty of different sites out there and I used plenty of them. But sometimes, the way they list options is confusing so in order to know you're comparing apples to apples, I also used the official Toyota Specification site. All you need to do then is enter the vehicle's VIN and it tells you exactly what the factory options are. It makes it a perfect cross-referencing tool:
https://www.toyota.com/owners/vehicle-specification

First, it looks awesome. Great job with the build. Second, thank you so much for posting this link. I am in the exact same position as you, looking for a TRD/ORP in white with KDSS and trying to figure out the options is such a pain. THANK YOU!

 

[PauldF]

I bought my '18 Superwhite TRD ORP with KDSS in May and love it. I really like what you have done and will use it for the basis of ideas for any future suspension changes I might make. Nice job. Keep us posted on how you like it long term.

 

[jagsr71]

Thanks guys. Loving my suspension so far. The look and the ride is better than what I'd ever hoped for. No regets at all.
I received this yesterday. It's the low pro winch bumper w/ the Extreme LED X6S Slim Series LED Bar. I was super excited when I ordered it.
I love the construction and look of it but since then, I've been having second thoughts.
The more I think of it, the less I want to add the extra weight to the front end. A total of 125 lbs. Bumper @ 75lbs plus winch (50lbs).
I really wish C4Fab would have made (or would consider making) an aluminum version of this same bumper. As I understand, they considered it, but they're not moving forward w/ it.
On these threads, C4Fab has reported that the same bumper in aluminum would weigh in at only 40 lbs. So after removing weight from the original bumper (25lbs), you'd only be adding 15 more lbs. That's pretty sweet especially since most of the guys I off road already have winches, I'd love to use it for extra front end protection and lighting at a very minimal weight gain.
I really have to think about this one for a bit. I also live 20 mins away from C4Fab. Perhaps I can drop on by and see if there's any possible chance for an aluminum version? We'll see.

 

[57HotrodVW]

Nice job! How do the Kings feel on-road, for stuff like speed bumps, expansion joints, and general potholes?

I'm curious about how they compare to stock suspension, which is on the mushy side, but really soaks up the stuff mentioned above.

Thanks!
-Eric

 

[jagsr71]

Hi Eric. The difference is like night and day. I was told it would be that way but I had serious reservations about that. Now, I couldn't be happier with the results.
For one, the city I live in maintains some of the most awful streets I've ever seen. With the stock suspension I could feel all the bumps, potholes and imperfections. I needed to slow down for much of it since it was jarring.
However, as soon as the Kings were installed I was amazed. The 4Runner now drives much like my prior Lexus GX470 (but a lot better at higher speeds). It has a comfortable and luxury ride, soaking up all the imperfections of the road. No need to slow down anymore.
I took a rough road the other day w/ some bad washboards. I was impressed how I didn't get that feeling of having to slow down because the vehicle wanting to go out of control when the washboards worsened. I was always able to maintain control at higher speeds. I think this is indicative of it's engineered purpose of being a Baja racing type suspension.
What I found mushy about the stock suspension was the lean on a corner or sharp turn. That's pretty much gone now.
I also found that the rear springs were too mushy too. It didn't take much weight in the back to lower the height. The T13 Wheeler rear springs are awesome for that and gave me the rear lift I was looking for.
I think spending a bit extra for this suspension has been well worth it. I look forward to driving my 4Runner even more now.

 

[luderiffic]

Hi Eric. The difference is like night and day. I was told it would be that way but I had serious reservations about that. Now, I couldn't be happier with the results.
For one, the city I live in maintains some of the most awful streets I've ever seen. With the stock suspension I could feel all the bumps, potholes and imperfections. I needed to slow down for much of it since it was jarring.
However, as soon as the Kings were installed I was amazed. The 4Runner now drives much like my prior Lexus GX470 (but a lot better at higher speeds). It has a comfortable and luxury ride, soaking up all the imperfections of the road. No need to slow down anymore.
I took a rough road the other day w/ some bad washboards. I was impressed how I didn't get that feeling of having to slow down because the vehicle wanting to go out of control when the washboards worsened. I was always able to maintain control at higher speeds. I think this is indicative of it's engineered purpose of being a Baja racing type suspension.
What I found mushy about the stock suspension was the lean on a corner or sharp turn. That's pretty much gone now.
I also found that the rear springs were too mushy too. It didn't take much weight in the back to lower the height. The T13 Wheeler rear springs are awesome for that and gave me the rear lift I was looking for.
I think spending a bit extra for this suspension has been well worth it. I look forward to driving my 4Runner even more now.

How wide are your rims? I am thinking about doing the 265/70/17 with the Spidertrax spacers as well. But if I get a 17"X9" rim, do you think it will stick out further? Or does the offset of the rim kinda determine that? I have a Limited so the gas mileage is a big deal for me. Going to 285's will kill me in the wallet.

 

[FinntheT4R]

[MENTION=101423]jagsr71[/MENTION] I'm so excited to see somebody else with this setup. I've been biding my time trying to figure things out and have decided on kings but wasn't sure about tires. I love the look of K02s but would hate to deal with the issues everybody is running into with them and have heard incredible things about the AT3W (which look very similar anyways). Plus with a super white t4r, now I can really get the full picture of what it looks like doing the 265s vs 285s. Like you, I want to keep the weight down after having 35 M/Ts on a wrangler unlimited in the past and dealing with weight issues. This was really helpful in finalizing my ideas of the setup I'm ordering but had one question for you. Do you use the adjusters on the Kings at all?

 

[jagsr71]

How wide are your rims? I am thinking about doing the 265/70/17 with the Spidertrax spacers as well. But if I get a 17"X9" rim, do you think it will stick out further? Or does the offset of the rim kinda determine that? I have a Limited so the gas mileage is a big deal for me. Going to 285's will kill me in the wallet.

My rims are the TRD Pro 17" wheels.
If you go w/ the 17"x9" rim, that may stick out too much and rubbing could be a huge issue. Offset is definitely an important variable and is determined differently by each wheel offered by each brand.
However, if you go with that size wheel, you may not even need to go w/ spacers. You definitely need to be sure the tire you go w/ can handle a 9" rim. Some can only handle an 8.5" width.
1engineer is a great resource. He talks about these details on the provided link. He also has a chart that you can look up which should help you determine these variables. I hope this helps:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...tire-size-265-70-17-aftermarket-17x9-rim.html

I know I have a very slight rub on my mud flaps occasionally. That's w/ the 7" rims. Going that much wider would lead me to think it'd probably worsen.

 

[jagsr71]

[MENTION=101423]jagsr71[/MENTION] I'm so excited to see somebody else with this setup. I've been biding my time trying to figure things out and have decided on kings but wasn't sure about tires. I love the look of K02s but would hate to deal with the issues everybody is running into with them and have heard incredible things about the AT3W (which look very similar anyways). Plus with a super white t4r, now I can really get the full picture of what it looks like doing the 265s vs 285s. Like you, I want to keep the weight down after having 35 M/Ts on a wrangler unlimited in the past and dealing with weight issues. This was really helpful in finalizing my ideas of the setup I'm ordering but had one question for you. Do you use the adjusters on the Kings at all?

I'm glad it's helped you! No BS here. I honestly have not taken the time to fully test mine yet.
I'm so happy w/ the way my shop did the install and it's current setting that I haven't messed w/ it. However, I really want and will do so. Zero time to play w/ them due to my work schedule.
If anyone here w/ this experience could jump on and give us some feedback on this, it'd be much appreciated!

 

[rmbertoldi]

My rims are the TRD Pro 17" wheels.
If you go w/ the 17"x9" rim, that may stick out too much and rubbing could be a huge issue. Offset is definitely an important variable and is determined differently by each wheel offered by each brand.
However, if you go with that size wheel, you may not even need to go w/ spacers. You definitely need to be sure the tire you go w/ can handle a 9" rim. Some can only handle an 8.5" width.
1engineer is a great resource. He talks about these details on the provided link. He also has a chart that you can look up which should help you determine these variables. I hope this helps:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...tire-size-265-70-17-aftermarket-17x9-rim.html

I know I have a very slight rub on my mud flaps occasionally. That's w/ the 7" rims. Going that much wider would lead me to think it'd probably worsen.

Was wondering if you considered selling your OEM TRDs and trading them for the FX Pro 17x8 version like most guys here to ditch the Spidertrax? At $699 a set last I checked, they're a killer deal and available in powder coat. There's a ton of threads on here about guys shearing them straight off while driving, it actually happened to a friend of mine in his Tacoma driving over the Ben Franklin Bridge in traffic too here in Philly. Would give you the same backspacing you have with the wider tire, I love my 265 Falken Wildpeaks, shouldn't cause a rub issue and will probably give you more realistic stability without all the worries of losing a tire in the worst possible place I would think?