KDSS issues on a 14 TE, an update, and some hopefully useful information for others

[wfo9]

There are about 834872523-5 topics regarding this on the FJ forums. The infamous FJ lean. I have no idea why Toyota has allowed this to go on for so long, but every FJ is cockeyed. AS the FJ and 4Runner are pretty much the same underneath, there may be more to the lean than just the KDDS. FJ leans to the left though.


Personally I'd like to know why my 4Runner is SO badly nose down. It's like two inches lower in on the nose. Doesn't really help when lifting because you have to lift the nose 2 inches just to get a level starting point.

That's the thing though. The normal lean is the the driver side. KDSS leans to the passenger. And the lean will go away when you do the balancing procedure. However it comes back. So it is clearly related to KDSS and not the rest of the suspension.


I just did another KDSS suspension install this weekend. Oh boy, do I disllike working on those things. I can not understand why Toyota used such a crappy design for the sway-bar mounts and why the sway-bar carries so much tension in it when the wheels are on even ground and weighted.... It is so difficult to get those bolts with those fine threads in and out without problems. You have to really know how to wrestle with it, and most are already partially stripped due to previous techs removing them without some device in place to try to eliminate the crazy amount of tension. I think I finally know the technique to eliminate the issue on a new truck.. but if its been off before.. its already probably partially hosed..

 

[Donovan1]

That's the thing though. The normal lean is the the driver side. KDSS leans to the passenger. And the lean will go away when you do the balancing procedure. However it comes back. So it is clearly related to KDSS and not the rest of the suspension.


I just did another KDSS suspension install this weekend. Oh boy, do I disllike working on those things. I can not understand why Toyota used such a crappy design for the sway-bar mounts and why the sway-bar carries so much tension in it when the wheels are on even ground and weighted.... It is so difficult to get those bolts with those fine threads in and out without problems. You have to really know how to wrestle with it, and most are already partially stripped due to previous techs removing them without some device in place to try to eliminate the crazy amount of tension. I think I finally know the technique to eliminate the issue on a new truck.. but if its been off before.. its already probably partially hosed..

May be a lot of tension because the truck is already trying to lean left as hard as it can?

 

[wcjeep]

Did he also say they have some free all weather mats for you and that the 4Runner can fly?

It was this thread that made me ask. The Salesperson did leave for awhile before coming back with the answer. KDSS is supposedly covered under the 3/36k warranty. Any type of calibration, leveling or repair is covered.

 

[mybabydaddy]

I have the KDSS lean... it's about a half inch difference if I remember correctly. After the lift, it stayed pretty much the same. But yes, it varies depending on how/where the truck is parked. I've seen it look REALLY high, prob around an inch of height difference... but I just laugh and walk away because I know it'll be different later. I've never performed the recalibration on it either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ro_or_R0]

b407driver seems to have figured it out, but with front TRD PRO suspension
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/2490399-post61.html

Wonder if it'll fix the issue on OE Trail front suspension

 

[Jetboy]

That's the thing though. The normal lean is the the driver side. KDSS leans to the passenger. And the lean will go away when you do the balancing procedure. However it comes back. So it is clearly related to KDSS and not the rest of the suspension.


I just did another KDSS suspension install this weekend. Oh boy, do I disllike working on those things. I can not understand why Toyota used such a crappy design for the sway-bar mounts and why the sway-bar carries so much tension in it when the wheels are on even ground and weighted.... It is so difficult to get those bolts with those fine threads in and out without problems. You have to really know how to wrestle with it, and most are already partially stripped due to previous techs removing them without some device in place to try to eliminate the crazy amount of tension. I think I finally know the technique to eliminate the issue on a new truck.. but if its been off before.. its already probably partially hosed..

Both pistons will inherently have a significant force trying to extend them. They are setup as master/slave going both ways with 500psi pressurized condensers. The surface area of applied force on the cap end is greater than that on the rod end. If the pressures are equalized through the fluid, the cylinders will both have a force in the direction of extension. I don't know what the rod diameter is, but I think it's like 3/4" or so? That would translate to roughly a constant 200lb downward force on the sway bar. I don't know the leverage of the system, but I think a fair guess is that KDSS applies about the equivalent of 300lbs of lift to the right side of the vehicle causing a lean to the passenger side.

There certainly are more elegant solutions. Like having 4 pistons instead of just 2 (Mclaren). Or using double acting cylinders.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

IMHO you may just want to learn to live with it. KDSS leans, it's a known fact about the system - 65k on mine and it leans all the time, but it still functions perfectly. Lean does not indicate that something has gone terribly wrong. Messing with it will only give you or someone else the opportunity to screw something up. Having a dealership - who has admitted to knowing very little about the system - try and fix something that may not even be broken in the first place seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Ro_or_R0]

That's the thing though. The normal lean is the the driver side. KDSS leans to the passenger. And the lean will go away when you do the balancing procedure. However it comes back. So it is clearly related to KDSS and not the rest of the suspension.


I just did another KDSS suspension install this weekend. Oh boy, do I disllike working on those things. I can not understand why Toyota used such a crappy design for the sway-bar mounts and why the sway-bar carries so much tension in it when the wheels are on even ground and weighted.... It is so difficult to get those bolts with those fine threads in and out without problems. You have to really know how to wrestle with it, and most are already partially stripped due to previous techs removing them without some device in place to try to eliminate the crazy amount of tension. I think I finally know the technique to eliminate the issue on a new truck.. but if its been off before.. its already probably partially hosed..

We used a 1-inch ratchet strap to pull the front sway bar in enough to get a few threads started on the end brackets.