KDSS line cut?

[captain_moly]

Hi All,

The KDSS light came on a few days ago. Checking for codes I see C1851 "low pressure in KDSS system". Taking a careful look at everything I found this:

The tan box on the right is the battery. The hoses running top to bottom in the center of the image are the hydraulic lines for the front KDSS cylinder. It looks like a sharp sheet metal edge has cut into the hydraulic line and we can see that fluid has leaked out.

Here's another look:

...and after I tore off the little flap of rubber:

Has anyone else had a problem like this? It would be interesting to see a picture of what another KDSS 4Runner looks like. Are my hydraulic lines in the wrong place? Am I missing a guard or something?

Thanks!
-Bill

2020 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium with KDSS

 

[DougR]

2011 Trail KDSS Hoses Photo

This image taken in the left front wheel well with the forward rubber cover removed. Both KDSS hoses are visible in this image.

 

[Brandonium]

Ah this is one of my worst fears as the owner of a KDSS equipped vehicle. Just knowing that more than likely most dealerships will snap big $$'s on a piece of paper all the while not really understanding the system they are tasked to work on. :/

 

[mo_mo]

Hi All,

The KDSS light came on a few days ago. Checking for codes I see C1851 "low pressure in KDSS system". Taking a careful look at everything I found this:


The tan box on the right is the battery. The hoses running top to bottom in the center of the image are the hydraulic lines for the front KDSS cylinder. It looks like a sharp sheet metal edge has cut into the hydraulic line and we can see that fluid has leaked out.

Here's another look:

...and after I tore off the little flap of rubber:

Has anyone else had a problem like this? It would be interesting to see a picture of what another KDSS 4Runner looks like. Are my hydraulic lines in the wrong place? Am I missing a guard or something?

Thanks!
-Bill

2020 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium with KDSS

Never heard of this issue with KDSS.
I've tried to attach a pdf with a picture of that area under my hood. There was plenty of clearance to the inner fender well.

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=387829&stc=1&d=1633479983


Do you have any motion between those parts relative to one another? Are they rubbing, or did the tube get punctured elsewhere (manufacturing defect)?

Either way, you should be under warranty so go see what Toyota says.

 

[baldrik78]

Oof. Big oof. I hope you are still under warranty. And I hope your local dealership has the tools to fix it.

 

[tpetsch]

Has the vehicle been in an accident, looks kind of bazaar, like that area may have been reworked. In my KDSS equipped 2016 those lines are thoughtfully laid out with air/space around them, no rubbing/pinching/tight bends.

 

[captain_moly]

Thanks All -- there haven't been any modifications or accidents or anything. This should be 2020 stock condition less a fair amount of gentle off-roading...

The hydraulic lines are hard-plumbed from the accumulator in the middle under the truck and then there's a short rubber-flex section from a fixed bracket to the KDSS cylinder. The angle of the cylinder connections and/or the length of the flex line conspire to wedge it up against the sheet metal edge.

Anyone have another 2020 they can take a look at?

Thanks!
-Bill

2020 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium with KDSS

 

[salsanacho]

Thanks All -- there haven't been any modifications or accidents or anything. This should be 2020 stock condition less a fair amount of gentle off-roading...

The hydraulic lines are hard-plumbed from the accumulator in the middle under the truck and then there's a short rubber-flex section from a fixed bracket to the KDSS cylinder. The angle of the cylinder connections and/or the length of the flex line conspire to wedge it up against the sheet metal edge.

Anyone have another 2020 they can take a look at?

Thanks!
-Bill

2020 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium with KDSS

Now I'm curious too, i have a 2020 with KDSS. I'll take a look tonight.

 

[02SE]

Here's mine. The hoses aren't close to making contact with anything.

 

[Jetboy]

That's pretty unusual. Did you buy the vehicle new?

Could be an assembly error in how they oriented the hard line when they tightened the fitting. Should be a warranty item unless the vehicle has been damaged and repaired in that area.

 

[captain_moly]

Yup -- bought it new. Two hard Northeast winters and two long trips to the backcountry in Utah and Wyoming and it (sadly) looks quite a bit different than O2SE's truck!

Thanks for the great pic O2SE. Your's looks very similar to mine but my hose geometry is slightly different. From your picture it doesn't look like it would take much to start rubbing? But it's hard to tell in 2D.

O2SE's picture with the dynamic range stretched a little and danger zone circled:

Similar view of my truck:

It looks like my hoses have a little bit more of a kink in them... Almost as if the KDSS cylinder twisted a little (which is pretty unlikely...)

 

[02SE]

Yup -- bought it new. Two hard Northeast winters and two long trips to the backcountry in Utah and Wyoming and it (sadly) looks quite a bit different than O2SE's truck!

Thanks for the great pic O2SE. Your's looks very similar to mine but my hose geometry is slightly different. From your picture it doesn't look like it would take much to start rubbing? But it's hard to tell in 2D.

O2SE's picture with the dynamic range stretched a little and danger zone circled:

I tried to get a better angle for the pic, but other components blocked the shot. I'd say there's a good inch between the hose, and the edge your hose is making contact with. As I said it's not close to making contact with anything.

I'd say there must have been an assembly error on your 'Runner. I'd also say it should be covered under warranty.

BTW, my 4Runner lives in Utah. Salt covered roads all winter. I just hose off the vehicle (especially the undercarriage) frequently in winter.

 

[salsanacho]

Here's mine, don't see any rubbing on my lines either

 

[captain_moly]

Thanks salsanacho! Your lines look, from the image, to be a little closer to the sheet metal than O2SE's? But the angle on your cylinder connections looks to be the same as mine so that's a relief.

The service manager at our Toyota dealership didn't know what KDSS was... But I talked to a tech and he at least gave me a sense that he knows how to work on it so I'll give them a shot. Hopefully warranty will cover it.

Thanks!
-Bill

 

[salsanacho]

Thanks salsanacho! Your lines look, from the image, to be a little closer to the sheet metal than O2SE's? But the angle on your cylinder connections looks to be the same as mine so that's a relief.

The service manager at our Toyota dealership didn't know what KDSS was... But I talked to a tech and he at least gave me a sense that he knows how to work on it so I'll give them a shot. Hopefully warranty will cover it.

Thanks!
-Bill

Yeah, nothing jumped out at as odd to me with the geometry of mine. Let us know if warranty covers it, would be curious if they argue it or not.

 

[02SE]

It should be covered by the 3 year, 36k mile basic warranty. Unless of course you're over 36k.

 

[captain_moly]

I think perhaps my local Toyota dealer has never worked on KDSS before... They had the truck for 3 1/2 weeks -- apparently they ordered the wrong parts twice and then it was several days of work to make the swap with a learning curve to get everything leveled up properly.

They ended up replacing the front KDSS cylinder and both front lines and Toyota paid for everything without a fuss. It seems like the lines are sitting in a slightly different position than originally? I'm hoping it's good now!