Thai
Elite Member
Why do you need $60k Rubicon? A stock Rubicon can keep up (or even exceed) your 4runner...pretty easily.
And the big question...which do you think is more reliable...a stock Rubicon OR your modded 4runner?
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KDSS Long term reliability?
- Thread starter Vizguy
- Start date
Why do you need $60k Rubicon? A stock Rubicon can keep up (or even exceed) your 4runner...pretty easily.
And the big question...which do you think is more reliable...a stock Rubicon OR your modded 4runner?
1engineer
Moderator
Thai
Elite Member
Given the clearances of the Rubicon and gearing, it can probably keep up in REVERSE!
Agreed...on-road, i rather be on a pogo stick!
Stock vs stock? Easily. Stock vs lift and armor not as much.
Im not on here posting about reliability issues for KDSS that was never a concern of mine. I also never had any CV, clunks or other issues related to mods on my previous FJ (4runner is only 5k miles old). And Im not a Jeep reliability basher, but I know what a mildly built Toyota can do and I love Toyota's.
That is a 2 door wrangler, not a 4 door rubicon.
2013 Custom Lifted Jeep Rubicon JK Unlimited 4-Door
New 2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon 4x4 For Sale in Littleton CO | VIN: 1C4BJWFG7FL572848 | FL572848
Thai
Elite Member
If i had a STOCK Rubicon, then i can assure you that i can keep up with your modded 4runner. Have you read up on what the Rubicon has? There are things about the Rubicon that cannot be matched...unless you spend a lot of money on an already expensive 4runner.
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
Greenamphibious
Banned
one of you has got to be friends with the Wraith guy... I just know it!
Jetboy
New member
Sure, Nitrogen is nice, but it's unnecessary. Do you really thing compressed air is going to explode? I'm pretty sure we could just use a bicycle shock pump to put 3-400psi in it and call it a day.
The original versions were passive - no valves. I'm actually not entirely sure why Toyota added all of that. It works very well with a purely passive system. I would probably use one solenoid valve just so I could have it electronically switched.
As far as accumulators go, I really don't *need* one. Two cylinders can be connected as master/slaves without accumulators. And you don't need synthetic fluid. Practically every snowplow on earth uses ATF. Works great in pretty much all weather conditions with cycling rates that are vastly greater than those of a KDSS system.
Mooney
New member
I believe most would agree a modded Rubicon is more reliable than stock. Since after market company's build better products than Heep.
Ya sway bar disconnects. :lmao:
And front and rear lockers, sold front axle, and you can build them with with a variety of gear ratios...
Rubicon's are great but I want a Toyota, and a mildly built Toyota can go at least 85-90% of the places a built Rubicon can go
Edit: and I would rather have JetBoys FJ40 than any built Jeep, why? Because its a god damn Toyota. You do realize what forum you are on right?
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Jetboy
New member
?
I've wheeled with stock rubicons. They are marginally more capable than a stock 4runner. A Trail 4runner with a front locker and KDSS would be very close. A 4runner with a 3" lift and 285s would be more capable than a stock rubicon in most scenarios.
Rubicons have solid front axles - very weak ones, but with stock tires they are serviceable. There's only 3 types of D44's under rubicons: bent ones, broken ones, or ones that never leave pavement. Locking diffs at both ends (advantage Jeep). And a 4:1 transfer case. Crawl Control > than 4:1 transfer case IMO. KDSS > than Jeep's sway bar disconnect. A Land Cruiser with KDSS flexes more than a stock Wrangler with sway bar disconnect. I don't know if a Trail 4runner does as I've yet to see the two side by side on a ramp. A 4runner - as ridiculous as this sounds - is actually lighter by mfg listed curb weight.
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Way to keep it on topic and tell him he's an idiot at the same time. Props
1engineer
Moderator
My bad. $34K all day long. Kelley Blue Book
The point: A stock ANYTHING will always be more reliable than a modded anything, unless the mods were strictly for reliability and not performance.
Here's the deal:
In the $30-$40K price range, the 4Runner is probably the best general purpose SUV out there. It does OK on the highway and it does OK in the dirt. Most any CUV will outperform the 4Runner on the highway in terms of handling and ride quality. A 4D Jeep Rubicon will outperform any 4Runner off road.
My above quote is for stock vehicles. Listen: When you or any other single person here make changes to a stock vehicle to improve a characteristic you compromise another aspect of that vehicle. This does not include wear items like tires, shocks and batteries.
I said that because of KDSS. KDSS is a unique offering from an OEM. It actually improves the performance of the vehicle in both on and off road applications. As far as durability? [MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] said it best in his post above. Do a search for KDSS failures. They simply aren't there.
Many of you have modded your vehicles for improved off road performance. That's great. I submit to you that in every instance you have degraded your on road performance in some way, either comfort wise or handling wise or reliability. You made a bold statement that $1800 was too much for a KDSS equipped vehicle. Please give me an example of a mod for under $1800 that will improve both on and off road performance and maintain OEM reliability and durability, again excluding wear items like shocks and tires.
I have owned a KDSS equipped vehicle. It performed as advertised.
Thai
Elite Member
I too have wheeled with them. I kinda disagree with much of what you wrote. Land Cruiser with KDSS has higher RTI than Rubi?? Show me.
Rubi has 44 degrees angles.
But, here's the thing...if you're going to mod a 4runner with lifts, lockers, etc...then should you not compare that to a Rubi with the same $$$ of mods?
BTW, my off-road experience (in my old days) did very much include GX470 KDSS, FJC, 4runners, and Rubis. So, yeah, i have seen them and driven with them.
Thai
Elite Member
Boy, did i twist your panties? Geez dude. Calm down.
1engineer
Moderator
1. You probably need to go back and re watch the KDSS video. Connecting the cylinders rod-to-base will do nothing as far as dampening or positioning. You gotta have something (accumulator) somewhere that will absorb or maintain pressure. KDSS does a bit more than push the rod side up when the base side goes down. Here's the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww
2. You actually think a snowplow cycles more than a KDSS cylinder? KDSS cylinders have a cycle life close to shock absorbers. ATF fluid is fine... until it's not. Take a look at what happens to ATF when it gets hot, like the fluid in a shock absorber will get.
Again, you don't have to be a rocket scientist but you have to know a bit about it. KDSS is not a log splitter circuit.
Thai
Elite Member
How RTI Compares To A 4-Door Rubicon - 2012 Jeep Wrangler Long-Term Road Test
Rubi SWB is over 800 on RTI. Either way, your statement is not true.
Greenamphibious
Banned
1engineer
Moderator
smh...
Jetboy
New member
A simplified KDSS could work very will without accumulators. Yes they do build in some shock absorbing to the system, but that's not necessary for a very functional sway control system.
Yes. Snowplows in a single day of plowing cycle many many more times than a KDSS cylinder on a typical day. If you measured the flow of fluid in both systems, the snow plow would have orders of magnitude greater hydraulic fluid movement. Most of the time (over 12mph) KDSS doesn't cycle at all or extremely little. And the point is really that synthetic hydraulic fluid is unnecessary. Lots of hydraulic systems operate at -30* to 130* with regular dino based hydraulic fluids without issue.
The KDSS fluid doesn't get hot because it doesn't cycle very much. Next time you're on a bumpy road, stop and feel the cylinders. They won't warm up meaningfully because the whole idea of shock absorbing shown in the kdss video mostly nonsense. If it actually made a meaningful difference you'd need to use different shock absorbers for each side and probably different springs as well because the effect on left and right sides would be different due to the leverage differences.
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