KDSS Long term reliability?

<a href="http://s1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii615/kelseyreder/?action=view&current=f2458192e6bd4bb75094527a0878c261_zpshd15asgt.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii615/kelseyreder/f2458192e6bd4bb75094527a0878c261_zpshd15asgt.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>
 
Is English your first language?

Nope. But at least I stay on topic especially when quoting someone.

You too smart for me. Hint: sarcasm.

Answer me this:

So, in your engineering opinion, Toyota engineers made KDSS complex for no freaking reason...and that much simpler/cheaper ways could have been taken? Toyota engineers are not as smart as snowplow folks?

In other words, why do you think Toyota went the route that they did when a much simpler solution is right there in front of their face?

Or is it more logical that Toyota went the route that they went because of reasons that are NOT seen by you as an outsider looking in? Maybe we should give the Toyota engineers the benefit of the doubt in this?
 
Last edited:
Your question is why does KDSS use accumulators? First: It is my understanding of the diagrams that the valves are inline between the accumulators and pistons, so KDSS doesn't engage them above 12mph, so any speed above that they are closed off by the valving. Closing by valving fixes the position of the piston - meaning THEY DO NOT CYCLE during 99% of highway driving. This is likely for longer service life. If they aren't moving, they aren't wearing as much.

Below that speed it takes a bit of the edge off by dampening the system. This probably means longer service life due to reduced instantaneous loads, and probably the ability to use somewhat smaller and lighter hardware. However these explanations are called into question by the non-use of accumulators at higher speeds where the highest forces will be experienced. It may also have something to do with imperfect manufacturing tolerances and absorbing fluid volume variances. It is also possible that there is a dissimilar piston stroke/bore and they are necessary to accommodate this.

Accumulators likely do nothing measurable for shock absorbing in the suspension. In fact I'd bet the moment of inertia of the sway bar about the bushings has a greater effect than the accumulator allowed movement of the KDSS piston. You could probably just bleed the system poorly and have the same effect - but that's not easily repeatable. In either event both are going to be negligible noise in comparison to the actual dampening provided by the aptly named "shock absorbers".

I'd be happy to do the calculations when I have some time. But we're going to have to agree on the bushing friction - as that's a limiting factor on any dampening force actually transferring from the piston to the a-arm. I really don't know what that measurement is. It should ideally be zero, but it's some non-zero value and is going to be somewhat inconsistent between vehicles. Any proposals?

If you question is why they made the bar mount mobile rather than use a BMW/LR style twist inducing mechanism, it's probably sixes. Neither is inherently better. Some just physically fit into an existing platform better. Otherwise I don't think there is a compelling case for one or the other. It's clear why there are advantages over a disconnect like Jeep uses. The Jeep version is simply cheap. If there's ever a question about why Chrysler does something - the answer is always because it's cheap.
Several things:
First I am going to take the high road and not flop mine out on the table to measure.
Second nobody asked (or cared except you) for the above explanation. The reasoning it drops out above a certain pressure is simple. It fixes the sway bar in it's tight position for highway driving. Low speed loose. The accumulators are to force extension of cylinders to maintain a certain force on the swaybar.
Third. Nobody really cares about this esoteric conversation on KDSS operation except you and apparently you don't know when to back out gracefully when you are out of your depth. Me? You'll notice I rarely post in any thread dealing with electronic or electrical threads. I know a bit but not enough to be comfortable telling others what is fact. Again i'm backing out because nobody, including me, cares. I come here to try to help people and joke around a bit. From your posts you come here to show everyone how much you think you know and the need to prove it. Good luck jetboy.
 
Damn. I couldn't even keep track of who was yelling at who in this POS thread. And two dudes are apparently going to fight on a trail in Florida.

If any of y'all engineers worked for me and spent this much time *****ing at each other on the internet about stupid stuff during work hours, you'd potentially be unemployed engineers.
There aren't any trails in Florida, so they're good.

Sounds like you don't manage engineers. Like herding cats.
 
<a href="http://s1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii615/kelseyreder/?action=view&current=58e8c951584ad4337cd750d2fbfa72d5_zpsluumhwk1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii615/kelseyreder/58e8c951584ad4337cd750d2fbfa72d5_zpsluumhwk1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

Sorry, couldn't resist....
 
Several things:
First I am going to take the high road and not flop mine out on the table to measure.
Second nobody asked (or cared except you) for the above explanation. The reasoning it drops out above a certain pressure is simple. It fixes the sway bar in it's tight position for highway driving. Low speed loose. The accumulators are to force extension of cylinders to maintain a certain force on the swaybar.
Third. Nobody really cares about this esoteric conversation on KDSS operation except you and apparently you don't know when to back out gracefully when you are out of your depth. Me? You'll notice I rarely post in any thread dealing with electronic or electrical threads. I know a bit but not enough to be comfortable telling others what is fact. Again i'm backing out because nobody, including me, cares. I come here to try to help people and joke around a bit. From your posts you come here to show everyone how much you think you know and the need to prove it. Good luck jetboy.

I'm confused. The pressures of the two accumulators are the same but somehow that does what now? It moves both cylinders to neutral? That seems to defy the laws of physics. You're the "expert" until you're called out and now you're "taking the high road". Ok...

Good luck to you as well.
 
Last edited:
I'm confused. You're the "expert" until you're called out and now you're "taking the high road". Ok...

Good luck to you as well.

In case you haven't been reading the past several posts nobody cares! Tell you what, if you really care pm me and we can continue there.
 
I thought this thread was a train wreck earlier today. Turns out it was just getting started. Holy cow!
 
Hate to get back on topic but , The KDSS system that's in place on our fifth gen 4runners is different than the Lexus System that was used in the previous GX and the current GX. the GX is more complicated has more electronic input and is it dual-mode system that's more complicated .the 4Runner version has only been in production since 2010 model year so we really only have five years to study so nobody knows what the long-term is going to be until we hit the long-term and look back. If you purchased the extended warranty your 2010 could still be under factory warranty so we won't hear people complaining or being frustrated about not being able to fix it yet. I suspect on the East Coast in the Rust Belt this is going to be a big problem in another five years but time will tell. Another big factor is if they discontinue the GX and the six gen 4runner doesn't have KDSS you're done ! you'll never be able to get parts you'll never be able get it fixed, you're going to be stuck down the road. KDSS requires Toyota's special service tools special oil special pump and special procedure.
It's going to turn out very similar to the previous gen guys commonly removing that XREAS system and also that air leveling suspension junk.
 
Last edited:
the 4Runner version has only been in production since 2010 model year so we really only have five years to study so nobody knows what the long-term is going to be until we hit the long-term and look back..

Exactly. That's what this whole convoluted discussion boils down to. Long term reliability of KDSS on a 5th gen? I dunno. Nobody knows.

For now, I'm just going to enjoy the shit out of my 4Runner. Live in the now!! KDSS breaks? I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Best case scenario, it works as advertised until the vehicle reaches the end of its life. Worst case scenario, resale value of KDSS-equipped units plummets - then you have a reason to SAS, V8 swap, turn it into a dedicated trail rig, whatever you desire. Isn't that why most of us are enthusiasts in the first place?
 
Another big factor is if they discontinue the GX and the six gen 4runner doesn't have KDSS you're done ! you'll never be able to get parts you'll never be able get it fixed, you're going to be stuck down the road. KDSS requires Toyota's special service tools special oil special pump and special procedure.
You can buy FJ40 parts from any Toyota dealer in the country. Do you really think they are going to leave thousands of 4runner, GX470, GX460, LandCruiser, and LX570 owners in the lurch? Toyota is not going to stop selling parts, hydraulic fluid, or SSTs to service KDSS in the next couple of decades (especially since they are all extremely high margin).
 
You can buy FJ40 parts from any Toyota dealer in the country. Do you really think they are going to leave thousands of 4runner, GX470, GX460, LandCruiser, and LX570 owners in the lurch? Toyota is not going to stop selling parts, hydraulic fluid, or SSTs to service KDSS in the next couple of decades (especially since they are all extremely high margin).

FJ40 is it's own animal and has a cult like following totally agree on parts availability for that. I get your other points but you're also kind of making my point when you mentioned the profit, how expensive is it going to be to repair this system if it can be. Remember manufactures are only required to make replacement parts for 10 years that's the only guarantee we have ! I called around it is near impossible to find anybody that will work on our KDSS and it's in current production. Say it's discontinued plus five years after that no way , we can find anybody that will fix that system correctly notice I said correctly. that's my opinion of course we all have them. I've been a member here for 10 years and will be 10 years from now so we will see how it works out.This is the remainder of the information I'm going to post about the subject. I encourage all to use your own minds and
da da don't believe the hype , don't believe the hype boy
 
Last edited:

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,309
Messages
3,554,067
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top