KDSS on road behavior

[Blanco T4R]

Kdss

I've been researching going with KDSS on a TE order vs skipping it since I live in the gulf coast region where they are hard to find. If it makes normal driving much better or composed vs not having it I would definitely go out of my way to find it. I've driven a non KDSS TE and it felt fine on the road but I didn't have KDSS to compare .

Any thoughts opinions? Thanks for any info.

Hey Aurora85,

I have a 2016 TE w/ KDSS. It is worth every penny. I compared TE's w & w/o before buying and it was night and day different. The KDSS give the 4R stability and seems to remove road noise and decreases bouncing when driving over uneven pavement.

Hope that helps.

 

[b407driver]

Hey Aurora85,

I have a 2016 TE w/ KDSS. It is worth every penny. I compared TE's w & w/o before buying and it was night and day different. The KDSS give the 4R stability and seems to remove road noise and decreases bouncing when driving over uneven pavement.

It'd be great to have a closed course and run two side by side to see. I'd bet the KDSS with the same shocks an all stock suspension components outruns a TRD Pro with the lighter sway bars around a short course. I'll bring my KDSS if someone wants to bring a TRD Pro - except I have FOX shocks.

And I just happen to have a TEP w/KDSS and TRD suspension; all we need is a TRD Pro and we can race. lol

Of course, I'd be less interested in the outright speed aspect, and more interested in how it felt/handled on the same course at a given speed (or speeds).

 

[LandCruiser]

Hey Aurora85,

I have a 2016 TE w/ KDSS. It is worth every penny. I compared TE's w & w/o before buying and it was night and day different. The KDSS give the 4R stability and seems to remove road noise and decreases bouncing when driving over uneven pavement.

Hope that helps.

It also helps with a lot of the ponderousness you get when you lift and upgrade the tires. At some point I'd like to do a body lift and 6" overall, so I may have to get a second 4Runner without KDSS to do that--I don't feel like gutting the one I have.

 

[b407driver]

Here is the article about the durability test/prototype vehicle.
2010 Toyota 4Runner Takes on the Baja 1000 - Motor Trend

Just spun through that article, thanks for posting. Seems to me that if the KDSS system brought about problems for them, they would likely have mentioned it. Then again, it was a marketing piece, so who knows what they left out to suit their own purposes after jumping through all those hoops. Sounds like Ivan Stewart was able to push the speed of that vehicle far faster than anyone thought possible, so if the KDSS had been a detriment, you'd think it would have affected his bottom line.

FWIW, I haven't yet noticed any negative ride characteristics on the few dirt roads I've driven so far, but my current frame of reference is a 13 year old Sequoia, and can't compare to any 5th Gen non-KDSS vehicles.

 

[CoolMax]

So...why isn't XREAS from the "top-of-the-line" Limited on the LC200 & GX? Are we saying that KDSS is better than XREAS?

 

[1engineer]

So...why isn't XREAS from the "top-of-the-line" Limited on the LC200 & GX? Are we saying that KDSS is better than XREAS?

We are saying KDSS is designed to work at low speed off road and high speed on road. Limiteds are mostly used on road. Mostly, with several exceptions lol.

 

[Throwback]

I test drove a TE with KDSS and one without back to back when I bought mine. The on road behavior was noticeably better in the one with KDSS so that's what I bought. The KDSS really cuts down on the traditional truck-like body roll and heavy-feeling steering.

The improved off road articulation of the KDSS was just another plus.

I will not be modifying the stock suspension at all so I wanted the best OEM set up available for real life (95%+ highway/daily driver). I know some guys avoid KDSS because they know they will be modifying the entire OEM suspension and that makes sense to me. Different strokes as they say.

 

[msk2u]

Agree!

The below summary would be what I'd say too.. I drove both and if you're going to be using the 4runner for work /highway miles you'll love the KDSS handling. Else, as per above , if you're doing customization best skip it..

Let me know if you've got any questions on it -just got mine and trying it out

I test drove a TE with KDSS and one without back to back when I bought mine. The on road behavior was noticeably better in the one with KDSS so that's what I bought. The KDSS really cuts down on the traditional truck-like body roll and heavy-feeling steering.

The improved off road articulation of the KDSS was just another plus.

I will not be modifying the stock suspension at all so I wanted the best OEM set up available for real life (95%+ highway/daily driver). I know some guys avoid KDSS because they know they will be modifying the entire OEM suspension and that makes sense to me. Different strokes as they say.

 

[CoolMax]

We are saying KDSS is designed to work at low speed off road and high speed on road. Limiteds are mostly used on road. Mostly, with several exceptions lol.

Doesn't Lexus know that an overwhelming majority of its vehicles remain on road - except in this commercial:

 

[1engineer]

Doesn't Lexus know that an overwhelming majority of its vehicles remain on road - except in this commercial:

It's an ad man.

 

[wfo9]

Just spun through that article, thanks for posting. Seems to me that if the KDSS system brought about problems for them, they would likely have mentioned it. Then again, it was a marketing piece, so who knows what they left out to suit their own purposes after jumping through all those hoops. Sounds like Ivan Stewart was able to push the speed of that vehicle far faster than anyone thought possible, so if the KDSS had been a detriment, you'd think it would have affected his bottom line.

FWIW, I haven't yet noticed any negative ride characteristics on the few dirt roads I've driven so far, but my current frame of reference is a 13 year old Sequoia, and can't compare to any 5th Gen non-KDSS vehicles.

The point here is that nobody in their right mind with any suspension experience would build a desert racer/pre-runner with a big stiff swaybar connected directly to an IFS LCA. They built that truck as a durability test and marketing stunt. They did not include KDSS to make it perform any better....

KDSS excels in 4 situations (which covers most driving conditions)
- on road smooth or slightly uneven pavement
- on road slalom/curves
- off-road slightly uneven surface (dirt roads)
- off-road trail conditions (slow speed crawls)

It will not excel off-road at speed on a very uneven surface.

From my experience with it... KDSS runs in two modes Engaged/open. In open mode it lets the swaybar move more freely (decreasing the cross axle load variance of the sway bar).

However, when engaged (at speed) the swaybar is transferring load variance across the axle which greatly reduces the effectiveness of independent suspension. This sacrifices both traction and body control.

This is why I feel they did not include KDSS on the TRD pro. The marketing thrust of the TRD series is clearly in the direction of desert racing... as shown in the quote below from the Toyota website.

For over 35 years, Toyota Racing Development has been a major force in motorsports, racking up numerous off-road racing victories in the grueling Baja 500 and Baja 1000. Now, born from the lessons learned in the Mexican desert, Toyota is offering the TRD Pro Series Tundra, Tacoma and 4Runner. Each of these terrain-conquering trucks comes fully equipped with the TRD hardware that helps serious off-roaders go places they never dreamed possible.

Others will claim they removed it to hit a price point.... but it's all opinion at this point.

In summary, KDSS is great for most use cases. But like most things in life. It has pros and cons and is not for everyone.

 

[e60ral]

[...]It will not excel off-road at speed on a very uneven surface.

From my experience with it... KDSS runs in two modes Engaged/open. In open mode it lets the swaybar move more freely (decreasing the cross axle load variance of the sway bar).

However, when engaged (at speed) the swaybar is transferring load variance across the axle which greatly reduces the effectiveness of independent suspension. This sacrifices both traction and body control.

This is why I feel they did not include KDSS on the TRD pro. The marketing thrust of the TRD series is clearly in the direction of desert racing... as shown in the quote below from the Toyota website.

i think you may be missing the point that a few people are making though. those are all criticisms of the heavy sway bar and not KDSS itself. if you paired the KDSS with the same sway bar you wouldn't have those disadvantages but would have the added advantage of more articulation at low speed.

 

[1engineer]

i think you may be missing the point that a few people are making though. those are all criticisms of the heavy sway bar and not KDSS itself. if you paired the KDSS with the same sway bar you wouldn't have those disadvantages but would have the added advantage of more articulation at low speed.

If you paired KDSS with a less substantial swaybar then you would not have the firmness (less suspension articulation) when KDSS is pressurized during normal on road driving. It would also not gain anything during low speed off road because when KDSS is relaxed, the swaybar is effectively taken out of play. Maybe I am missing something...

 

[e60ral]

If you paired KDSS with a less substantial swaybar then you would not have the firmness (less suspension articulation) when KDSS is pressurized during normal on road driving. It would also not gain anything during low speed off road because when KDSS is relaxed, the swaybar is effectively taken out of play. Maybe I am missing something...

If the swaybars and suspension was the same they would handle the same at speed. At low speed you would still have extra articulation because a soft sway bar with a flexible link is still softer than the same soft swaybar with regular end links.


The point is that it's not KDSS, its the thick swaybar, KDSS just allows for the use of the thick swaybar without being miserable off-road

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

 

[61hawk]

Easier said than done. Based on prior threads on this topic, apparently most Lexus dealers won't work on a Toyota.

This probably depends on what city you're in, here the Lexus dealer is owned by a guy who owns a Toyota dealership.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

Some day, far into the apocalyptic future, there will be a single KDSS thread that does not turn into a sh!t show.

 

[Liquidmantis]

 

[Brandonium]

I quite like my KDSS equipped TEP. I can see that it isn't for everyone but I can also see how many would discuss loss of capabilities in situations that they themselves may never indulge in (myself included).

Also, curious how many real world examples there are where someone was on the Trail and thought 'Man I sure wish I didn't have KDSS' and vice-versa for on road manners.

For those discussions where KDSS is stated as not ideal for faster offroading, how is this impacted with a coil-over setup? I mean is that statement across the board stock suspension and one equipped with many of the aftermarket offerings?

 

[prasta]

This is my first post. Sorry to tag onto an old thread but I'm not allowed to start new threads yet.

I have a 2012 Trail with KDSS. I've had a weird "thing" happen probably 5-6 times now, always under the same conditions. Vehicle heavily loaded (4 humans + a bunch of crap), curvy mountain roads, coming into a left hand curve a little hot. Under these conditions the front right wheel will momentarily let go. It almost feels like the wheel folds over a little and skids, and there's a bit of a thunk feeling to it. It has never happened in a right hand curve and never with just me in the vehicle. It's very disconcerting when it happens and under the wrong conditions could probably be very dangerous. I don't think it's a tire issue because it doesn't feel like that. The folding/diving behavior makes me suspect KDSS. Anyone else experienced anything like this?

Thanks.

A similiar thing happens to me if I come off or enter the freeway a bit too hot. The truck leans a little, then the power shuts off to the wheels and it pulls in the opposite direction of the turn. It's a bit disconcerting...

 

[LandCruiser]

I quite like my KDSS equipped TEP. I can see that it isn't for everyone but I can also see how many would discuss loss of capabilities in situations that they themselves may never indulge in (myself included).

Also, curious how many real world examples there are where someone was on the Trail and thought 'Man I sure wish I didn't have KDSS' and vice-versa for on road manners.

For those discussions where KDSS is stated as not ideal for faster offroading, how is this impacted with a coil-over setup? I mean is that statement across the board stock suspension and one equipped with many of the aftermarket offerings?

It's just one of those things that makes a noticeable difference if you drive two trucks back to back.