KDSS or not? Why?

[PitbullRescuer]

Good evening all. I'm sure this has probably been addressed in this forum already, I'm generally a 3rd Gen guy. (I've owned 7 of them). Seriously considering a 5th Gen Trail Edition. I've never bought a brand new car but I figure if I bite that bullet, it might as well be a 4Runner.

My only question is the KDSS. What is it? And what's the general consensus? This won't be wheeled. It'll be used as a DD, dog and kid hauler, shooting range commuter, etc. the only thing I can foresee doing would be to swap out the wheels and tires. So that said, if I buy one, should I spring for the KDSS or not? And why? Thanks in advance. PBR.

 

[3wbdriver]

The way I understand the KDSS system is that you have an active sway bar setup. When off roading the sway bar will actually soften to allow better suspension travel. I don't have KDSS in my 2014 Trail and am really quite happy with its on road manners. It corners nice and flat and remains stable at highway speeds. I'm actually wishing I had researched a little more before I bought, because I have the impression the KDSS would be better for those occasions I do off road, allowing more suspension flex than the standard sway bar system. I was wishing I had less sway bar on the front end while running the trails at the Lone Star Toyota Jamboree. The rear sway bar was soft enough to allow plenty of travel, but the front end tended to want to follow the terrain contours more. So if you're not planning to do much off road you should be fine with the standard sway bar package.

Someone will be along to correct me if my understanding is wrong. I believe you can also watch a video on Youtube by searching KDSS on there. The video below is for a Land Cruiser, but the description is still good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww

 

[1engineer]

I have had both - An '11 SR5 (66K miles) without and a '12 TE (36K miles) with. The TE is much better on road around corners as far as less body lean. My off roading is not rough enough to notice much difference there. I will not have another without KDSS.

 

[2014 Warthog]

I'd say the answer comes down to: "Do you plan on doing your own suspension mods in the future?"

If Yes, then maybe save the money by not getting the KDSS since better COs and shocks etc will take care of the lackluster KDSSless on-road performance by itself.

If you do not plan on doing your own suspension upgrades, then KDSS may be worth the extra up front.

While the positives are well known and they do work, but there are a few negatives that crop up here and there too I've seen.

* Thunking sound when driving over bumps. Drives some people crazy.
* Can get in the way of some suspension upgrades.
* Another part to fail. The pistons have leaked on some people in as little as 30k miles and is a $1500-$2500 fix.
* Limiting area in the back for larger spare tire or other things you might want to put there.

 

[Dewfang]

I have had both - An '11 SR5 (66K miles) without and a '12 TE (36K miles) with. The TE is much better on road around corners as far as less body lean. My off roading is not rough enough to notice much difference there. I will not have another without KDSS.

I agree 100%! I've had a 2011 without and now a 2014 TE with. There is a very noticeable improvement in road manners with the KDSS..

 

[Maz]

I had a 4th Gen with the XREAS suspension, I believe the 5th Gen Limited Edition still uses. Now I drive a Trail with KDSS. The 4th and 5th Gen drive very differently, so a direct comparison is difficult. However in general I think KDSS is noticeably better for keeping the rig flat while turning. It's very much better for settling things back down after going off hard bumps.

As to your basic question it appears a lot of people like KDSS, but most T4R's don't have it. My guess is whatever you pay extra to get it, will be largely refunded in additional resale value for a popular but not that easy to get option. So in the end why would you not get something that would likely make your driving experience better, but also likely not cost much?

 

[Sac State]

Something to break, not work as advertised.

Those are what I had going through my mind when given the option of buying KDDS. I had XREAS in a 3rd generation and it leaked and limited my lift options, so I did not enjoy it. From what I have read on this forum, the KDDS has many clicks, chirps, bump anomalies that I didn't want to go that route again.

If I am looking for a stiffer suspension, Bilstein, Toyotec, etc. fits the bill nicely and without worry and anticipation of something breaking.

Resale is nominal, don't believe it. My FJ TT did not retain the resale everyone thought, including me. Dealers will look at KDDS at trade in and roll their eyes. Perhaps 3rd party it might hold resale value, but doubt it.

Trail does offer a rear locker, different seat material and the hood scoop. I also notice the trucks with KDDS seem to sit ass higher (rake) than others, maybe just my old eyes playing tricks.

 

[The Waco Kid]

My opinion of it is pretty one sided, but after test driving only SR5's and Limiteds before I bought my Trail, I'll say that I'm glad I went with the KDSS equipped version. I do hear a slight knock whenever I go over a bump at sharp left turn at 10-15 miles an hour, but honestly, it really isn't a "big" noise at all. Heck I have to turn the air conditioner off just to hear it... and that's with me replicating it at a particular intersection by my house. I never hear it anywhere else.

If it's your daily driver and you have no plans of ripping out the guts out of the suspension in the near future, then by all means, get the KDSS.

The only real thing I'd be worried about is the leaking of the cylinders. But that's nothing a (extended)warranty can't take care of.

Just an FYI:
I use mine as a daily driver, toy hauler (motorcycles/mtb's), beach trips, and the occasional West Texas ranch road offroader.

 

[1engineer]

Something to break, not work as advertised.

Those are what I had going through my mind when given the option of buying KDDS. I had XREAS in a 3rd generation and it leaked and limited my lift options, so I did not enjoy it. From what I have read on this forum, the KDDS has many clicks, chirps, bump anomalies that I didn't want to go that route again.

If I am looking for a stiffer suspension, Bilstein, Toyotec, etc. fits the bill nicely and without worry and anticipation of something breaking.

Resale is nominal, don't believe it. My FJ TT did not retain the resale everyone thought, including me. Dealers will look at KDDS at trade in and roll their eyes. Perhaps 3rd party it might hold resale value, but doubt it.

Trail does offer a rear locker, different seat material and the hood scoop. I also notice the trucks with KDDS seem to sit ass higher (rake) than others, maybe just my old eyes playing tricks.

You just keep on believing that. What you have read on this forum is a very small minority with KDSS issues. XREAS and KDSS are apples and oranges.

KDSS equipped resale is not nominal it is a real added value, unlike trying to get anything out of an aftermarket suspension. Don't believe me? According to KBB.com, right now a 2011 SR5 Premium 4X4 with 45K miles will cost you $30,328 list. Same model KDSS equipped TE will cost you $32,191 list. About the same difference will be allowed on trade in. Find me an aftermarket suspension that will show that in a book.

I'm sorry about your FJ TT and the TOB you mention in every post of late. I'm sorry it did not bring what you expected but FJ's don't bring near the trade value of 4Runners as evidenced here http://www.nada.com/b2b/Portals/0/a...erspective Truck SUV Retention April 2014.pdf

 

[Whiplash Willy]

I don't have much experience with KDSS off road, but on road, it keeps you amazingly stable when taking corners.

However, there are 3 reasons I would never own another vehicle with it again.

1. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/160261-14-te-guys-weird-noise.html

2. $1,500 to replace the rear actuator and bleed the system (@80k miles)

3. Most places don't have the tools and experience to properly troubleshoot and work on that system. Not all Toyota dealerships can work on it, and if you do find one that does, the tech likely has very little experience working on it. You are pretty much stuck going to a Toyota or Lexus dealership.

 

[Sac State]

You just keep on believing that. What you have read on this forum is a very small minority with KDSS issues. XREAS and KDSS are apples and oranges.

KDSS equipped resale is not nominal it is a real added value, unlike trying to get anything out of an aftermarket suspension. Don't believe me? According to KBB.com, right now a 2011 SR5 Premium 4X4 with 45K miles will cost you $30,328 list. Same model KDSS equipped TE will cost you $32,191 list. About the same difference will be allowed on trade in. Find me an aftermarket suspension that will show that in a book.

I'm sorry about your FJ TT and the TOB you mention in every post of late. I'm sorry it did not bring what you expected but FJ's don't bring near the trade value of 4Runners as evidenced here http://www.nada.com/b2b/Portals/0/a...erspective Truck SUV Retention April 2014.pdf

Don't get butt hurt trying to justify your decision to get this KDSS option. :flamethrwoer2:

I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book.

I mention my FJ in every post just to piss anal compassionate know-it-all's like you off.

 

[Jeff614]

Interesting to see the repair bills that could occur with KDSS. FWIW, while I ended up with a base trail w/o KDSS I was able to drive one with it and if I could have found and afforded a premium edition with it in my timeframe I'd have gone for it.

I didn't notice a HUGE difference on-road, but it did feel a bit more stable. It seems with the '14 and up KDSS is primarily only equipped on the premium editions so you'll get the leather and sunroof if that's important to you as well.

I'm in no way disappointed in my base trail though and hope to improve the handling some with a few upgrades down the line.

Best of luck on your purchase and sounds like you'll be happy with your new T4R whichever way you go, but if the opportunity presented itself I'd pick the one with KDSS.

- Jeff

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

If your going to worry about it breaking in the future than I would skip it. However, KDSS has been an option (or standard) on the GX470\60 and Land Cruiser for a while now, and there are very few issues to report. The only 4Runner year that has reported any issues is the 2014, and so far it's basically just a noise that the system seems to be making. No one has had a major issue from said noise. Here in CO the only option I had was with KDSS so I went for it. Seems like your planning on being mostly on road - I have not seen a single person ever report that the vehicle drove worse on road with KDSS and the vast majority of the people who have owned both say that KDSS is better than their previous Runner w\o it.

 

[1engineer]

Don't get butt hurt trying to justify your decision to get this KDSS option. :flamethrwoer2:

I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book.

I mention my FJ in every post just to piss anal compassionate know-it-all's like you off.

So go ahead bro, post up your information. Make sure you post real world links like I did though or else its just words. I really shouldn't reply to this because posts like yours are most always bluster and pontification and facts be damned, but I am giving you a chance here to prove that a TE with KDSS is worth the same on trade or retail as a TE without KDSS.

Sorry again about your FJ TT TOB. (just wanted to mention it again just in case)

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book.
.

Please post these numbers! I would like to know what (if any) extra $ my KDSS could fetch me in the future.

 

[chmura]

I was in the market for a GX470 a while ago and almost all dealers/owners did not even know if the model were selling had KDSS or not. Thus selling prices were the same with and without KDSS.

So this leads me to believe the 4runner will be the same. Your normal joe at a dealership selling a used 4runner 5 years down the line with 80k miles won't even know what KDSS is and the price will not be more for one that has one.

Of course there will be the occasional dealer/seller that knows about it and will try to sell it for premium but I strongly believe many many 4runners with KDSS wont even have this item listed in the sellers description and the price will be the same as used Trail Edition with or without KDSS.

When I was buying my 2009 Trail Edition 4runner almost all dealers were listing them as an "SR5" model and not even "Trail Edition" any where in the title or sellers description, they were selling them as regular SR5 models without adding a premium for the trail.

 

[USMCRUNNER]

Don't get butt hurt trying to justify your decision to get this KDSS option. :flamethrwoer2:

I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book.

I mention my FJ in every post just to piss anal compassionate know-it-all's like you off.

opcorn:

 

[crunchcity]

:beer:

I was in the market for a GX470 a while ago and almost all dealers/owners did not even know if the model were selling had KDSS or not. Thus selling prices were the same with and without KDSS.

So this leads me to believe the 4runner will be the same. Your normal joe at a dealership selling a used 4runner 5 years down the line with 80k miles won't even know what KDSS is and the price will not be more for one that has one.

Of course there will be the occasional dealer/seller that knows about it and will try to sell it for premium but I strongly believe many many 4runners with KDSS wont even have this item listed in the sellers description and the price will be the same as used Trail Edition with or without KDSS.

When I was buying my 2009 Trail Edition 4runner almost all dealers were listing them as an "SR5" model and not even "Trail Edition" any where in the title or sellers description, they were selling them as regular SR5 models without adding a premium for the trail.

Some of the dealers around here don't even pay attention to trim level around here when it comes to resale values, let alone features within a trim level...lol :beer:

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

Don't get butt hurt trying to justify your decision to get this KDSS option. :flamethrwoer2:

I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book.

I mention my FJ in every post just to piss anal compassionate know-it-all's like you off.

Please do post your "first-hand" and REAL WORLD figures.

 

[Sac State]

So go ahead bro, post up your information. Make sure you post real world links like I did though or else its just words. I really shouldn't reply to this because posts like yours are most always bluster and pontification and facts be damned, but I am giving you a chance here to prove that a TE with KDSS is worth the same on trade or retail as a TE without KDSS.

Sorry again about your FJ TT TOB. (just wanted to mention it again just in case)

As much as you'd like, I am not your bro.

Official Kelley Blue Book New Car and Used Car Prices and Values

How hard is that? Choose a 2012 Trail and tell me if the appraisal configurator has an option for KDSS equipped. This is the first elementary school step.

I win.