Sac State
New member
winner, winner chicken dinner!
KDSS or not? Why?
- Thread starter PitbullRescuer
- Start date
winner, winner chicken dinner!
1engineer
Moderator
Hmmm. What happened to the tough "I am living in the real world, not books, and can first-hand give you the black book, CarMax, dealer load, actual market etc. price on what REAL WORLD people are PAYING, not a belief in the fairy book" guy huh?
Just wanted to mention how sorry I am to have your FJ TT TOB. Just thought I would mention it.
Oh, here you go: 2011 Toyota 4Runner Utility 4D Trail Edition 4WD Prices, Values & 4Runner Utility 4D Trail Edition 4WD Price Specs | NADAguides
I know that vehicle, house and basically any product is priced at what the market will bear. Units with KDSS under 5 years old get a premium because they are what the market will bear. Simple.
Sac State
New member
Do you just reserve being an ahole on Thursday or is this pretty much you all the time?
[URL=http://s561.photobucket.com/user/pbn64/media/FJpbn_zps18dbe372.jpg.html]
[/URL]Didn't know you also had an FJ with the same problem. :driving:
Antman
Elite Member
No matter how many times you type that it still cracks me up...
He's like this all the time. That's why we love him. You'll get used to it, or not.:snacker:
1engineer
Moderator
Just on Thursdays lol. It's all good man and seriously, have a great day! I am getting ready to go for a 12 mile ride on a cloud free 80 degree evening!
Oh, I'm sorry about your FJ TT TOB. If I had one I would give it to you haha! Just kidding! Have a great evening!
philsey
New member
Wot? You thought THAT was bad?
FrontRange4Runner
New member
I was hoping for a little more than KBB to be honest.
Hawaiian4runner
New member
You just don't get it!. His KBB is first hand/real world. I think his real name is Kelley. And oh yeah. HE WON.
gm350reratliff
New member
I don't have much experience with KDSS off road, but on road, it keeps you amazingly stable when taking corners.
However, there are 3 reasons I would never own another vehicle with it again.
1. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/160261-14-te-guys-weird-noise.html
2. $1,500 to replace the rear actuator and bleed the system (@80k miles)
3. Most places don't have the tools and experience to properly troubleshoot and work on that system. Not all Toyota dealerships can work on it, and if you do find one that does, the tech likely has very little experience working on it. You are pretty much stuck going to a Toyota or Lexus dealership.
Although I've never owned a KDSS equiped vehicle, these are some of the very same reasons I ordered my TE without KDSS. I do realize there is probably a very small percentage of folks that will actually have this kind of trouble but I don't want to push my luck. I like things simple anyway.
This comparison is meaningless. Find out at the value of a standard Trail and compare to a Trail with KDSS to determine the added value of the option.
I did already with my Edmunds comparison. Depending on whether you're looking at trade-in value, private sale, or dealer pricing, the value added from the "Adjustable Stabilizer Bars F/R" was $800-1200... all from the same 2012 TE with 40k as the test sample.
LandCruiser
New member
KDSS is a hydraulic ram that firms up the suspension during cornering--someone described it as an "active sway bar" and that's pretty much what it is. It's always on. It's always working. It's not an "off road system" as some dumb shit Toyota dealers who don't know their ass from a Party Mode switch sell it.
So what's wrong with KDSS?
-it makes lifting the truck more expensive and complex (a competent shop will have no problems with it, but will charge you more)
-it WILL break or at least need major expensive servicing if GX470 owners' experience has been in any way accurate
-any fancy sway bar system just limits your articulation off road--that's why the few remaining off road vehicles either have sway bar disconnect or you can just remove them altogether
-aggressive driving and cornering isn't a reason to buy a truck, and system that makes it handle more crisply while sacrificing off-road-ability is questionable
So what's wrong with KDSS?
-it makes lifting the truck more expensive and complex (a competent shop will have no problems with it, but will charge you more)
-it WILL break or at least need major expensive servicing if GX470 owners' experience has been in any way accurate
-any fancy sway bar system just limits your articulation off road--that's why the few remaining off road vehicles either have sway bar disconnect or you can just remove them altogether
-aggressive driving and cornering isn't a reason to buy a truck, and system that makes it handle more crisply while sacrificing off-road-ability is questionable
1engineer
Moderator
It actually gives you more articulation off road but the bump stops are in the same location so max travel would be the same regardless. But it will keep the wheels on the ground longer up to that point.
LandCruiser
New member
I wasn't comparing it to a non-KDSS 4runner, I was weighing it against a sway bar disconnect system like the Rubi, or just taking them off altogether.
chmura
New member
I'm always on a fence deciding between an KDSS equipped 4runner vs a non equipped one.
If I were to purchase a new 4runner I would probably get a non KDSS 4runner Trail non premium. I like to keep things simple and avoid costly repairs in the future. My 4th gen 4runners sunroof rattles a little but so that's another reason for me not wanting a sunroof.
If I were to purchase a new 4runner I would probably get a non KDSS 4runner Trail non premium. I like to keep things simple and avoid costly repairs in the future. My 4th gen 4runners sunroof rattles a little but so that's another reason for me not wanting a sunroof.
STX4Runner
New member
I think its a pretty good system when all things are considered. A true sway bar disconnect system would be ideal, but Toyota (or any manufacturer)dosen't build vehicles for the 1% (or less) who actually go hard core off road. I would bet even most Rubicon's out there never really see gnarly enough terrain to actually need sway bar disconnects. Also, consider the 4Runner's target audience vs. a Rubicon's. 4Runner buyer is most likely more concered with on road experience, with off road being secondary (T4R.org members not counted). Rubicon buyer may be in the same boat too if they are not hard core off roaders, but they expect a crappy ride from what is essentially a metal shoebox on wheels, so they are willing to trade ride comfort for the Rubicon's looks if they are not off roaders.
I think I remember reading on here somewhere that about 4% of 4Runners made since 2010 are Trail Editions, which at approximately 50,000 4Runners sold per year since 2010 equals about 8,000 Trail Editions through year end 2013. How many of those are actually using their vehicles in situations where sway bar disconnects vs. KDSS would be truly beneficial. I would guess very few based on the fact that I have seen 10x more stock Trail Editions (even down to keeping the crappy stock tires) than modified over the past few years.
Just like a Rubicon, a TRail Edition is a great base to start with and modify to your needs.
I think I remember reading on here somewhere that about 4% of 4Runners made since 2010 are Trail Editions, which at approximately 50,000 4Runners sold per year since 2010 equals about 8,000 Trail Editions through year end 2013. How many of those are actually using their vehicles in situations where sway bar disconnects vs. KDSS would be truly beneficial. I would guess very few based on the fact that I have seen 10x more stock Trail Editions (even down to keeping the crappy stock tires) than modified over the past few years.
Just like a Rubicon, a TRail Edition is a great base to start with and modify to your needs.
Last edited:
Kdss
I must have missed something, if you are not going to "wheel" your 4Runner, why are you buying a Trail? There is a lot of money tied up in the locker, terrain control etc. The KDSS is awesome if you rock crawl, jeep guys are always amazed at the articulation. Put the money in leather and other options.
I must have missed something, if you are not going to "wheel" your 4Runner, why are you buying a Trail? There is a lot of money tied up in the locker, terrain control etc. The KDSS is awesome if you rock crawl, jeep guys are always amazed at the articulation. Put the money in leather and other options.
scott78945
Member
I find this thread interesting. I am in the market for a Trail Premium for the very reason that I like the look of it better than the SR5 and the chrome on the Limited it just too much for my taste. I was torn between getting the KDSS and it seems that as long as I plan on purchasing an extended warranty, most likely, then I should be all set. Things to think about though...I hear that the KDSS is better on road so I was going to go for it. I loved my X-reas on my 2005 Sport and can only get that on the limited now. I know its not the same....
