KDSS Question...Sorry

I

itsthelaw

New member
I'm planning to pick up a 2014+ 4runner and start a mild build. I am leaning to the TE Premium, because the sunroof and Softex makes my wife happy. She will ultimately drive this vehicle a lot on the street, but I want my build too. I really struggle to justify the TRD Pro extra cost...even if I could find one.

If I buy a TEP without KDSS, can I create a similar on and off-road feel with an aftermarket suspension that is not going to break my bank. I have driven a KDSS model and like the on-road feel, and my wife would as well. I have a built 2dr Wrangler that I wheel, so I am really looking for more of an Overland feel and performance. I want a smooth off-road ride with soft landings and the ability to cover distances at moderate speed. I'm not looking for a rock crawler. I assume the TRD Pro has this feel.

Thanks for your help. I am not trying to fan the KDSS flames, but looking for a specific type of performance. :humble:
 
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to answer your question... YES.

5100s on all 4 corners greatly improves it.

6112/5160 is popular..

or go ICON and dont look back
 
ST1FLER said:
to answer your question... YES.

5100s on all 4 corners greatly improves it.

6112/5160 is popular..

or go ICON and dont look back
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If I can find SR5 with the roof and seats, is an aftermarket locker as good. I do want the locker, and I get all the considerations about warranty.
 
I would say the answer is sort of. You should be able to create about any type of off-road suspension feel you wish. Same with on-road. It's pretty tricky to do both at the same time. It's a lot easier to get similar or better offroad performance. It's very hard to match the street performance.

There are many aftermarket setups that people are happy with on and off road.

It's a cool system and IMO a pretty good value. You cannot spend $1750 more to upgrade an aftermarket suspension and match its road manners. So for example moving up one "stage" of ICON will not replicate KDSS for the same dollars. You probably can build a better offroad suspension than stock for $1750 in parts though. So, I guess I'd say for example nonKDSS with FOX 2.5 shocks will outperform KDSS and stock shocks in the dirt, but not on the road. Fox 2.5s with KDSS will be better than Fox 2.5s with remote reservoirs and UCAs for most uses.

Good luck!
 
itsthelaw said:
If I can find SR5 with the roof and seats, is an aftermarket locker as good. I do want the locker, and I get all the considerations about warranty.
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This question is also hard to answer. An ARB is not as reliable as a factory locker. It will need to be rebuilt every 10 years or so as the internal air seals fail. Also if you swamp the compressor you're SOL. If it's in the engine bay and you do deep water crossings it can be a problem. There is an argument in favor of ARB that they are stronger - which isn't well established in this application either way - and that they engage and disengage faster.

There is an EATON brand e-locker that looks to be the best of the 3 options, but you'll have to order it from Australia as I'm not sure there are any USA distributors. It works very similarly to an ARB but uses an electromagnet rather than air. So it eliminates the issues with air actuation. If I were going aftermarket, that would be my first choice. It's about the same cost as an ARB plus compressor. So it's expensive. I hope ARB will at some point decide to move in the same direction.
 
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Id say ARB and EATON are both as good if not better. BUT the factory locker is covered under warranty.... so its a trade off. I have run ARB in all previous builds and LOVE LOVE LOVE them!
 
KDSS on TEP

The KDSS system has stiffer anti-sway bars that improve cornering and rough road conditions over a non-KDSS 4Runner. This is usefull for pavement and mild off-road, dirt road conditions. KDSS also improves wheel articulation at slow speeds over moguls, holes, rocks and bumps. You can't duplicate that with any typical off-road aftermarket products.

For off-road suspension that improves rock crawling or body clearance such as approach and departure angles then increased lift is the solution. You can easily do a mild 2" to 3" lift with KDSS. Folks here have said that for long travel lifts the KDSS makes it harder to install or the KDSS needs to be disconnected, as I recall. And you don't need KDSS with long travel for off-road capabilities. But long travel and big lifts increase wind resistance, lower gas mileage, raise the center of gravity and detract from street and highway driving due to the raised center of gravity.

For what you describe, KDSS offers the best ride, IMO.
 
I have a non Kdss 2014 trail that I put 5100 Bilsteins on. It definately improved on road and off road manners. That being said my buddy has a Kdss equiped trail and after my upgrade I can't tell the difference and the Billies were alot cheaper.
 
off-road runner said:
Why not just get KDSS option instead of trying to recreate it? JMO. And TEP will have rear diff lock.
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The one that is currently available has KDSS, so I may just get it. If it was to fail outside of warranty, which I think is unlikely under very high miles, I would probably just fix it. Anyone want to buy a BMW x5?
 
It seems like the TRD Pro was build for the type of off road I want to do. Do they not put in KDSS to keep price down, give it a less complex system, or build it more for off road? I doubt it is price. I've never driven a Pro, but wish I could compare them.
 
TRDPro is kinda viewed by many to be an appearance package. Different front grille garnish and black rims are what stands out. Suppose to be an inch higher up front. Auto headlights.
I don't think it is any more capable off road than a Trail and vice versa. Some people may argue that KDSS may give an advantage in certain off-road situations and some will argue the 1" of clearance loss on KDSS equiped vehicles will hinder it in other situations yadayadayada.
It sounds like you want a TEP with moonroof and maybe future mods can be done to get the "pro" look.
Don't worry about KDSS breakage, doesn't seam common.
 
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itsthelaw said:
It seems like the TRD Pro was build for the type of off road I want to do. Do they not put in KDSS to keep price down, give it a less complex system, or build it more for off road? I doubt it is price. I've never driven a Pro, but wish I could compare them.
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It is my opinion - and only my opinion - from reading about the TRD Pro's suspension package, that they left the KDSS off of it because the very type of driving you describe is in fact what it is meant for. KDSS by its nature and design is intended to detect body roll and stop it at normal highway speeds. While off road it detects slow up/down movement of individual corners and allows the suspension to flex. It could very well be confused into not knowing whether it wants to keep your vehicle flat or allow it to flex at the moderate speeds the Pro suspension was designed for. All of this is just conjecture from my perspective. Watch some Youtube videos about KDSS and decide for yourself.
 
In a similar situation ordered a 2016 trail with KDSS and will install Pro rims, new tires, frontrunner rack, and sliders from day one.
Because of our camping gear I know I will eventually want the 2 inch icon (or similar) springs for extra load capacity. Which also means needing to lift the front.
I'm also able to get a 7 year warranty for $1,200. (On the fence on that one). Worried any aftermarket lift will negate any suspension issues I may have as they will point to the lift to blame.
I am getting a slight discount on the trail, but would pay MSRP on the Pro (Hawaii). A Pro (although would come with a factory covered lift), isn't worth the additional 7k. I am eyeing up a future Icon stage 2 or 3.
 
3wbdriver said:
It is my opinion - and only my opinion - from reading about the TRD Pro's suspension package, that they left the KDSS off of it because the very type of driving you describe is in fact what it is meant for. KDSS by its nature and design is intended to detect body roll and stop it at normal highway speeds. While off road it detects slow up/down movement of individual corners and allows the suspension to flex. It could very well be confused into not knowing whether it wants to keep your vehicle flat or allow it to flex at the moderate speeds the Pro suspension was designed for. All of this is just conjecture from my perspective. Watch some Youtube videos about KDSS and decide for yourself.
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The pre-production models had KDSS though.

From what we've all been hit hard on here lately with all the bash threads is that all the TRD PRO is, is an appearance package on a TE.

I think a few on here stated the main reason it was left off was truthfully cost. Instead of going from the ground up, the TRD group slapped some go fast stickers, and had custom tuned billies made up special with a little added lift up front. Something that could be easily added at the port.

The performance difference between a KDSS equipped TE and a TRD Pro is, this is just my speculation, marginal/negligible at best. I can't imagine KDSS confusion at moderate speeds was really a consideration. Maybe if it we're Toyota Corp doing the actual design, and not TRD.

That's just what I've been reading/seeing though. I could be wrong.
 
The Waco Kid said:
The pre-production models had KDSS though.

From what we've all been hit hard on here lately with all the bash threads is that all the TRD PRO is, is an appearance package on a TE.

I think a few on here stated the main reason it was left off was truthfully cost. Instead of going from the ground up, the TRD group slapped some go fast stickers, and had custom tuned billies made up special with a little added lift up front. Something that could be easily added at the port.

The performance difference between a KDSS equipped TE and a TRD Pro is, this is just my speculation, marginal/negligible at best. I can't imagine KDSS confusion at moderate speeds was really a consideration. Maybe if it we're Toyota Corp doing the actual design, and not TRD.

That's just what I've been reading/seeing though. I could be wrong.
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You're right. There is no KDSS confusion. It's not a *smart* system. It's a passive hydraulic connection between the two sway bars. It only works in two ways - on or off. The valves shut at 12mph so it's always "off" or in other words the sway bars are rigidly mounted and work like heavy sway bars above 12mph. Below 12mph the valves open and the fluid flows. In that mode the system balances pressure and allows more articulation and stabilizes the body position between the two axles. When Toyota chose a version to run the Baja as a factory race truck - it had KDSS. And I'm pretty confident the Toyota race team had any options they wanted since they built a custom suspension. My guess is that what they really wanted was big heavy sway bars. I doubt it operated under 12mph very often.

I think it was a price point issue. They didn't want the TRD Pro to cost more than a Limited. A base model GX460 is about 49k. It has a v8 and KDSS. If you get close to that figure - many buyers will jump to the GX. That said, I am surprised that it wasn't standard.
 
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