KDSS(TE) vs Non KDSS (SR5)
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Thai
Elite Member
Yes, by virtue of it having thicker anti-roll bars. Off-road, it improves wheel articulation over non-KDSS 4runners. Best of both words IMO.
eddiebx
New member
Is it better at cornering? Yes definitely. But as far as how much better, I think it's best for you to test drive both back to back and decide for yourself. It's way too subjective of a topic to leave up to reading about it on the internet. For me personally, I test drove the KDSS equipped model first and was sold instantly, I didn't even need to test the SR5 after that. Yep it was that good 
Thanks guys. I guess KDSS it is. I like the body color molding and white color. Will there be a white TE in 2014?
harper7
Senior Member
And I'm sure you have the RTI scores to back this up??
Sundog7121
Member
Just did a quick search of RTI scores on the forum. Uh oh. :help:
I do, however, love my KDSS on the highway. At 75 or so. With curves. Can't speak to the articulation yet.
I do, however, love my KDSS on the highway. At 75 or so. With curves. Can't speak to the articulation yet.
Thai
Elite Member
Blah blah...harper, sorry dude, you remain ignorant of KDSS. I know that you really want to believe that KDSS is all hype since your 4runner did not come with it...but, it is the real deal.
For more info, please see this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/128728-no-kdss-fj-cruiser-3.html
Read my posts on pages 3-4, then read this post: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/1226439-post64.html
Page 5 is also interesting to read and has further info on KDSS (post #73).
Harper, anything else to add? Last time, you went dead silent after facts came out.... And i am sure that Harper7 will point out that i am a mere Prius and minivan owner...and what do i know?! According to a few SR5 and Limited owners, ONLY mall crawlers get TE with KDSS. REAL boys get SR5 and Limited!
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westwind77
New member
:behindsofa:
1engineer
Moderator
I had a 2011 SR5 for 66K miles. I currently have a 2012 TE with KDSS. I have driven both on and off road. I do not rock crawl and my off roading is usually dirt trails and fire roads. I am not going to go into technical detail as that was done in the thread link [MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] thoughtfully provided above.
KDSS definitely reduces body roll on highway turns compared to a stock SR5 suspension. That's not to say the SR5 did not perform well, as evidenced by my mileage in 21 months.
Off road, I honestly cannot tell the difference from the SR5. Again my off roading is not extreme. Lots of ruts and washboard with lots of hills too. It is usually a low speed affair.
The suspension geometry is the same on both with stops located at the same place. As far as RTI scores? Give me a dime and I can give you 50 extra points by using that dime to push the valve core and deflate the tires a few psi. Read the link above for the tech reasoning.
KDSS definitely reduces body roll on highway turns compared to a stock SR5 suspension. That's not to say the SR5 did not perform well, as evidenced by my mileage in 21 months.
Off road, I honestly cannot tell the difference from the SR5. Again my off roading is not extreme. Lots of ruts and washboard with lots of hills too. It is usually a low speed affair.
The suspension geometry is the same on both with stops located at the same place. As far as RTI scores? Give me a dime and I can give you 50 extra points by using that dime to push the valve core and deflate the tires a few psi. Read the link above for the tech reasoning.
KCcarguy
New member
- It's the same truck. Even if there is a difference in articulation I'm sure it's small and would make little difference on the trail. I haven't seen any threads where a KDSS equipped TE left everyone else behind because it was such a superior vehicle.
-I have test-driven a KDSS equipped 4r and the on-road performance is far superior with KDSS. I think this is the best reason to buy it.
-You can fix the handling of a SR5 with aftermarket suspension, but it will cost about the same as the KDSS option and will decrease rather than raise resale value.
-I have yet to see a guy with a KDSS equipped TE regret his purchase. I can't say the same for SR5 owners (including myself). You will spend more time and money "fixing" an SR5 than just buying a TE to begin with.
-I have test-driven a KDSS equipped 4r and the on-road performance is far superior with KDSS. I think this is the best reason to buy it.
-You can fix the handling of a SR5 with aftermarket suspension, but it will cost about the same as the KDSS option and will decrease rather than raise resale value.
-I have yet to see a guy with a KDSS equipped TE regret his purchase. I can't say the same for SR5 owners (including myself). You will spend more time and money "fixing" an SR5 than just buying a TE to begin with.
rfuree11
New member
I've got a 4th gen and am really thinking of trading it in just because of the KDSS. I'm just going to leave this video here:
My 2010 4Runner Trail Edition w /KDSS going Anza Borrego State Park Video Clips - YouTube
And I would bet good money that a KDSS equipped 4runner will put up better RTI scores. The entire point of the RTI ramp is to measure articulation and wheel droop, which is why people that still have sway bars disconnect them prior to doing the ramp. KDSS just automates it.
My 2010 4Runner Trail Edition w /KDSS going Anza Borrego State Park Video Clips - YouTube
And I would bet good money that a KDSS equipped 4runner will put up better RTI scores. The entire point of the RTI ramp is to measure articulation and wheel droop, which is why people that still have sway bars disconnect them prior to doing the ramp. KDSS just automates it.
JohnnyT
New member
Thoughtfully? I don't know if that's the word I'd choose to describe it.
phillyd2
Senior Member
For the record I'm the one who called them, well.....hetero challenged. And still standing by the statement :moony:
RocketGuy
New member
Yes!
After 10 months, I traded 2011 SR5 for a 2011 Trail with KDSS because I couldn't stand the boat like ride of the SR5. The trail is MUCH better on road and off. The bigger difference is on road.
I am not a habitual car trader. I owned my previous vehicles 8-10 years each.
Guy
After 10 months, I traded 2011 SR5 for a 2011 Trail with KDSS because I couldn't stand the boat like ride of the SR5. The trail is MUCH better on road and off. The bigger difference is on road.
I am not a habitual car trader. I owned my previous vehicles 8-10 years each.
Guy
Thai
Elite Member
Yeah I got people's panties all twisted...a few sr5 and low-esteemed Limited folks. Its all good.
eddiebx
New member
Harper, anything else to add? Last time, you went dead silent after facts came out.... And i am sure that Harper7 will point out that i am a mere Prius and minivan owner...and what do i know?! According to a few SR5 and Limited owners, ONLY mall crawlers get TE with KDSS. REAL boys get SR5 and Limited!
Some people just don't have the energy to argue over the internet like you do, and do so well might I add. Certainly doesn't mean anyone admitted defeat IMO
Thai
Elite Member
Some people just don't have the energy to argue over the internet like you do, and do so well might I add. Certainly doesn't mean anyone admitted defeat IMO
Well, if you know harper, then you know that he does not let anything go that easy!
Thai
Elite Member
I don't know KC. Remember, TE also comes with a rear locker along with better clearances. Given decent tires and equal drivers, I would bet that a TE could leave a Limited or SR5 behind over some technical trails...due to the rear locker, better clearances, and/or KDSS.
Look, in off-roading, you want any advantage that you can get, big or small. Why do you think Jeep Rubicon comes with front axle disco's or why Land Rover makes such a big deal of articulation? KDSS allows the suspension to flex easier. And when a suspension flexes well, this means that you rely less on traction control and sudden loss of traction (aka kill momentum). (The addition of a rear locker for TE is just icing on the cake!) KDSS is not a technology that came out recently...it has been proven worldwide in Dakar-like races. The combination of stability on-road and improve articulation off-road is the holy grail for some.
And as noted by Edmunds insightful detailing of GX460 suspension and many other publications (FourWheeler as noted in link), KDSS works...and it works very well, both on-road AND off-road. It is a solid concept.
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Thai
Elite Member
From the link above, here is an old article:
"Since we liked the Lexus last year, it is no surprise that we liked it even better this year, since it has greater articulation. Sure, at first some of us thought the KDSS system was a gimmick. But then we ramped the GX and found that increased articulation was notable and, on a 20-degree ramp, provided a 519 RTI, compared to an RTI score of 428 on a GX 470 without KDSS. This increased articulation is readily apparent on the trail, where the flex of the rear suspension helps the Lexus stay planted on the ground so that it can find traction."
Read more: Four Wheeler: 2004 Four Wheeler of the Year
Note, an almost 100 point difference in RTI is a big deal. And as noted by FW, the increased flex is readily apparent on the trail. Now, harper7 et al. may argue that FourWheeler knows nothing about off-roading...but that's another story.
"Since we liked the Lexus last year, it is no surprise that we liked it even better this year, since it has greater articulation. Sure, at first some of us thought the KDSS system was a gimmick. But then we ramped the GX and found that increased articulation was notable and, on a 20-degree ramp, provided a 519 RTI, compared to an RTI score of 428 on a GX 470 without KDSS. This increased articulation is readily apparent on the trail, where the flex of the rear suspension helps the Lexus stay planted on the ground so that it can find traction."
Read more: Four Wheeler: 2004 Four Wheeler of the Year
Note, an almost 100 point difference in RTI is a big deal. And as noted by FW, the increased flex is readily apparent on the trail. Now, harper7 et al. may argue that FourWheeler knows nothing about off-roading...but that's another story.
