KDSS worth it?

[cwrose]

Any issues with the KDSS in extreme cold environments? Like -40F or colder for extended periods?

 

[Ryan_S]

Any issues with the KDSS in extreme cold environments? Like -40F or colder for extended periods?

It is just two hydraulic cylinders, I imagine you would have problems with your shocks as well if the cold was to affect the kdss cylinders. Even then they would probably just be "sluggish".

 

[cwrose]

It is just two hydraulic cylinders, I imagine you would have problems with your shocks as well if the cold was to affect the kdss cylinders. Even then they would probably just be "sluggish".

Thanks! That's what I figured. Just wasn't sure if anybody has experienced any cold related issues.

I still find that my FJ62 does the best in the extreme cold. No doodads or anything to foul up. Now if I could just get it to blow hot air.

 

[Koz]

From my little knowledge of how suspension works, i am not sure that you're right. If that is the case, then why do sports cars need anti-roll bars for?!! They could just stiffen the shocks and springs and throw away the anti-roll bars...obviously, this is NOT the case.

Shocks, springs, and anti-roll bars have separate & distinct function that work together to give an end product (ride & handling competence). Coilovers and lifts only address one issue of the suspension...it is not an answer to everything regarding ride & handling.

A stiff coilover or lift kit may help with handling (to some degree), but at what cost to your kidneys?? Ride comfort over bumps or highway expansion joints? The nice thing about the Trail Edition stock suspension is that it rides smoothly on-road all the while being stable around corners. Bumps & highway joints all get absorbed nicely without jolting passengers. But, the thick anti-roll bars (in KDSS 4runners) allows for better stability around corners. You can't get this balance with most (if not all) aftermarket suspension systems, unless you're prepared to spend mega bucks. KDSS is all automatic (aka invisible in how it works)...so, you don't have to get out of your truck at the beginning of the trail and crawl underneath with a wrench to disconnect the sway bars (as you would do with an aftermarket anti-roll bar discos).

BTW, KDSS is a PROVEN technology in off-road racing ALL OVER THE WORLD! It is NOT a 2010 technology that just came out...it has been around for many years! So, durability nor reliability is not gonna be its weakness.

*****My soap box...why is everyone so quick to dismiss the stock setup?? You guys seem to think that Toyota engineers are a bunch of idiots who can't design a decent setup. Instead, you guys trust small companies who have tight budget (and knowledge in some cases!) and only designs one-size-fit-all kits...and in most cases, these small outfits don't even specialize in Toyota's, much less 4runners! Good luck relying on these folks...i will stick to the manufacturer's engineers. :hatsoff:

I agree 100%!

I can tell you KDSS makes a huge difference on and off road. The difference is much more noticeable on road. the GX (5300 lbs) with KDSS has almost no plowing/leaning in high speed turns compared to a V8 T4R (4500 lbs) with XREAS and rear air susp. It also effects the low speed agility.

I do believe that Toyota has achieved an incredible balance of smooth plush ride with the agility of a tight suspension, by controlling every aspect of the suspension with the perfect blend of components (KDSS, AVS and rear air bags). I believe that any modification to this setup would compromise the balance of on and off road performance. It's a shame this setup (components) is/are not offered in the Limited 4Runner.

KDSS is worth every penny!

Koz

 

[mdrudy]

I'm also trying to decide if KDSS really helps with road handling. I have not had the chance to test drive one yet bc hard to find!

Wiki said that KDSS will NOT engage in normal driving conditions, etc. (see below) And I know that sometimes wiki is right and sometimes not. I have no idea and wanted to put it out there.




Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The first vehicle to feature KDSS, the Lexus GX 470.
The Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS) technology was employed initially in the Lexus GX 470, and subsequently the 200 Series Toyota Land Cruiser. The system was invented and developed by Kinetic Pty Ltd, a small R&D company based in Dunsborough, Western Australia.[1] It optimally adjusts front and rear stabilizers based on a set of interconnected hydraulic cylinders. The interconnection is made up of hydraulic piping and a control cylinder which is located at the frame rail.[2] KDSS, which is fully mechanical, can disengage the stabilizer bars (the bars are jointed, allowing movement independent of one another).[2] This system will not engage during normal driving conditions, when hydraulic pressure is equal. In off-road conditions, KDSS activates when it senses that a wheel has dropped.[2]
The Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System was first available as an option on the model year 2004 Lexus GX 470, a sport utility vehicle that is only sold in the United States, and based roughly on the 120 Series Land Cruiser Prado. The system was also introduced in similar form on the 2008 Toyota Land Cruiser. For the 2008 Lexus LX 570, an electro-mechanical suspension was employed, retaining the function of the KDSS design but adding electronic components.[2] It is rumored that the same system will be used on the 150 series Land Cruiser Prado which is due into Australia around November 15, 2009.

 

[Ryan_S]

What do you mean by "engage" though? Have you watched the YouTube video of it in action?

The benefit to on road handling comes from the giant sway bars, which don't need to engage to do anything.

Edit: actually read the wiki.… by engage they mean "allow the sway bars to 'disconnect' giving more travel".

 

[453030]

I'm also trying to decide if KDSS really helps with road handling. I have not had the chance to test drive one yet bc hard to find!

Wiki said that KDSS will NOT engage in normal driving conditions, etc. (see below) And I know that sometimes wiki is right and sometimes not. I have no idea and wanted to put it out there.

Read Ryan's reply above.

Next, make a point of test driving one. Forget Wiki, forget reviews, forget this forum. It is your 40k. Drive the SR5 and a KDSS Trail and if you can't tell the difference then save yourself some money and get the cheapest Runner that suits your needs.

 

[mdrudy]

Yeah, I watched the video and it was pretty slick. And yes, I agree that engage may actually mean 'disengage'.

I can't find one anywhere close to me to test drive. Will keep looking but my current truck is getting close to becoming a much bigger problem. I'm not in a rush but need to move fairly quickly.

Thanks again.

 

[453030]

I can't find one anywhere close to me to test drive. Will keep looking but my current truck is getting close to becoming a much bigger problem. I'm not in a rush but need to move fairly quickly.

Thanks again.

In this case you will have to trust us then. The KDSS vastly improves on-road ride of the Trail edition 4Runner. So if the Trail is the model you are interested in, and you don't have immediate plans for an after market suspension system, make sure you get KDSS.

 

[JustLeft]

I just bought a TE last week and test drove it along with an SR5. I agree with you, definitely liked the ride of the TE better than the SR5. Whether it was the KDSS or the sway bars that made the difference, I don't know. I liked the way handled and based my purchase on that.

The TEs are hard to find. Not sure why that is.

In this case you will have to trust us then. The KDSS vastly improves on-road ride of the Trail edition 4Runner. So if the Trail is the model you are interested in, and you don't have immediate plans for an after market suspension system, make sure you get KDSS.

 

[Ryan_S]

Whether it was the KDSS or the sway bars that made the difference, I don't know.

Um… the sway bars are the KDSS.

TE w/o KDSS = SR5

 

[mdrudy]

I I did drive an 08 Sport with Xreas and it was considerably bettern than the sr5 IMO (handling, roll, stiffness). Does the KDSS equate, roughly, to the xreas? ...at least in terms of on road?

And I think the TE's are so hard to find b/c only 3 or 4% of 4runners are trails. And it seems like a lot of dealers don't exactly list them as trail models which makes them even harder to find.

Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I will be super happy in ANY 4runner but really interested in a little better road ride.

 

[JustLeft]

True, my bad for not being clear. There is discussion whether KDSS is active while on road, which I believe it is, but I'm not a Toyota engineer. My understanding is that KDSS is like hydraulics with the system connecting to the sway bars. Even if KDSS is not 'active' while on road, I noticed a significant difference in the handling between the TE and SR5. So perhaps the question is 'active' or 'inactive' KDSS better than the SR5...

Um… the sway bars are the KDSS.

TE w/o KDSS = SR5

 

[JustLeft]

I have an 11 TE, owned a 4th gen with REAS, and my son has an 08 with REAS. On road I felt the REAS had a similar feel to KDSS. This is from memory. I did not test drive a limited with REAS when I got my TE.

I I did drive an 08 Sport with Xreas and it was considerably bettern than the sr5 IMO (handling, roll, stiffness). Does the KDSS equate, roughly, to the xreas? ...at least in terms of on road?

And I think the TE's are so hard to find b/c only 3 or 4% of 4runners are trails. And it seems like a lot of dealers don't exactly list them as trail models which makes them even harder to find.

Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I will be super happy in ANY 4runner but really interested in a little better road ride.

 

[bacci]

Kdss

KDSS is extremely hard to find, I dont understand it. After much negotiating and looking around I have decided its worth the cost and the wait. you kinda get screwed when you have to order one and lose out on the deals, but If im paying that much for a new truck that should last me another ten years, I want it the way i want it. Its not that much more in the scheme of the overall cost.

 

[simplemind]

I have a 2010 TE w/ KDSS, which I have never used in almost 4 yrs., however I do like the way it rides and handles, so I think the TE w/ KDSS has something to do with that.
Fast forward to today...I'm at the dealer looking at a new TE/Premium mostly identical to my 2010. The sticker does not state KDSS anywhere I could see. HOWEVER it has all the traction controls (knobs/switches) that my 2010 has. It does state offroad package and Bilstein. What's up with that? Does it have KDSS or not (the CA was clueless).

 

[jbstrd]

I have a 2010 TE w/ KDSS, which I have never used in almost 4 yrs., however I do like the way it rides and handles, so I think the TE w/ KDSS has something to do with that.
Fast forward to today...I'm at the dealer looking at a new TE/Premium mostly identical to my 2010. The sticker does not state KDSS anywhere I could see. HOWEVER it has all the traction controls (knobs/switches) that my 2010 has. It does state offroad package and Bilstein. What's up with that? Does it have KDSS or not (the CA was clueless).

Look underneath the front. Does it have the swaybar end links connected to the front lower control arms? You should also be able to see the hydraulic piston near the driver front wheel well.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Here is 1 reason KDSS isn't worth it. At 83k miles the KDSS on my wife's GX470 is seeping at the rear piston.

To replace this piston and to bleed the system is $1500!!!

 

[jbstrd]

Here is 1 reason KDSS isn't worth it. At 83k miles the KDSS on my wife's GX470 is seeping at the rear piston.

To replace this piston and to bleed the system is $1500!!!

That's when I would go MT Long travel, disconnect the KDSS, and deal with the dash light. Much cheaper:becky:

 

[simplemind]

Look underneath the front. Does it have the swaybar end links connected to the front lower control arms? You should also be able to see the hydraulic piston near the driver front wheel well.

I didn't look underneath, however is it possible that it has all of the controls, Crawl, Multi-terrain select, etc., w/o having KDSS?