1engineer
Moderator
You are a unique fellow to do what you do and still run sway bars!Damn, I guess I'm not a hard core off roader then because my KDSS is still hooked up and works just fine.
KDSS worth it?
- Thread starter diver110
- Start date
eddiebx
New member
Perhaps you need to amend your post to read "hard-core modders", lol. After all, it's the incompatibility of the KDSS with extensive modding that makes it worthless; not how hard core you use the truck
Intruder
New member
I'd say you're fine running KDSS off road until you decide to go long travel. Mine will stay on until that point, or if the KDSS fails before then I'll just accelerate my long travel schedule.
KDSS flex...
IMGP4000.jpg by BurningChr0me, on Flickr
IMGP3999.jpg by BurningChr0me, on Flickr
KDSS flex...
IMGP4000.jpg by BurningChr0me, on Flickr
IMGP3999.jpg by BurningChr0me, on Flickr
simplemind
New member
Sure is, nice to know there is a real difference. Thanks!
simplemind
New member
Showoff! :boink:
LandCruiser
New member
Damn, I guess I'm not a hard core off roader then because my KDSS is still hooked up and works just fine.
I just like the articulation of a SAS with no sway bars. It's like a mule with ADD on Aderall, staring at all the little rocks. It makes driving over the bad stuff easier because the truck always has all four wheels planted, and the travel with a SAS rig with no sway bars is ridiculous. I can also appreciate that such a vehicle isn't something that is in any way as driveable around town as my TE, but there's a price for everything.
Honestly I haven't really wheeled either of my 4Runners. I think if it came down to it, I wouldn't know how.
Intruder
New member
But it's still flexing pretty good. I can't think of a single situation I've been in where I said "damn, if only I didn't have my sway bars on I could've made it". With a long travel setup it's a totally different story.
It's just different. You choose different lines and still have lots of fun.
Whiplash Willy
New member
An update...Lolrax finally got his KDSS Clunk fixed (Exact same symptoms as mine). It was the rear swaybar bushing between the KDSS piston and the swaybar. Part # 48818-60020. It seems weird that a $20 bushing would fail in 50k miles..... Here is his post for anyone interested:
Club Lexus Forums - View Single Post - Rear Suspension Rattle
I am going to replace the 2 rear bushings first before I do anything else, and if that helps, replace the 4 in the front. If that does the trick, I may be able to hold on to that seeping $1300 AVS suspension for alittle longer!
eddiebx
New member
Nice that it's a cheap fix!
If you do end up doing the replacement yourself the rear bushings are pretty easy to access and put back together with a little bit of muscle; but the front ones are another story. It's going to require some more finesse to get the bar back into place. Not positive, but maybe you can use the KDSS lift install thread I made as a guide to disconnecting and reconnecting the front and rear sway bars. Hopefully it's similar enough. Good luck
Whiplash Willy
New member
Nice that it's a cheap fix!
If you do end up doing the replacement yourself the rear bushings are pretty easy to access and put back together with a little bit of muscle; but the front ones are another story. It's going to require some more finesse to get the bar back into place. Not positive, but maybe you can use the KDSS lift install thread I made as a guide to disconnecting and reconnecting the front and rear sway bars. Hopefully it's similar enough. Good luck
Thanks, I saw that thread awhile back, I'll go through it again for the rear sway bar disconnect. I'll start off with the rear, and see if that helps atleast the rear, then go from there.
jbstrd
New member
You should not have any problems doing this yourself. Let me know if you need any help. I have performed lift installs on two KDSS equipped Runners with no issues. My garage is open if you need assistance.
KDSS explained.
Look at the picture on post 36. The KDSS piston is controlling one of the sway bar pivots. Without KDSS, that pivot would be fixed to the frame. The Upper chamber of the KDSS cylinders (above the piston), both front and rear, are connected together and the lower chambers are connected also. The little accumulators are to allow small bumps to be "ignored" at the other piston.
In the case of body roll, both pistons move together in the same direction. Since the chambers under compression are connected, the sway bar pivot controlled by the KDSS does not move significantly and the sway bars act normally preventing body roll.
Off-road on an offset-hole uphill, the right front wheel goes up, the right rear wheel goes down, the left front goes down, and the left rear goes up. The KDSS piston in the left front cylinder goes down, and since the KDSS piston on the left rear goes up, the KDSS reinforces the articulation, allowing the sway bar pivots to follow the movement of the left wheels. This acts like the sway bars are disconnected except that the KDSS hydraulics reinforce the articulation by allowing and helping the sway bar pivots to move up and down.
KDSS would not help nose dive under braking or squat under acceleration, but to control roll on-road and articulation off-road, it seems like a great idea.
I can think of two possible problems with a suspension lift with KDSS: the changed angle of the sway bar arms cause problems; and longer travel suspension may be too much for the KDSS cylinders.
I hope this helps.
Look at the picture on post 36. The KDSS piston is controlling one of the sway bar pivots. Without KDSS, that pivot would be fixed to the frame. The Upper chamber of the KDSS cylinders (above the piston), both front and rear, are connected together and the lower chambers are connected also. The little accumulators are to allow small bumps to be "ignored" at the other piston.
In the case of body roll, both pistons move together in the same direction. Since the chambers under compression are connected, the sway bar pivot controlled by the KDSS does not move significantly and the sway bars act normally preventing body roll.
Off-road on an offset-hole uphill, the right front wheel goes up, the right rear wheel goes down, the left front goes down, and the left rear goes up. The KDSS piston in the left front cylinder goes down, and since the KDSS piston on the left rear goes up, the KDSS reinforces the articulation, allowing the sway bar pivots to follow the movement of the left wheels. This acts like the sway bars are disconnected except that the KDSS hydraulics reinforce the articulation by allowing and helping the sway bar pivots to move up and down.
KDSS would not help nose dive under braking or squat under acceleration, but to control roll on-road and articulation off-road, it seems like a great idea.
I can think of two possible problems with a suspension lift with KDSS: the changed angle of the sway bar arms cause problems; and longer travel suspension may be too much for the KDSS cylinders.
I hope this helps.
Jeremy556
New member
Only option for long travel in front has increased track width, so no go there without creating a longer sway bar. In the rear, the limiting factor is the KDSS sway bar impacting the track bar, mine does this even without long travel.
Prospective 4Runner buyer here. I currently have a WRX and whenever I hit a pothole, it feels and sounds like my car is going to break in half. I'm over that feeling. I know that KDSS limits the body sway so that the truck feels tighter but does this come with a giant THUD whenever I hit a pothole? I've test driven an SR5 and it feels like I'm riding on a cloud but there are no dealers with TRD Off-Roads available for a test drive.
EddieV4runnin
New member
KDSS is worth every penny that's all I have to say about that.
Bumbo
New member
I think KDSS is probably worth it for most people.
For pure street performance I really like the XREAS system a bit more, the Limited definitely feels and rides like a street tuned truck.
Personally for the off-road enthusiast I think it's better without... I completely removed the sway bars off my 4th Gen and just better off-road, but it feels a lot different at speed. Adjustable shocks go a long way for street tuning here but I have to be more conservative on-road in general.
For mixed use, which is probably most 5th Gen owners (hopefully), I think KDSS is a good compromise, but I think I would have some reservations if you feel you are going to get mod happy with suspension.
If you plan on leaving the truck stock for the better part of its street-centric life with some weekend warrior off-road driving I say go for it.
For pure street performance I really like the XREAS system a bit more, the Limited definitely feels and rides like a street tuned truck.
Personally for the off-road enthusiast I think it's better without... I completely removed the sway bars off my 4th Gen and just better off-road, but it feels a lot different at speed. Adjustable shocks go a long way for street tuning here but I have to be more conservative on-road in general.
For mixed use, which is probably most 5th Gen owners (hopefully), I think KDSS is a good compromise, but I think I would have some reservations if you feel you are going to get mod happy with suspension.
If you plan on leaving the truck stock for the better part of its street-centric life with some weekend warrior off-road driving I say go for it.
MaddoxPics
New member
Pretty much was forced to buy it as nothing in CA appears to be sold without it. Test drove an SR5 Premium without it and thought it felt great (granted I've been driving a CR-V so I guess that should be the case?).
Looking forward to the KDSS, though from what I've been told by some, once I do a lift it's practically useless? Not sure if true, but being that won't happen immediately I'm sure I'll get some use out of the KDSS.
Looking forward to the KDSS, though from what I've been told by some, once I do a lift it's practically useless? Not sure if true, but being that won't happen immediately I'm sure I'll get some use out of the KDSS.
