kn CAI or keep stock
- Thread starter 91bulldog
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Iowa4Runner
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91bulldog said:
Keep it stock! A big difference? Not in a million years. The only difference is the amount of dirt that gets past your filter. Toyota's engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the intake system. They're not idiots. They didn't throw away precious horsepower to save a few bucks on an air filter. Don't fall for the K&N hype - Don't be a sucker...
TRD04RUNNER
New member
Re: Re: kn CAI or keep stock
hahahha LOL! I don't think any stock intake is better then an open intake. Stock intake has to much air restricting.(they suck your HP) why do you think it so quite?? (cooler non restricted air = more power)ever cars I own since 1990 has an k&N filter at the end of the CAI. and ever time I clean the filer ever 15 to20k miles I ran a clean white rag trough the intake piping and has never pick up any dirt in it!(knock on wood) went trough clean came out clean! the dirtier the k$N filter is the better it trap dirt! I usually oil it twice after I clean it 2 make sure.
Iowa4Runner said:
hahahha LOL! I don't think any stock intake is better then an open intake. Stock intake has to much air restricting.(they suck your HP) why do you think it so quite?? (cooler non restricted air = more power)ever cars I own since 1990 has an k&N filter at the end of the CAI. and ever time I clean the filer ever 15 to20k miles I ran a clean white rag trough the intake piping and has never pick up any dirt in it!(knock on wood) went trough clean came out clean! the dirtier the k$N filter is the better it trap dirt! I usually oil it twice after I clean it 2 make sure.
Iowa4Runner
New member
Re: Re: Re: kn CAI or keep stock
All ingenious "hahaha LOL!" comments aside, answer me this - Why did Toyota choose to "suck the HP" out of the 4Runner by designing a bad intake system as you'd have us believe?
By the way, K&N doesn't oil their filters twice before flow testing them. I wouldn't be surprised if over-oiling them actually makes them more restrictive than the OEM paper filters. Wouldn't that be funny. Ahh who am I kidding, as long as the intake noise is nice and loud you KNOW you're getting a MASSIVE axle-snapping boost in performance. Sweet dude!!!
TRD04RUNNER said:
All ingenious "hahaha LOL!" comments aside, answer me this - Why did Toyota choose to "suck the HP" out of the 4Runner by designing a bad intake system as you'd have us believe?
By the way, K&N doesn't oil their filters twice before flow testing them. I wouldn't be surprised if over-oiling them actually makes them more restrictive than the OEM paper filters. Wouldn't that be funny. Ahh who am I kidding, as long as the intake noise is nice and loud you KNOW you're getting a MASSIVE axle-snapping boost in performance. Sweet dude!!!
chillwihll
New member
Um, so Toyota is supposed to maximize horsepower and performance on an SUV? Obviously they're going to choose ride quality/all around comfort over horsepower... I dont think Toyota developed the 4runner to squeeze every possible bit of power out of it for us. BACK TO THE TOPIC...I didn't know k&n made a cold air intake. I thought they just had that stupid FIPK short ram thing that sucks air from the engine compartment?
Iowa4Runner
New member
chillwihll said:
Geez man this is exactly the topic. The OEM setup is fine, so the K&N won't "make a big difference". I don't know why you're talking about ride quality and all around comfort, because they've nothing do to with air filter performance. That's almost as silly as the previous poster talking about "open intakes", where did that come from?
I don't know where you've been for the last several years, but horsepower and performance are definitely relevant to SUVs. Just look at the first topic on the board right now "2004 vs 2005 V8 HP/Torque". Pick up any brochure or watch any commercial for an SUV or truck, chances are you'll hear about HP and or torque. Performance sells, and Toyota employs capable engineers that aren't going to flush HP down the toilet by designing a crappy intake system.
Re: Re: Re: Re: kn CAI or keep stock
245 HP in the V-6 is enough the cheer about. This is because its a significant gain over pervious Toyota models/engines. Also, your stock intake is a cold air intake. The inlet is under front right fender, so your already sucking in the coldest air possible.
Moreover, isn't the K&N filter located inside the engine bay? The K&N is just a filter with different tubing to the IM.
Also, over-oiling the Air Filter is bad for the MAF and other sensors. I remember having an amsoil air filter in my 00' maxima. It went in gewwie and streaked residue throughout the IM.
Iowa4Runner said:
245 HP in the V-6 is enough the cheer about. This is because its a significant gain over pervious Toyota models/engines. Also, your stock intake is a cold air intake. The inlet is under front right fender, so your already sucking in the coldest air possible.
Moreover, isn't the K&N filter located inside the engine bay? The K&N is just a filter with different tubing to the IM.
Also, over-oiling the Air Filter is bad for the MAF and other sensors. I remember having an amsoil air filter in my 00' maxima. It went in gewwie and streaked residue throughout the IM.
The K&N uses that nice hot air from under your hood(stock is fed cold air through the fender).
It must be better cause you paid thorough the nose for a cheap piece of plastic that is hyped
by the K&N shills the populate all the boards(this is the way they do their advertising).
Cliff s
It must be better cause you paid thorough the nose for a cheap piece of plastic that is hyped
by the K&N shills the populate all the boards(this is the way they do their advertising).
Cliff s
Bumpin' Yota
New member
91 bullydog -
the FIPK wont do anything for a 3rd gen and likely the same for a 4th gen. However it does make a HUGE difference on the 2nd gen - more so than a loose exhaust does!
On hot days (110+ heat index) and with the OEM setup I had ZERO bottom end torque. After FIPK I had a good bit of bottom end on those same, hot as hell days. When it's cold out, there is no change. And it also nets a 2mpg gain on highway...
And no an open element filter that has been over oiled will NOT flow less than the OEM garbage. And anyone that thinks that needs to pull their head out of their arse. The only thing over oiling such a filter does is to foul the MAF's heating element...IF you have a MAF, which 2nd gens do not. As far as "toyota engineering" WTFEVER!! So they pourposely engineered the 3vze's valves to burn, HG to blow, and the crossover to suck that bad!! So they pourposely designed the 22re's timing chain guides to randomly fail!! So they pourposely designed the 5vzfe continued HG problems...
the FIPK wont do anything for a 3rd gen and likely the same for a 4th gen. However it does make a HUGE difference on the 2nd gen - more so than a loose exhaust does!
On hot days (110+ heat index) and with the OEM setup I had ZERO bottom end torque. After FIPK I had a good bit of bottom end on those same, hot as hell days. When it's cold out, there is no change. And it also nets a 2mpg gain on highway...
And no an open element filter that has been over oiled will NOT flow less than the OEM garbage. And anyone that thinks that needs to pull their head out of their arse. The only thing over oiling such a filter does is to foul the MAF's heating element...IF you have a MAF, which 2nd gens do not. As far as "toyota engineering" WTFEVER!! So they pourposely engineered the 3vze's valves to burn, HG to blow, and the crossover to suck that bad!! So they pourposely designed the 22re's timing chain guides to randomly fail!! So they pourposely designed the 5vzfe continued HG problems...
Galactic05
New member
To answer this question, I believe the people who have one should answer. I especially like the review Vandert gave, you couldn't get a better review (especially the comment he made while driving is classic).
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=8659
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=8659
Iowa4Runner
New member
Bumpin' Yota said:
And we should believe this because "Bumpin' Yota" says so?
1. How do you justify calling the OEM filter garbage?
2. How well does a K&N filter flow when it's soaked in oil?
Please, give us more than pure speculation... Provide independent test data, or at a bare minimum give us logical, rational explanations to support these claims.
Boaz
New member
I have a K and N drop in, I am basically doing a experiment with. I am running it for one OCI, then after I get my analysis, I will either keep it or put the OEM filter back in. I will also inspect my intake hose
for any dirt/debris.
Its a dorky habit but everytime I fill up on gas I pop the K and N out and tap it(gently) a few times on the bumper to get any large debris out. Everytime some stuff falls out.
I noticed the K and N sounds a bit louder at WOT, and when it shifts gears the growl/moan from the TB is somewhat different sounding than stock.
To be honest with you, as long as I plan on keeping this truck, I will most likely switch back to the OEM filter. The gain in HP/TQ is so nominal Im not sure if its worth the risk of using a questionable filter device. But hey, I am at least giving it a shot.
for any dirt/debris.
Its a dorky habit but everytime I fill up on gas I pop the K and N out and tap it(gently) a few times on the bumper to get any large debris out. Everytime some stuff falls out.
I noticed the K and N sounds a bit louder at WOT, and when it shifts gears the growl/moan from the TB is somewhat different sounding than stock.
To be honest with you, as long as I plan on keeping this truck, I will most likely switch back to the OEM filter. The gain in HP/TQ is so nominal Im not sure if its worth the risk of using a questionable filter device. But hey, I am at least giving it a shot.
Bumpin' Yota
New member
Iowa4Runner said:
Actually you should be the one providing test data as you were the one ignorantly pontificating about them, and I'd place a wager you have never even seen a KN filter much less used one, otherwise you would not be making such stupid claims.
As far as which flow better, very simple. The KN has a larger pore size (can be confirmed with the naked eye) and uses the oil's surface tension to trap various particles. OEM filters use the pore's size to trap particles and fiber entanglement.
Assuming that over oiling occludes all the pores (which it cannot as the oil used does not have a high enough surface tension to do this) it would merely be pulled into the intake system the moment the engine was fired up. Remeber this is very thin oil we are talking about here, not grease. (Its consistancy is much much less than 5w...) Thus the ONLY problem generated by an over oiled filter is it screwing up your MAF's heating element.
Now if you use an oil based, open element filter and let it get dirty as hell, guess what - then it clogs, as it is filtering better and better. (Pore size decreases)
Next time actually use something and more importantly have a grasp of how it works before you ignorantly bash it. I am at 260,000 miles on a 3vze '90 4runner with stock HG and still getting 20mpg so I am doing something correctly....
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Iowa4Runner
New member
Bumpin' Yota said:
Hitman is that you? Did you relocate to Florida?
You might do well to follow your own advise. I hate to use the phrase raging hypocrite, but it's seems painfully applicable here. Obviously it's you who need to get a grasp of how things work, you who are ignorant. Let me quote a little something from K&N's web site- "When servicing a K&N filter, take care not to over-oil the element. Besides impeding air flow..." Did you catch that? IMPEDING AIR FLOW! Care to astonish us with more lessons on surface tension? Or how about the oil that you claim has a consistency much much less than 5W? Any chance you're referring to the aerosol oil that has the carrier solvent?
If ignorantly bashing things is so offensive to you, then why did you say the OEM filter was "garbage". Again, you've offered nothing to support this. Where are these "stupid claims" I made? I said the K&N would not make a big performance difference. I backed it up with the notion that Toyota hires capable engineers that would not design a lemon air intake system. It stands to reason that there'd be little room (if any) for improvement. If someone wants to justify spending $$$ for performance gains, the burden of proof is on them.
And by the way, I've owned and used a K&N air filter before, you assumed incorrectly. Have a nice day.
Iowa4Runner
New member
Boaz said:
:cheers:
Bumpin' Yota
New member
Iowa4Runner said:
First off, I have absolutely no idea who Hitman is, and I could not care less who he/she is.
Secondly, if you would have READ what I orionally posted you would have realized HOW I came to the conclusion that I did on OEM.
Yes, perhaps toyota has addressed it the intake system on a 3rd or 4th gen, but they CERTAINLY did NOT on a 2nd gen!
Thirdly if you were to own a 2nd gen and did not experience this, it is likely that you live in a climate that is cooler than here. When cold, the performance is identicle, its when it's hot that it makes a HUGE difference.
As far as the consistency of the oil goes, my recharge pack does not have the aerosole can of oil, it has the manual, plastic spray pump. For entertainment alone, I would love to see someone try spray 5w oil through a plastic manual spray pump that generates such a fine mist...
As far as KN stating it 'impeading air flow' perhaps you should understand the definition of impeadance....
Impeadance is the resistance of flow or movement from one point to another, not the complete occlusion of it as you seem to infer. Yes, over oiling will reduce total air flow slightly compared to an unoiled filter or even a properly oiled filter, however the significance of this is minimal at best, IMO.
You think OEM is better I do not, we shall agree to disagree.
Lastly, I do not intend to offend and if I have, then I apologize that was not my intent.
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Expat
Banned
I have been involved in the racing circle for Porsches for several years. Time and again K&N comes up as a discussion point.
Invariably the overwhelming belief is they do not filter well and produce minimal performance gains.
The best and only way to resolve this particular discussion is to do some independant tests of both the stock and K&N filter in exactly the same conditions eg ambient temp.s, altitudes, humidity etc. on the same vehicle.
Once some solid data from an independant tester with graphs and data results is posted, then and only then, will anyone be able to say definitively one way or another what's "best".
While it's not incumbent on anyone here to provide these tests, we should all be very wary of comments made in these forums, as most information is opinion, not necessarily facts.
:
Cheers
Mark
Invariably the overwhelming belief is they do not filter well and produce minimal performance gains.
The best and only way to resolve this particular discussion is to do some independant tests of both the stock and K&N filter in exactly the same conditions eg ambient temp.s, altitudes, humidity etc. on the same vehicle.
Once some solid data from an independant tester with graphs and data results is posted, then and only then, will anyone be able to say definitively one way or another what's "best".
While it's not incumbent on anyone here to provide these tests, we should all be very wary of comments made in these forums, as most information is opinion, not necessarily facts.
: Cheers
Mark
