KO2 no traction -Scary!

I'm surprised they never did anything to improve them. When I had them on my ram they were horrible on wet roads

Seems like BFG coasted along with one of the best ATs on the market for a long time. For years the consensus was that ATs are ok all around tires, but you give up some wet traction and a lot of traction on ice. The KO2 seems to only be a minor improvement compared to the KO (I have had both, but years apart on different vehicles, so it is hard to compare). I had KOs on a tacoma that never balanced so I ended up with MS2s (awesome on road tire that are decent for off road), on a Tundra Rock Warrior, and now on my 2012 T4R. The crazy thing to me is I used to run General Grabbers on my 4th Gen T4R before I sold it, and they had so much more ice traction than the KO2s. It is crazy because the Grabbers appear to be a knock off of the original KOs. Not sure if the BFG rubber is just to hard or what, but they suck on ice.

A lot of other tire companies have really stepped up and passed BFG, which is awesome for us as consumers. Tire tech has come a long way. My wife runs Blizzak DM V2s in the winter, and it is crazy how good they are in winter conditions, even compared to a studded tire.

For 90% of 4Runner drivers, an AT tire probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but they look cool. For those of us that use them off-road, we have to compromise a bit with on road manners, gas mileage, and traction. Tires are a personal preference, and the BFGs are a good tire. It isn't a bad option, but a rig with BFGs gives up on-road traction compared to a lot of other options, including other ATs.

Even the best newer AT tires pale in comparison to a true winter tire on snow and ice on paved roads, or a good all season in the rain. Thankfully the technology, compounds, etc., with a lot of newer tires have closed the gap a bit.
 
So what are your guys' opinion on the best tire for Winter/Hot climate that Utah goes through? I am still new to off-roading so consider me a beginner. My wife is the daily driver of my 5th Gen, just looking to upgrade from stock. Winter/Summer safety and noise is priority as I still am too new to get deep into back roads

Giving me your opinions will give me a place to start researching, I thought the KO2 were the end all tire, but seems its not the best for my application

based on my personal experience, despite what has been said here, I would still recommend the KO2.
 
So what are your guys' opinion on the best tire for Winter/Hot climate that Utah goes through? I am still new to off-roading so consider me a beginner. My wife is the daily driver of my 5th Gen, just looking to upgrade from stock. Winter/Summer safety and noise is priority as I still am too new to get deep into back roads

Giving me your opinions will give me a place to start researching, I thought the KO2 were the end all tire, but seems its not the best for my application

It's a loaded question. Some people love this or that, some hate this or that.
That being said in my opinion is the KO2 is a great tire.
I think they are great tires. I live in Denver. I have the tires on 2 of my 3 rigs. I'm in the mountains as often as possible. I love them on the snow, rocks, sand and in Moab. My opinion again is they are the perfect DD/wheeling tire.
 
On E rated KO2’s, most tire places will insist on airing them up to 40psi for our 4Runners. When aired up that much, the whole tire isn’t in contact with the road, just the center. I too noticed some slip when in the rain, but it was better than the Nitto Terra Grapplers that I had in the rain. I’ve lowered the pressure to 32 all around and now the whole tire is hitting the ground, which is how I’ve gotten the best wear patterns. I’ve noticed a big improvement in the wet with the tires aired properly for my vehicle. I’m a big fan on the KO2’s, even after I didn’t really want to be a fan of them. I bought them because I wanted white letter out, Mountain and snow rating, and I just wanted to test out this tire, knowing I could sell it and get something else if I didn’t like it. After testing it in several conditions (not yet snow, but that’ll come next month), and I couldn’t be happier with them for daily driving
 
I've had several sets of Toyo Open Country AT. I have no complaints - decent traction in all conditions and at all temps. Most important to me is they have all balanced well and stayed balanced - no shimmies or shakes ever.
 
I had a set of D or E rated KOs as the first tires on my TE. I was very unimpressed at their lack of traction in rain, snow, and ice. Literally the only thing they were good at were off road use. Ironically the Destination MTs I use as my summer tires are much better in the rain.
 
Looks liked mixed results here. I'm running 275/70/17 KO2's, with 20K miles (or so) on them, and haven't had any issues in the rain. The only "slip' I've had was on a road (Northwest Highway - East Dallas) that is notorious for oil dripping clunckers driving around -- so when it rain, all that oil on the road is amplified with the wet road.

When it rains, I take precautions and drive slower :)


Side note: for those looking into getting Falken A/T3W, there is a warning on the Falken website about tires that were designated to be scrapped, some 3rd parties may be selling, and that they may have been illegally refurbished. Buyer Beware.
 
I don't remember. They weren't awful,...they were ok but as time went on especially on wet roads I found them not so good.

If they were the stock Nittos that come on TRDs, those are P-rated, and I think most of the lackluster experiences people have with G2s are with P-rated tires.
 
After reading 8 pages, I'm pretty surprised that no one has brought up 4 wheel vs rear wheel drive. [MENTION=115536]jima60[/MENTION], were you in rear wheel only?

I have 285/70/17 General Grabber AT2s, with almost an identical tread pattern. When it rains, I don't have as much traction as in dry conditions until I throw it in 4 wheel high, which adds the feel of being more lock to the road and keeps my nose in the right direction.

Per the manual, you're supposed to run you're truck in 4 wheel around 15 minutes per month to keep the mechanism lubed up... I just do it when it rains.

Probably worth a try before you buy new rubber.
 
Drove several sets on ice and snow and felt lots of ass-puckering slip.
Blizzak DM-V2 or Toyo Open Country far better for winter — in places that get real snow.
 
After reading 8 pages, I'm pretty surprised that no one has brought up 4 wheel vs rear wheel drive. [MENTION=115536]jima60[/MENTION], were you in rear wheel only?

I have 285/70/17 General Grabber AT2s, with almost an identical tread pattern. When it rains, I don't have as much traction as in dry conditions until I throw it in 4 wheel high, which adds the feel of being more lock to the road and keeps my nose in the right direction.

Per the manual, you're supposed to run you're truck in 4 wheel around 15 minutes per month to keep the mechanism lubed up... I just do it when it rains.

Probably worth a try before you buy new rubber.

He was on a cloverleaf exit ramp so you shouldn’t be in 4wd anyways due to the turn. As far as the 10 miles per month, I do it on a straight highway when it’s raining but never in turns. Just gonna bind your transfer case gears and maybe break teeth.
 
He was on a cloverleaf exit ramp so you shouldn’t be in 4wd anyways due to the turn. As far as the 10 miles per month, I do it on a straight highway when it’s raining but never in turns. Just gonna bind your transfer case gears and maybe break teeth.

Granted, I have zero experience on that particular cloverleaf, but in general gradual turns including loverleafs are fine for 4 wheel drive. If that patch of road is exceptionally tight, perhaps the recommend speed is over rated.

I wouldn't take a 90 degree stop light turn at 35 in a 4runner though I did take one in a manual saab at 45 mph using the E brake.. which was awesome, but I digress. Unless you're in an extreme tight turn situation, your teeth won't bind and if you are, 35 s way too fast.
 
Point of order (mental desktop order)

Anyone who thinks that the Tire Rack survey rankings are decently accurate and useful and also thinks the KO2 drastically under-performs has some tidying up to do on their mental desktop.

Spoiler: KO2 currently ranked #1 A/T overall AND tied for #1 in wet traction.

Personally, I don't think there's enough usable signal to be sifted from the noise anywhere that tire opinions dominate.

I'll stick to keeping it simple (type, weight, tread, etc).
 
When it rains, I take precautions and drive slower :)

Ditto! Even on my 4th gens with the Dun-Flops that would turn into bologna-skins before 20k was on them, as long as I slowed down in the rainy/snowy weather here in New England, i was fine. I would put on BFG Long Trail T/A's on them after the Flops, those were just fine as well.

This thread has made me nervous, as I have a fresh set of KO2's on the black TRD wheels being put on my Trail on Wednesday!
 
Ditto! Even on my 4th gens with the Dun-Flops that would turn into bologna-skins before 20k was on them, as long as I slowed down in the rainy/snowy weather here in New England, i was fine. I would put on BFG Long Trail T/A's on them after the Flops, those were just fine as well.

This thread has made me nervous, as I have a fresh set of KO2's on the black TRD wheels being put on my Trail on Wednesday!


I wouldn't sweat it. I've ran KO2s for probably 40k miles and the only time I've had a problem in the rain is when I gun it from a stop. If you temper your driving habits in the rain like you should, you'll be just fine with the KO2s.
 
Ditto! Even on my 4th gens with the Dun-Flops that would turn into bologna-skins before 20k was on them, as long as I slowed down in the rainy/snowy weather here in New England, i was fine. I would put on BFG Long Trail T/A's on them after the Flops, those were just fine as well.

This thread has made me nervous, as I have a fresh set of KO2's on the black TRD wheels being put on my Trail on Wednesday!

My two cents......Have KO2's with 13K on TRDP. Last winter worked fine in snow and no issues so far with wet traction. We have to remember, its a brick on a frame with a very basic suspension. Common sense (Slowing Down) for conditions go a long way to good traction.......>Good Struts such as 5100's or 6102's help a lot as well.
 
Point of order (mental desktop order)

Anyone who thinks that the Tire Rack survey rankings are decently accurate and useful and also thinks the KO2 drastically under-performs has some tidying up to do on their mental desktop.

Spoiler: KO2 currently ranked #1 A/T overall AND tied for #1 in wet traction.

Personally, I don't think there's enough usable signal to be sifted from the noise anywhere that tire opinions dominate.

I'll stick to keeping it simple (type, weight, tread, etc).



When it comes to online surveys, post-purchase rationalization comes into play when a purchased item is reviewed. It is in human nature to give high reviews to what you own. Not to mention that survey does not include any of the other newer AT tire options, but does include the older AT2, which I personally had great luck with (survey missing At3, atw, st maxx, at3/w, duratrac (listed under commercial) etc., so not much of a comparison).

The fact is, the KO2 is a decent AT tire, and I currently own a set on my 4R. I have owned two sets of KOs, and they lasted a long time, and were not finicky about balancing. However, from personal experience, the ice traction on K02s is abysmal compared to the other all-terrain tires I have owned (Falken AT3/W, Cooper AT3, General AT2, and Goodyear Duratrac. In fact, our experience was so bad, we ended up with winter tires/wheels for our 4R when I have gone through many winters driving to ski resorts 40-50 times a season without the feeling I needed snow tires. That isn't to say the KO2s don't have other good attributes. After nearly 30k miles, the lack of treadwear is impressive. They still look new! They have also done very well off-road the limited number of times I have had it in the backcountry, and the D rated version had a minimal impact on gas mileage (maybe .5 to 1 mpg).

IMO, if you don't operate in snowy, icy areas, the KO2 is a good choice. I have had a bit of hydroplaning on mine, but that was during a bad storm and they performed fine. It is the snow and especially ice where they are lacking. That isn't to say they aren't better on snow that stock tires, but I have no doubt in my mind there are much better AT tire options for those of use that deal with snow and ice.

For me, the lack of traction on icy roads I have seen first hand, paired with the fact that I can get tires with better winter performance (ST Maxx, Discoverer at/w, At2, Cooper At3, Falken at3/w) for a much lower price will cause me to stay away from KO2s in the future.

I'm glad a lot of people like their KO2s, but coming from someone who has run a lot of different AT tires in my life, the KO2s leave a lot to be desired when it comes to winter traction.

As a side note, after my wife's harrowing drive on ice with KO2s mentioned in another post in this thread, we added a set of winter wheels with Blizzak DM/V2s. The traction on these studless tires are amazing! It is our first set of dedicated winter tires, and after just over one full winter, I am amazed. Our 12 limited (awd) felt surefooted all winter long. My wife is a winter tire convert, and with the additional performance, I can't really blame her (just more work for me swapping wheels and programming sensors 2x a year, lol).

Bottom line, if you are reviewing this thread when researching what to buy, my opinion comes from running the KO2s and many sets of the other newer tires on the market.

To be fair, here are some cons of the other brands:

Falken AT3/W: Even in P rated, they are so heavy that mileage suffers (may be a good attribute in some ways too...). I just purchased these, and only drove in one snow storm (cars were off the road in a few places). With normal winter driving style, these performed amazing. If you look at the Falkens, keep in mind that the P rated have a silica compound that is supposed to be better in wet conditions and improve treadwear. The E rated AT3/W does not have this compound. As own P rated, I cannot give an opinion as to the difference in performance.

General Grabber AT2: Even with semi regular rotation, had a bit of wobble on each rotation (went away after about 300 miles or so, but never had that with the KO2s, probably a softer compound on the Grabber which is probably why I had better winter traction with them).

Cooper At3: Honestly, I loved these tires. Good mileage, good treadlife (only ran about 20k miles before selling vehicle) and were good off-road and on snow/ice. I guess the biggest downer was the lack of aggressive look. Price has gone up a lot since I bought my set.

Goodyear Duratrac: Like the KO2s, these are really expensive. Unlike the KO2s, they are great on ice but also wear fairly quickly, and if you don't rotate every 5k miles these get really noisy.

Almost forgot-Michelin LTX MS/2: After a set of K0s would not balance, went to these. They were surprisingly good off-road, but not quite as good as others I have had. Great on -road manners, and good on snow/ice but more of a street tire so a less aggressive look. Also, like the KO2s, they are on the high end of the price spectrum. Thee set I had did not have the snowflake symbol, which makes it a bit inconvenient if you live in an area that requires it to avoid chains in certain conditions (even though it is M+S rated, it wasn't enough for the requirements in my former State). I would not hesitate to run these again.
 
...my opinion comes from running the KO2s and many sets of the other newer tires on the market.

I 100% get why you feel this way. That's a lot of experience. I also get why you would feel inclined to pass the information on.

From my reverse perspective, the dynamic is different. The personal experience I'm consulting is one of how to go about selecting which information to give weight to. For tires, I have pretty much de-selected the entire domain of opinion (notwithstanding compelling accounts like yours). There is no doubt valuable signal in that domain (along with the very difficult question -- how to detect it). But more importantly, I'll never be mislead by noise of which there is much, much more. A tire engineer tells me that tire manufacturers generally rely on lab testing because on-vehicle tire testing is too inconsistent. I trust you see some of the implications.

In the case of the KO2, the primary evidence I use to assume its not a top wet performer is BFGs claim of significantly increased tread life on gravel as well as the visually apparent reduced siping compared to some other ATs. That info is out front. No need for a prospective buyer to rely on opinion if wet traction is foremost in their mind (which then raises the question of whether they should be shopping for an AT in the first place).

Now, if I were looking to be convinced -- so that I could pull the trigger on a purchase -- I'd be all over opinions. They're certainly valuable for that. The only algorithm that would need to be applied is "stop reading when you're jazzed enough to buy". Some people forget that step as witnessed by the endless cries of help from people who can't make a decision.

My quibble with the theme of this thread is a matter of degree. I'm not big on hyperbole and I don't buy that the effect size of any KO2 reduced wet traction is anywhere near the picture painted by some of the language and descriptions. I might well look for a different A/T if I lived outside the desert but it would be for the objective reasons already noted. If I owned them in Seattle I certainly wouldn't be "nervous" or "scared". Actually, if I owned them in Seattle I'd probably be doing a massive amount of personal testing and no doubt create a ridiculously wordy thread that no one would make it to the end of.:lmao: :keyboard:
 

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