KO2 no traction -Scary!

When it comes to online surveys, post-purchase rationalization comes into play when a purchased item is reviewed. It is in human nature to give high reviews to what you own. Not to mention that survey does not include any of the other newer AT tire options, but does include the older AT2, which I personally had great luck with (survey missing At3, atw, st maxx, at3/w, duratrac (listed under commercial) etc., so not much of a comparison).

The fact is, the KO2 is a decent AT tire, and I currently own a set on my 4R. I have owned two sets of KOs, and they lasted a long time, and were not finicky about balancing. However, from personal experience, the ice traction on K02s is abysmal compared to the other all-terrain tires I have owned (Falken AT3/W, Cooper AT3, General AT2, and Goodyear Duratrac. In fact, our experience was so bad, we ended up with winter tires/wheels for our 4R when I have gone through many winters driving to ski resorts 40-50 times a season without the feeling I needed snow tires. That isn't to say the KO2s don't have other good attributes. After nearly 30k miles, the lack of treadwear is impressive. They still look new! They have also done very well off-road the limited number of times I have had it in the backcountry, and the D rated version had a minimal impact on gas mileage (maybe .5 to 1 mpg).

IMO, if you don't operate in snowy, icy areas, the KO2 is a good choice. I have had a bit of hydroplaning on mine, but that was during a bad storm and they performed fine. It is the snow and especially ice where they are lacking. That isn't to say they aren't better on snow that stock tires, but I have no doubt in my mind there are much better AT tire options for those of use that deal with snow and ice.

For me, the lack of traction on icy roads I have seen first hand, paired with the fact that I can get tires with better winter performance (ST Maxx, Discoverer at/w, At2, Cooper At3, Falken at3/w) for a much lower price will cause me to stay away from KO2s in the future.

I'm glad a lot of people like their KO2s, but coming from someone who has run a lot of different AT tires in my life, the KO2s leave a lot to be desired when it comes to winter traction.

As a side note, after my wife's harrowing drive on ice with KO2s mentioned in another post in this thread, we added a set of winter wheels with Blizzak DM/V2s. The traction on these studless tires are amazing! It is our first set of dedicated winter tires, and after just over one full winter, I am amazed. Our 12 limited (awd) felt surefooted all winter long. My wife is a winter tire convert, and with the additional performance, I can't really blame her (just more work for me swapping wheels and programming sensors 2x a year, lol).

Bottom line, if you are reviewing this thread when researching what to buy, my opinion comes from running the KO2s and many sets of the other newer tires on the market.

To be fair, here are some cons of the other brands:

Falken AT3/W: Even in P rated, they are so heavy that mileage suffers (may be a good attribute in some ways too...). I just purchased these, and only drove in one snow storm (cars were off the road in a few places). With normal winter driving style, these performed amazing. If you look at the Falkens, keep in mind that the P rated have a silica compound that is supposed to be better in wet conditions and improve treadwear. The E rated AT3/W does not have this compound. As own P rated, I cannot give an opinion as to the difference in performance.

General Grabber AT2: Even with semi regular rotation, had a bit of wobble on each rotation (went away after about 300 miles or so, but never had that with the KO2s, probably a softer compound on the Grabber which is probably why I had better winter traction with them).

Cooper At3: Honestly, I loved these tires. Good mileage, good treadlife (only ran about 20k miles before selling vehicle) and were good off-road and on snow/ice. I guess the biggest downer was the lack of aggressive look. Price has gone up a lot since I bought my set.

Goodyear Duratrac: Like the KO2s, these are really expensive. Unlike the KO2s, they are great on ice but also wear fairly quickly, and if you don't rotate every 5k miles these get really noisy.

Almost forgot-Michelin LTX MS/2: After a set of K0s would not balance, went to these. They were surprisingly good off-road, but not quite as good as others I have had. Great on -road manners, and good on snow/ice but more of a street tire so a less aggressive look. Also, like the KO2s, they are on the high end of the price spectrum. Thee set I had did not have the snowflake symbol, which makes it a bit inconvenient if you live in an area that requires it to avoid chains in certain conditions (even though it is M+S rated, it wasn't enough for the requirements in my former State). I would not hesitate to run these again.

does anyone know what it takes to get the "snowflake" badge on a tire? how can a tire that performs so poorly in wet and snowy conditions be rated as a "snow" tire? Sounds like there are other tires that dont have the snowflake that do better?
 
The Three Peak Mountain Snowflake has more stringent requirements and lets you know this is a tire ready for snow. In order to meet this standard, the tire must attain a traction index equal to, or greater than 110 (compared to a reference tire which is rated 100) during traction tests specified by the ASTM on medium packed snow (not ice).

My understanding is the reference tire is a standard all season type or summer tire that doesn't have very good traction (think stock tires).

I read an article that Cooper has requested that the certification be more stringent as they believe their Discoverer AT/W could meet a standard most other ATs cannot.

So while a Blizzak DMV2 and a KO2 both have the snowflake symbol, their winter performances would be vastly different.
 
does anyone know what it takes to get the "snowflake" badge on a tire? how can a tire that performs so poorly in wet and snowy conditions be rated as a "snow" tire? Sounds like there are other tires that dont have the snowflake that do better?
I have no idea what tests are required but,

I have put many miles in terrible snow conditions, and I can assure you, the bgf KO in no way performs poorly in the snow.

are there better tires for compact snow and ice? absolutely. there is an entire line of tires specifically built for that purpose.

but to say the ko performs poorly on snow is false.
 
I have brand new Ko2 265/70/17 C rated, but live in sunny S. CA

Does the rating make a difference in the rain? Will the C drive different then the E rated?
 
does anyone know what it takes to get the "snowflake" badge on a tire? how can a tire that performs so poorly in wet and snowy conditions be rated as a "snow" tire? Sounds like there are other tires that dont have the snowflake that do better?
I don't remember the exact requirement but something like X% better than all season in stopping and turning in cold/snow/ice. I think it was around 30% but don't quote me.
For those interested in another "All Weather" with snowflake, I am using the Yokohama G015. I have about 10k on them and one winter including a lot of slush and rain. I am very happy all around and can't stand storing and switching tires and rims twice a year. Also use an All Weather Nokian on my RAV4 but doesn't come in an AT size for the 4runner.
 
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But what is the real world difference in the rain? will C be a better tire in the rain then the E? I understand there will be a difference.

There are a lot of factors between C and E, especially based on the weight of the vehicle you are mounting them on. The difference in rain has likely not been tested between the two.
 
Over the years I have used many different BfGoodrich tires (KO's/KO2's/Rugged Trails/Rugged Terrains) on many different trucks (2-1st gen Tacomas/2nd gen Tacoma/2nd gen Tundra/Ford Bronco/ford Explorer) and I have always found rain traction to be okay at best in the Northeast. Over the last 12 years I average about 25k a year and for me most all terrain tires really don't cut it especially when the temperatures drop and its wet. I believe it has something to do with they compounds used but I am far from a tire expert. My go to tire is the Michelin LTX which I have not found one all terrain tire that even comes close to wet and ice traction performance of them. It is true that they do slip more in deeper snow and on muddy hunting trails but they always continue forward progress and they have never left me stranded in blizzards or in mud on any of my toyota pickups or SUV's. Now I realize these tires will not cut will not cut it when it comes to real offroading however anyone who is really interested in the KO2's really need to be honest with themselves in regards to their intended purpose of their vehicle. I did find the KO2's to be amazing in many scenarios but I sacrificed a lot in other areas. They do look bad ass but again those looks come at a price...
 
Made a decision Kumhos it is

I decided to replace my KO2s with Kumhos Road Ventures AT51. They seem to get great reviews. I ordered them from TireRack and they arrived in one day. I’m having them mount now. I can’t wait to see if I can feel the difference with just normal driving.
 
Roughly 20K on my E-rated KO2s going back and forth a number of times from Northeast to CO/WY/UT. Mostly prudent driving through all kinds of conditions - happy to report no loss of traction or other issues. Wearing evenly with regular 5K rotations.

Hope I didn't just jinx myself!
 
KO's

Like many unnecessary upgrades, it's all about the look and seldom about the needs for the conditions you run...
 
does anyone know what it takes to get the "snowflake" badge on a tire? how can a tire that performs so poorly in wet and snowy conditions be rated as a "snow" tire? Sounds like there are other tires that dont have the snowflake that do better?

Here. https://www.astm.org/Standards/F1805.htm

Here's who does the testing - https://www.smithersrapra.com/testi...automotive/tire-testing/snow-and-ice-traction

And here's more on the subject than you ever wanted to know - https://www.smithersrapra.com/resou...r-tire-traction-test-methods-and-requirements

Bottom line? Getting the snowflake symbol takes a shit ton of money. These guys are not cheap. On top of that, the symbol is mainly used for marketing and as a sales tool. For example, I know for a fact that the Cooper AT3 is a much better tire (no snowflake) than several "snowflake" tires. So, just because something is "rated" to do something (trail rated for example - Jeep lol) does not mean that is is the best or even as good as something that is not rated or graded. Always do your own research.
 
Also keep in mind that Smithers Rapra does not certify the tires for the snowflake symbol, they just do the testing. It is up to the tire manufacturer to self-certify in the U.S. Not sure if there is any regulatory oversight to ensure the tires actually pass the testing.
 
Huge Improvement

I have to say I'm shocked how much of an improvement these Kumho Road Ventures are over the KO2. The ride improvement is shocking. I will have to see what the rain and snow performance is like as we continue to head into winter.

I know there are diehard KO2 loyalists on this forum, I used to be one of them. Now I think I'm heading to the never-again camp.
 
reviving an old thread but can somone with 265/70/17 chime in with c rated ko2? wouldnlike to hear from someone with a good amount of mileage in wet conditions.
 
reviving an old thread but can somone with 265/70/17 chime in with c rated ko2? wouldnlike to hear from someone with a good amount of mileage in wet conditions.

I ran C load 265/70/r17 KO2s for about 30,000 miles and never had any issues in the wet. I'm now on 255/75/R17 KO2s, also C, only about 4,000 miles on them so far, but they've also been fine in wet.
 
Just about to put KO2 on

I am getting a new 4runner! But I am planning to install new KO2, living in Canada where snow and rain is part of life, I am second guessing. Are they so bad that I should reconsider?
 

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