Kung's Build Thread (pic heavy)

[cdrewferd]

Sorry to hear the new rack didn't fix all your problems. Hopefully you'll be able to track it down soon.

How do you think the rack is quality wise? Did the guys installing it say anything? I need to order mine soon.

 

[Kung]

Sorry to hear the new rack didn't fix all your problems. Hopefully you'll be able to track it down soon.

How do you think the rack is quality wise? Did the guys installing it say anything? I need to order mine soon.

Not much to say, to be honest, other than that it was in perfect condition, no mistakes (no accidentally torn boots, etc.) and seemed on visual inspection to be of higher quality than the crap you get from Auto Zone.

This being said, the proof's in the pudding, of course; I won't know for sure until a year or two (or hopefully more) down the road.

I should ALSO point out one very key thing: I chose to buy the new rack because I'm fairly sure the OTREs needed replacement (some leaks), and being as quality OTREs would cost me about $275 to $300, I figured it was worth it to pay the extra $200 and get the whole rack.

But there's still more than a few things that need to be done that I've not yet done - e.g., road force balancing, possible UCAs, possible driveshaft balance, differential lubrication, etc. In other words, the lack of disappearance of the problem can't at ALL be blamed on the rack. And it DID eliminate about 70% of the vibration.

 

[Rob P.]

Steering vibration comes from 2 sources.

If it vibrates while braking, the rotors are warped. Resurfacing the rotors and new pads usually fixes this. (It's not 100% because I have a GMC 2500 that did this but the rotors indicated true both sides. Apparently the rotors had some metallurgical anomaly that caused the surface to be "sticky" in one spot on one rotor. Replaced the rotors and it was fixed.)

If it vibrates at speed, the tires are out of balance AND/OR out of round (from bouncing or a slipped belt). Get the tires balanced and check for out of round. Replace the tires if out of round. Replace the shocks/struts while you're at it.

 

[hrt4me]

Kung/Matt, were you affected by all the flooding on FLW base and I-44 near Jerome?

 

[Kung]

Steering vibration comes from 2 sources.

If it vibrates while braking, the rotors are warped. Resurfacing the rotors and new pads usually fixes this. (It's not 100% because I have a GMC 2500 that did this but the rotors indicated true both sides. Apparently the rotors had some metallurgical anomaly that caused the surface to be "sticky" in one spot on one rotor. Replaced the rotors and it was fixed.)

If it vibrates at speed, the tires are out of balance AND/OR out of round (from bouncing or a slipped belt). Get the tires balanced and check for out of round. Replace the tires if out of round. Replace the shocks/struts while you're at it.

Thanks for the post. I know it's not the rotors, because a) they're brand new and b) as you mentioned, it does not pulsate/vibrate while braking.

It *could* be the tires, I suppose; I say this only because while I've had it 'road force balanced' (even at a place with the GSP3000, I think it's called), I haven't verified that they utilize the Haweka adapter.

When it was road force balanced, the vibrations were vastly minimized but still present. I know I need new shocks in the front - it bounces a bit more than it should. I'm thinking I'll replace those next, as I've already replaced

- steering rack bushings
- steering rack itself
- steering rack guide
- ITREs and OTREs and LBJs
- end link sway bar bushings
- tires

After that, I'm guessing it's time to move on to the U-joints.

 

[Kung]

Kung/Matt, were you affected by all the flooding on FLW base and I-44 near Jerome?

Sorry I just now saw this. We were for a few days; where I live, we're nice and high (in altitude :thumb but when we had all the rain & flooding, all but one exit was blocked.

(Side note: Being a 'd*** yankee' - editing mine - I thought it hilarious that I was surrounded by 'country boys' who pride themselves on being to survive with little more than a shotgun & 4x4...yet if all the major roads are closed, they consider themselves 'locked in.' LOL I did a good bit of serious 4-wheeling with the 4Runner and found some back roads you could get through....to me, that's 'being able to get out.')

When I moved here, I knew better than to buy a house @ low altitude, and this proved me right. On top of that, I just had a ton of drainage work done 2 years ago, so our ground got really wet, but that's about it. Thanks for checking in.

 

[Kung]

Anyways, question time, boyzngirls.

As posted before, I've replaced:

- OTREs/ITREs
- TBU
- steering rack guide
- steering rack bushings
- steering RACK (with the Safari LTD rack - works fantastic, btw)
- sway bar end link bushings
- end links themselves (will get some beefier ones soon)

...and yet the vibration persists. I've also road force balanced the tires (which helped a lot but did not get rid of it). I didn't verify they have/used the Haweka adapter, but they did use that GSP-3000 or whatever it's called. LOL

I'm thinking that, since I had my rear shocks replaced, it makes sense to get front shocks first and then, if I still experience vibration, to move on to U-joints. Thoughts on this?

 

[hrt4me]

I didn't verify they have/used the Haweka adapter, but they did use that GSP-3000 ...

what exactly do those terms denote?

 

[Kung]

My mistakes - it's a GSP-9700. And that's evidently one of the computerized balancers that's worth a darn.

The Haweka adapter is specifically an adapter that mounts to the wheels/hubs on our T4R's (since they are lug-central) to mount to the GSP-9700. This is done because most wheels are hub-central, and so balancing a lug-central wheel on a hub-central machine w/o an adapter will never get it balanced correctly.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

My factory wheels appear to be hub-centric. They fit very tightly on the center hub and more loosely on the lug nuts. I believe many aftermarket wheels used on T4Rs are lug-centric.

 

[Kung]

From what I gather, OEM 4Runner wheels are both hub- and lug-cenric; but using a Haweka flange plate adapter allows for (and has allowed for) much better balancing than sitting on the cone on a balancing machine.

 

[BlazeRunner]

Read the whole thread, digging the build. You're doing a bunch of stuff I've considered just for maintenance reasons and the ugly fact that I also have steering wheel vibrations at speed. How do your upper ball joints look? I saw you replaced everything else, I also wonder about control arm bushings.

Really thinking about it though, when I bought my runner it came with aftermarket wheels and tires and had horrible shaking at any speed above 25mph... I immediately went and got tires balanced and got the old 'wheels are bent' lecture, still had vibration right after, but it kinda tamed it. Now knowing about road force balancing and lug centric adapters it leads me to believe they didn't balance properly. I went to pepboys and paid $60 :tsk: I need to go find a place with one of those special machines and lug centric adapters cuz the vibration bothers me, I just don't want to start replacing things like you have and still have vibrations (no offense!) . I have fairly new shocks and springs, my ball joints could probably use replacement but I am convinced its my tires... my super long point is I think you should double check the tire balancing and make sure they do it right, I know I will before I move on to I&O TREs and bushings, joints etc.
Anyways, I plan on starting a build thread myself somewhat soon, I will be subbed watching yours in the background... I do a lot of reading and not so much posting. Cheers :usa2:

 

[Kung]

Read the whole thread, digging the build. You're doing a bunch of stuff I've considered just for maintenance reasons and the ugly fact that I also have steering wheel vibrations at speed. How do your upper ball joints look? I saw you replaced everything else, I also wonder about control arm bushings.

Uh, no clue actually. Frankly, as informative (both concerning the information found here and the willingness of members to share info) as the members here are, I figure that if the upper ball joints had a huge (or ANY) impact on steering vibration, I'd have noticed it by now.

That or I'm really behind the times. LOL

Really thinking about it though, when I bought my runner it came with aftermarket wheels and tires and had horrible shaking at any speed above 25mph... I immediately went and got tires balanced and got the old 'wheels are bent' lecture, still had vibration right after, but it kinda tamed it. Now knowing about road force balancing and lug centric adapters it leads me to believe they didn't balance properly. I went to pepboys and paid $60 :tsk: I need to go find a place with one of those special machines and lug centric adapters cuz the vibration bothers me, I just don't want to start replacing things like you have and still have vibrations (no offense!)

Too late, my feelers are hurt.

Seriously though, no worries. Some of the stuff I was told to replace needed to be replaced anyways (such as the OTREs/ITREs/LBJs). Some of the stuff served more of a purpose than just eliminating vibration (such as sway bar end link bushings, steering rack bushings, etc.) Some were things that had nothing to do with steering vibration (such as the TBU). So really the ONLY thing I spent money on that might be considered 'wasted' was the steering rack, but hey, at least now we know, huh? LOL

I WILL say this - not sure if the Ford dealership (yeah, I know I know, but they ARE dependable, and the Toyota dealership nearby is *NOT*) uses the Haweka adapter, as noted above, but I know they have the GSP9700, and the Firestone dealership where I got my new tires does not.

The Ford dealership RFB'd my tires/wheels, and other than a small jiggle coming from the front left, it was smooth. The Firestone RFB sux a big one. LOL

I have fairly new shocks and springs, my ball joints could probably use replacement but I am convinced its my tires... my super long point is I think you should double check the tire balancing and make sure they do it right, I know I will before I move on to I&O TREs and bushings, joints etc.

Oh no doubt no doubt. At least now you know that 95% of the stuff I've done to my vehicle wasn't done solely or simply to eliminate vibration.

Anyways, I plan on starting a build thread myself somewhat soon, I will be subbed watching yours in the background... I do a lot of reading and not so much posting. Cheers :usa2:

Thanks man - will keep an eye out for yours as well.

 

[Kung]

Note to self: Don't buy stuff from Firestone anymore.

As noted in my very first post, I'd purchased a set of Firestone Destination A/T's, I think they were. Given the craptastic tires I had before that (Jetzon, anyone?), they shook too...but after a year going by, I've realized that there's something wrong with the tires, I thought.

And I was right. I've replaced the steering rack and bushings, ITREs/OTREs/LBJs, had the rims themselves without tires balanced, had the tires road force balanced 3x, had the driveshaft checked out and the driveline lubed, etc.

Nothing helped much. I finally went and listed everything I'd done and basically baffled them with brilliance. (Actually, all I did was tell them that if the tire was out of round, rotating them to the rear should significantly change the ride. It did, big time.)

After blaming everything under the sun for a few months, they *FINALLY* found today that one of my tires was out of round. They're replacing it under warranty.

I HOPE to get it lifted in the next few months. However, what with the gov't shutdown (I was originally furloughed on 1 October, but was exempt on 6 October as an IT guy) and my wife quitting her job, mods will either be a) tight or b) done by me as I have time.

 

[cdrewferd]

Glad you finally got your shake figured out. How about some updated pics?

 

[Kung]

Glad you finally got your shake figured out. How about some updated pics?

I would but nothing of consequence has been done, other than I accidentally pressure-washed some of the paint off the running board on the passenger side.

Which gives me a reason to have sliders now. :biggrin1: So those will probably be next as well as an installation of a 10" sub and Alpine amp I already have. A lift will probably be early next year.

 

[Kung]

Ok, so back to the drawing board concerning vibrations. I've been pretty sure the local guys @ the Firestone were giving me crap; it just so happened that another board (I know, I know) (MO4WD) has a member who works for Hunter Engineering, and he referred me to another Firestone location where he KNEW the guys there were properly trained to utilize their RFB.

Turns out a friend of mine and fellow church member works there, so I guess I'll be bringing the 4Runner there from now on. LOL ANYWAYS...they asked me "Who balanced this?" It appears that despite supposedly being RFB'd, the thing wasn't even meeting normal balancing specs.

So, good news - it's dead-on balanced.

Bad news - thing STILL vibrates, so I'm bringing it back to them next Monday; I'm thinking CV joint(s) or U-joint. We'll see....I'm not really going to mod anything unless/until I get this fixed.

 

[Kung]

OK, so one of the local shops (John's Firestone in Rolla, MO) has had my vehicle for the last week and 2 days. I was a bit chafed at the amount of time it was taking until the actual tech called me and told me "The reason we're taking so long is because I'm working on it in between official jobs so as to not have to charge you any labor."

OH. Carry on then.

They FINALLY got back to me today, and let me know they definitively (supposedly) found the problem.

It was a bent rim.

I was like "You're @!#$%$ me."

Supposedly, just as with the other places, they could NOT get one rim to balance. (All of them are a bit sketchy, they say, but 3 out of 4 can be semi-easily balanced.)

So they road force balanced the rims with the tires both on AND off (I didn't even know that could be done?) and when they did so, one of the rims just was going nuts on the machine. So they inspected it and sure enough it's miscast or something like that.

So he told me "My apologies but if I were you I'd buy another set of rims."

I somehow managed to look upset on the outside while on the inside...

So I guess I get to start looking for a cheap set of steel rims. Any recommendations?

 

[cdrewferd]

Wow, that sucks. Hope you are able to find some rims you like. I wonder if that's my problem. I've got a shake that I just can't track down.

 

[Kung]

Well, I'd seriously consider it; the one thing that kept drawing them back to the wheels before anything else is the fact that rotation of the tires kept moving the vibration.