Laughed at about T4R Price...rant

[T4RBoarder]

I've only have my '07 FJ for about two months but some potential things may have come up and the possibility of having to ditch my car payment may be in the cards. Anyway, I went to look at a potential candidate I had saw in passing while I was down in cincinnati which was an '04 SE V8 4WD w/105k miles on it. Overall the exterior of the truck was in great condition, great carfax (minor accident but no replaced panels on the truck), has records, drove beautifully but needs a balance, brake job, and a TB WP job. I figured it'd be worth getting if the dealer would lower the price (they have it listed for $16,900).

I went in knowing what these go for (Bought my '03 LTD almost two years ago for 12.5 OTD) and asked the guy how much he would move on the price. He was eating lunch and didn't even get up or stop shoving his mouth full of food to talk. I told him what these were going for and he legitimately starting laughing at me and said it couldn't be true that I got one for that price. He then followed to ask where I bought mine and when I responded he snapped back that he did not care where I had bought it, he wouldn't be moving on the price at all ("they don't mark their prices up"...BS). I then proceeded to say I would keep and eye on it and be back when the price dropped to a decent amount...he laughed as I walked out the door.

I was irate walking out, everything I could do to not bite his head off...and I have a decent temper (work in wireless customer service). I'll keep an eye on the truck cause it's a good find but man don't ever laugh at me.

Rant over....was I that crazy asking for a better price??

 

[4Runner8]

no and i personally beleive every salesmen are d1cks. i think you should look longer for local listings too cause usually those ppl gotta sell and will make a deal with you if you put cash in their face.

 

[chayos00]

What an a$$! Here's what I found from edmonds. He's on crack.
Trade-In $11,182 Private Party $12,593 Dealer Retail $13,843

 

[charlier180]

<snip> Anyway, I went to look at a potential candidate I had saw in passing while I was down in cincinnati which was an '04 SE V8 4WD w/105k miles on it. Overall the exterior of the truck was in great condition <snip>
Rant over....was I that crazy asking for a better price??

Before buying any used 4th generation 4Runner in any part of the USA that uses salt on the roads in winter, I would have it put on a lift and CLOSELY EXAMINE the undercarriage. The body panels & interior on my 4Runner look great. The undercarriage, frame, suspension, brake calipers and various other parts are RUSTING A LOT.

Just the other day my brother (a former 3rd gen owner) looked at those area on my 4Runner. Now he understands why I say that RUST will cause the (premature) death of my 4Runner.

I can never hurt to ask for a better price. The lack of a professional response on the part of the salesperson SPEAKS VOLUMES about both the person and the dealership they work for. Those are the types of salespeople and dealerships that don't ever see me or my hard earned money.

 

[4Runner8]

What an a$$! Here's what I found from edmonds. He's on crack.
Trade-In $11,182 Private Party $12,593 Dealer Retail $13,843

wow thats gettting down there in the low price range for a super nice 4runner. cant wait till like 4-5 years when you can get an 08 for that price

 

[FourEyedWilly]

Wow, some dealerships are nukin futz. I just bought wifey the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee and it was a breeze! Very nice staff and gave us top dollar for our trade in. (DAMN JEEP did a good job on the redesign by the way)

Anyway, I saw a Toy in the dealer down the street that looked interesting and I wanted to see what the trade in value for the 4Runner was. Told me an 05 Jeep Wrangler with a cheapy lift was worth 18K and my 4Runner, 13K. LOL!!

I have an 06 SE V8 with 39K miles, mint. He started to argue with me about mechanicals on both. My favorite part, he tried to pull the "can't find your keys" move. I walked behind the dealer counter and grabbed them.

They were not too happy about that. :frisky:

 

[Asmara]

If it is a real dealership, call them up and ask for the internet sales manager (if they don't have one ask for the fleet manager who often handle the internet sales). Ask him what the reserve price on the truck is. They will usually just quote the lowest price the dealership will take before they send it off to a wholesaler. These guys don't work on commission so they don't worry about the price.

I've purchased both my 4Runners by finding them on the internet and then calling the dealership. The reserve price is usually right around the Edmunds True Market Value retail price - which is supposed to be the price that the trucks are selling for not the asking price like with the KBB.

 

[cdoyle]

Personally, I would never go back to the dealership again. If they treat you like that, when you're trying to buy a car. Just imagine how their service will be after you buy it, and by any chance have a problem with it.

 

[Flyer]

Always worth talking to the internet guy- avoid the floor guys if possible. So first suck them in by stating you're interested and can buy it today or tomorrow (or whatever). Talk about it and get him thinking he has a potential sale. After that, tell them what you're willing to pay and check out the reaction. they will easily go $1K below asking so you want to try for $2,500. It does help if you're actually in the dealership at this point. If it isn't a true internet special which is already marked down from the lot price, they usually mark them up by $3K-$4K over what they paid.

 

[T4RBoarder]

Before buying any used 4th generation 4Runner in any part of the USA that uses salt on the roads in winter, I would have it put on a lift and CLOSELY EXAMINE the undercarriage. The body panels & interior on my 4Runner look great. The undercarriage, frame, suspension, brake calipers and various other parts are RUSTING A LOT.

That's one of the things I like about this truck, it seems to be fairly clean underneath when i took a look at it...definitely better compared to my '03. Plus, my buddy is an ex toyo tech so I'd have him to a look over with me as well.


I'm gonna try giving the internet manager a call tomorrow and see what he says otherwise I'll walk and keep looking elsewhere. I sure hope it's not the same guy otherwise I'll hang up.

edit: Should I mention how I was initially treated or leave that out for now?

 

[4Runner8]

sounds like a plan. what flyer said is a good idea to do. i dont know much about buyin cars, as i have yet to reach that point in my life. haha im still driving my hand me down from the old man. but it would seem like a good idea i guess to tell him how you were treated in person. but idk, id wait for another reply

 

[Flyer]

Here's what you say (ask for the Sales Manager if possible; not necessarily Internet Sales- try to avoid that guy):

"Hey look, I'm serious about buying a SUV (keep it open) but if you have put too much in it, I understand that. I can't do THE (not "your") asking price but if you have room to move, I'll come in and talk."

Check the reaction. If the manager says he has no room to move, you know where you stand. If he asks you to come in, target $15K. If he asks you how much will you pay- tell him "$14,900 right now". If he laughs, tell him "c'mon now, laughing at a customer has no place in a negotiation" and act dead serious. Be ready to walk- don't let them visibly rattle you and DO NOT act super intrested in that specific vehicle. If you're near it, turn away from it walk away a bit, and act like you're looking around. Don't stay close to it.

Don't act rattled, be ready to walk (there WILL be others- trust me) and try to deal with a manager. They are all scumbags- remember that. However, they are well-trained Closers and rely on your emotional attachment to the vehicle so don't ever let on that you love it. It's a game and those effing dirtbags deserve nothing more than your disdain. Remember- if you walk away, they get zilch and they know it- they are simply working your mind and betting you will buckle or come back.

To clear your head, go to a couple of other dealerships and drive a few other 4Runners...trust me on this.

 

[4Runner8]

^^ awesome advice, flyer you know your stuff. im taking notes for future guidance haha thanks!

 

[ecrew16]

Salesmen are so disrespectful. If you feel disrespected when they are treating you as a customer, think about how they treat fellow employees. No incentives there lol

 

[Flyer]

There are different levels of car salesman, of course. I'd guess 20%-30% are actually decent but most are scumbags. Many have criminal records and not much education. They sometimes brag about how much commission they have made off relatives. The don't care about people or about anything but their commission. They do all they can to avoid making a "mini" which is the minimum commission they make if they sell at the absolute lowest prices. A "mini" is usually $250. They generally make 25% of the profit the dealership makes. The target is $400-$500 for the salesman. They almost all lie, all the time- from small lies to big lies to things they have never done yet brag about...just to position the sale and make you relate to them.

Trust me, they are NOT like us. They are (mostly) a different and scummy breed of people who need to be to dealt with methodically or they will get that extra $500 or $1,000 from you without you having a clue. They are like insurance salesman; not the sales guy at Best Buy.

The manager only comes to you after the salesman feels like he is losing control of you. He is the head scumbag. If he has come to you after an impasse with the salesman, it means you are negotiating well....keep going and don't appear impressed with the manager- fvck him because he is simply the Closer...and probably VERY good at it (unless YOU happen to be a Closer or negotiator as well- maybe in another line of business). In that case, he will soon know he has no chance and let you walk. He does that to see if you will. Most of the time, people actually come back.

Never ever take the new car to "think it over". That's a very effective trick as well. Never leave your trade-in with them or the keys with them- ever. After they evaluate your trade, ask for the vehicle and the keys before going forward. Never let the wife or deal with them- they LOVE that. They drool if the wife/gf starts to talk to them. Instruct the wife/gf/friend to look at YOU when asked a question by the scumbag...and not answer. They HATE that. It drives them effing crazy. They are way more effective with women in general so they work the women. I cannot begin to tell you how many females they rip off in sales and service.





I have met a TON of salesmen. Some were actually very nice people but most were scum...people I would never want to associate with on a personal level. The F&I guys are like sharks...waiting to attack after the bottom-feeder salesman brings you in after closing the deal.

 

[4Runner8]

how do you know all this flyer?? haha great stuff

 

[Flyer]

So a long time ago, I was just out of college and broke as hell. I had a full time job as a financial analyst but it paid crap and anyway- long story short...I took a job as a part-time salesman at this new and HUGE Dodge dealership. I worked 3-4 evenings and ever Sat urtay. What a shock that was! The owner was actually decent to me since he knew I wasn't a scumbag but I learned every trick in the book that they use on customers. I simply could not take it anymore and after about four months, I quit. It left a terrible taste in my mouth- they treated people so badly and conned them left and right. I was one of two decent guys there (around 35 salesmen). I even turned some poor saps away but I did pretty well, especially on Sat urdays.

Since I had a full-time job, I didn't have to screw people over nor would I either way. The stories I can tell you about some of these guys would really shock you. I am not kidding about criminal histories and scumbag moves on close relatives. So now you know how I know.

 

[4Runner8]

daaaaaammmmnnnnnnn, haha i got ya, i had a hunch that you had a minute amount of experiance with it and since you talked bad about them i figured you quit and got another job.

thats terrible scammin your own family members!! who does that?

 

[Flyer]

It was just a part-time gig way back in the mid 90s. This is why I do not like to go into dealerships, especially the big ones. In fact, after I quit, they refused to pay me for two of my last Sat urday's sales. I just said eff it- could not make myself go back in and talk to them.

No big deal, I soon found another job that paid me much better and I chalked this up to a learning experience. It actually has served me well...my boss asks me to show up for the really tough negotiations she knows she will have trouble with.

 

[8086bruce]

no and i personally beleive every salesmen are d1cks. i think you should look longer for local listings too cause usually those ppl gotta sell and will make a deal with you if you put cash in their face.

I sold cars for ten years and now have sold modulars homes for nine does that make me a D1ck or a scumbag???