LBJs tight at 310 thou

[Previologist]

Checked my LBJs today, had been thinking about not ignoring them any longer. But both are tight. Kinda surprised honestly, but I guess I can keep ignoring them for a while. Got plenty of other things I can't ignore. I might buy some while they are "cheap" though

 

[pluton]

I bought new replacement LBJs for my 100K miles ball joints about a year ago. I still haven't put them in, due to laziness and that my 4x4ing has been reduced in recent years. My speculation(based on the stories told here): The failures of the lower ball joints are due to sudden catastrophic failure of the cup. They didn't die from gradual wear between ball and cup over many years, but due to stress cracks gradually building in the cup surrounding the ball. They feel tight, right up to when until they fail. There seems to be a lot of variation in the miles/time to failure, which might be explained by slight differences in the metal mix or heat treating that shouldn't matter, but do matter because of the stress the LBJ design puts on the integrity of the metal in the cup. Just speculation..

 

[96RedRunner]

Was explaining LBJ's to unknowing 4runner owner Lowes parking lot, LBJ separated as they were leaving lot.
Two blocks from interstate and 70 mph put it off long as you like your call.

 

[3bears]

congrats on hitting 310 on your 4runner and amazing you have gone 310 on stock lower ball joints. I would not trust them much more.

 

[Previologist]

Was explaining LBJ's to unknowing 4runner owner Lowes parking lot, LBJ separated as they were leaving lot.
Two blocks from interstate and 70 mph put it off long as you like your call.

Remind me not to talk to you in a Lowe's parking lot.

Mine has never been offroaded. I've driven it on a number of forest roads, some of them quite poor, but the number of miles in those conditions is low. The single previous owner was meticulous.

Now if I see that Toyota recommends changing them at a certain interval I will do it right away because I'm sure I've exceeded that interval. But I don't think they do. I have no doubt they CAN fail catastrophically, and at this mileage if I see any signs of trouble they will be gone in a flash,

 

[clearock]

They didn't die from gradual wear between ball and cup over many years, but due to stress cracks gradually building in the cup surrounding the ball. They feel tight, right up to when until they fail.

What? Please explain this to me.... How many ball-joints on Toyota's have to changed, or any make vehicle for that matter? Can you also explain to me how your inspecting your ball-joints... what process do you use to "shake down a suspension" to check for wear?

ball-joints definitely do die from "gradual wear between ball and cup over many years". There is a even an amount of play listed in service manuals. Pretty sure @timmythetoolman even has a video on how checking said.

Catastrophic failures can and do happen but that's normally because of how the owner is using the vehicle, ie off-roading, etc. or from when someone drive's there vehicle into the ground with out doing normal maintains (and it's not catastrophic failure of the joint at this point, its people not listening to what there vehicale is telling them as the drive down the road.

 

[96RedRunner]

Remind me not to talk to you in a Lowe's parking lot.

Good luck Bad luck, 6 of one half dozen of another

96Red IIRC 285k+- did the experiment, used dial indicator often wear within limits rotating torque lower limit.
The 01 198k new ones after purchase, experiment time, dial indicator often base line.
Dual lockers Andy Mod paying attention has its benefits, 100k got my money's worth.

 

[96RedRunner]

What? ball-joints definitely do die from "gradual wear between ball and cup over many years". There is a even an amount of play listed in service manuals.

What he said.
Materials used are for just that hardened steel ball in a cast cup weak link is design.
Magnetic base flexible neck dial indicator once you get it down, to easy not to do at tire rotation.
FSM SUS section don't remember page.

 

[phattyduck]

Checked my LBJs today, had been thinking about not ignoring them any longer. But both are tight.

Did you check them with a dial indicator using the factory technique?

They will ALWAYS seem tight unless you check them correctly...

That said, I got 18 years and 272k miles on my original set. That was at stock height, 2WD and fire roads only for offroading (though it did see a fair amount of fire road miles every summer).

Now with a lift, 4WD and some high speed offroading (rally stuff), I am replacing the LBJs again after around 50k miles - and I'll replace them again in another 50k if/when I get there...

-Charlie

 

[Previologist]

Did you check them with a dial indicator using the factory technique?

-Charlie

Haaaaaaail no lol. But I did look at them again and see some grease I I didn't notice before from the driver side LBJ, so its time to order the first ball joint now and the 2nd one will only be a paycheck or 3 behind the first.

 

[phattyduck]

Haaaaaaail no lol. But I did look at them again and see some grease I I didn't notice before from the driver side LBJ, so its time to order the first ball joint now and the 2nd one will only be a paycheck or 3 behind the first.

Yeah, there is literally no way to check the ball joints without a dial indicator. On the vehicle, they are heavily pre-loaded and won't move by any visual amount without the right procedure... So, ticking time bomb, since the failure is catastrauphic. No rattling ball joint and loose steering, just a wheel and knuckle breaking off the truck.

-Charlie

 

[96RedRunner]

Is a way to check without Dial Indicator.
Lift front end off ground jack point rack crossmember center rack bolt.
Insert prybar per FSM procedure pry on LBJ, see movement with naked eye You are at the Oh Chit of things.

 

[Previologist]

Is a way to check without Dial Indicator.
Lift front end off ground jack point rack crossmember center rack bolt.
Insert prybar per FSM procedure pry on LBJ, see movement with naked eye You are at the Oh Chit of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu2rQMxXV2M&t

 

[96RedRunner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu2rQMxXV2M&t

What I'm talking about good Vid, wear limit is 0.5mm (0.020").
1/16" mentioned in video trust 0.0425" over spec spend $250 on LBJ's. No brainer.
Final Destination events happen; example my avatar roof/hood ride no fun.

 

[clearock]

Worn ball-joints can be visual ascertained by reading tire wear. Learning to read tire wear gives an operator a wealth of information on the condition of a vehicles suspension.

 

[phattyduck]

Worn ball-joints can be visual ascertained by reading tire wear. Learning to read tire wear gives an operator a wealth of information on the condition of a vehicles suspension.

Not so much with the heavily negatively loaded ball joints that we have (in the lowers). Very few have reported any signs before catastrophic failure.

-Charlie

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=222826]clearock[/MENTION] Oh Lort you went there :laugh: Tru Dat!
"Learning to read tire wear" Wear pattern center of the web.
Manipulating what you're reading/tread wear has different avenues.
DD Patagonia MT shy 5yrs 20k mi. been interesting.

 

[clearock]

Not so much with the heavily negatively loaded ball joints that we have (in the lowers). Very few have reported any signs before catastrophic failure.

-Charlie

Sry, but going to have to completely disagree with this, what individuals reports on forms like this, vs taking your vehicle to a good shop that understands what they are looking at, is different then a layman like most on this site reading said. Looking at tire wear is one of the first things I was taut to do, when going to look at any vehicle (And I primarily deal with Toyotas these days). Now there and different components/issues that can cause the same wear but it gives you a starting point to begin one's investigation. All this talk is a moot point if individuals just change their ball-joints as the maintain schedule says and with good quality components (i've had moog parts fail in under 3 months). The idea that I am reading on this discussion makes it sound like we are driving around just hoping are ball-joints do not catastrophic fail, there are a number of signs and indicators, most people just are able to understand what their vehicle is saying to them. If this were the case, Toyota's and all makes with this design would have been banded from USA long ago, IMO. As we all know Toyota's tend to get many more miles and years of service vs domestic, and as more of these aged and high mile units are sold, traded, passed down (general to individuals with less than enough money ir understanding on performing basics maintains) and then driven into the ground until something fails we will here increasing numbers of stores about how "there was no sign or indication of this or that... when it's was just out of ignorance or a lack of experience.

 

[96RedRunner]

Looking at tire wear is one of the first things I was taut to do,
when it's was just out of ignorance or a lack of experience.[/QUOTE]

Went to same school taught by ol'Timers.

Slack deserved for some. Have made it a point I see 3rd Gen and it doable this is the topic.
Since Tacoma recall most didn't know key gas go type glad to hear. Lowes lot had heard lifted big tires.

 

[clearock]

[/QUOTE] 96RedRunner Slack deserved for some [/QUOTE]

Do not mean anything by the back and fourth, just people sharing info/ideas/exp. [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION] is a very knowledgeable individual and I've learned a number of things from his posts, his technical know is amazing. My mind enjoys the mental exercise of having to validate one's thoughts/positions. I hope there's never to many hard feelings from any post I make.