Back Seat Windows Inoperable

[psea17]

Noticed my back seat windows became inoperable. First, the passenger side back seat wouldn't work from the master switch or the switch on the back seat door. Then the driver's side back seat would only go down from the back seat switch. The driver's master switch wouldn't operate it.

Today, I noticed that the driver's side back seat window is no longer working at all, even from it's own switch in the back seat. So both back seat switches aren't working and neither is the driver's master switch for those windows. However both front seat windows will operate from their respective switches or the driver's master switch.

Things checked:

1. fuse. (by your knee). it's the 10a in the upper right corner. looked good.
2. toggled the master window lock switch. it worked on the passenger front window. of course I can't check it for any of the others.
3. wiring. I pulled both back seat switches out (dont need to remove the door panel to do it). I am getting 12v to both.

If you'd like to test yours, it's the pins 1 in from the edge (blue/red + & green wires -) go to those pins.

4. Switch. I switched my meter to continuity and checked the corresponding pins to the blue/red & green wires.NEITHER switch had continuity. I'm thinking this is the problem. Going to hunt down some switches and will report back.

Hope this helps someone else diagnose wiring at the very least.

I'm wondering if the back seat switches are bad, would that affect the master switch's ability to operate them?? Anyone know?

Thanks!

 

[TheDurk]

On these cars, I always suspect the harnesses between the doors and the body. This goes double for the symptom set you have. That's also why you need to verify the grounds as well as the 12V+ when troubleshooting.

 

[phattyduck]

On these cars, I always suspect the harnesses between the doors and the body. This goes double for the symptom set you have. That's also why you need to verify the grounds as well as the 12V+ when troubleshooting.

Along with that, I would assume a driver's door issue before either/both of the rear doors - that's the one that gets flexed most often.

-Charlie

 

[psea17]

On these cars, I always suspect the harnesses between the doors and the body. This goes double for the symptom set you have. That's also why you need to verify the grounds as well as the 12V+ when troubleshooting.

are the back door grounds to the switch inside ea respective door?

given I found 12v at each door switch connector, can the ground still be an issue?

 

[psea17]

Man, I'm stumped!

-switches have 12v at ea respective rear door switch.
-master lock switch is working (it's preventing the front passenger door's window from operating.
-swapped in a new master window switch in the driver's door.
-swapped in a new switch at the driver's back seat door.
-10a fuse under the steering wheel is fine

SAME PROBLEM.

So it's not the switches.

What else, other than the master switch in the driver's door could be affecting both windows??

TOTALLY STUMPED.

 

[phattyduck]

Man, I'm stumped!

-switches have 12v at ea respective rear door switch.
-master lock switch is working (it's preventing the front passenger door's window from operating.
-swapped in a new master window switch in the driver's door.
-swapped in a new switch at the driver's back seat door.
-10a fuse under the steering wheel is fine

SAME PROBLEM.

So it's not the switches.

What else, other than the master switch in the driver's door could be affecting both windows??

TOTALLY STUMPED.

I'm basing this off '97 diagrams, but those should match your '98...

The blue-red power supplies 12V, but the actual switching is a 'ground' signal that must pass through both the master and switch at the door. As each of those wires breaks, you will lose that function at both the master and door switch (one wire for up, one for down). The windows function without a direct ground reference except through the master switch which then goes back to the chassis.

The master switch needs both of the wires to be connected to operate the window up or down, so that is why it loses functionality 'faster' than the door switch.

Fix that driver's door harness.

-Charlie

 

[Blitz]

I hope you figure it out. I hate doing electrical stuff and I didn't even try to diagnose mine. Thinking I might have the same issue

 

[TheDurk]

I'm basing this off '97 diagrams, but those should match your '98...

The blue-red power supplies 12V, but the actual switching is a 'ground' signal that must pass through both the master and switch at the door. As each of those wires breaks, you will lose that function at both the master and door switch (one wire for up, one for down). The windows function without a direct ground reference except through the master switch which then goes back to the chassis.

The master switch needs both of the wires to be connected to operate the window up or down, so that is why it loses functionality 'faster' than the door switch.

Fix that driver's door harness.

-Charlie

This. For example, the lockout switch operates by interrupting the ground signal to both windows. There is no 'local' ground in each door for this reason. There are four grounds normally to the rear doors from the the master switch, two to each side. and then one for each side of the motor. Steady state, the window motor has ground to both wires. It will work when one side or the other (up or down) is changed from a ground to either the local 12+ by the rear switch or by the master switch in the driver door. So the grounds are by far the more important part of the circuit. If you don't have ground on any of the four wires in ths doors, then that wire is cut off from the master switch.
This is the '98 EWD. And Charlie is right, check that driver door harness. Failing that, carry out the tests in "Service Hints" on p. 183 and we should know where to go next.

 

[psea17]

Thanks guys!

I think I understand. There's 2 grounds to ea rear window. Ea used to operate the window in the opposite direction. It's a wiring problem. Not a switch problem. Looks like I need to trace some wires! I definitely have one ground at ea window. The other, likely required to lower ea window is my problem given they're both in the closed position.

Much appreciated!

 

[psea17]

This. For example, the lockout switch operates by interrupting the ground signal to both windows. There is no 'local' ground in each door for this reason. There are four grounds normally to the rear doors from the the master switch, two to each side. and then one for each side of the motor. Steady state, the window motor has ground to both wires. It will work when one side or the other (up or down) is changed from a ground to either the local 12+ by the rear switch or by the master switch in the driver door. So the grounds are by far the more important part of the circuit. If you don't have ground on any of the four wires in ths doors, then that wire is cut off from the master switch.
This is the '98 EWD. And Charlie is right, check that driver door harness. Failing that, carry out the tests in "Service Hints" on p. 183 and we should know where to go next.

As someone who doesn't understand electrical schematics, having page 182 with the diagrams SUPER HELPS me understand power/ground's paths. I dare say a touch of enlightenment! MUCH APPRECIATED.

 

[TheDurk]

Thanks guys!

I think I understand. There's 2 grounds to ea rear window. Ea used to operate the window in the opposite direction. It's a wiring problem. Not a switch problem. Looks like I need to trace some wires! I definitely have one ground at ea window. The other, likely required to lower ea window is my problem given they're both in the closed position.

Much appreciated!

Just to clarify, it's the wire that is interrupted. That wire can be either a ground or 12V+ if that is what the master switch sends down that wire in order to operate the window.

 

[psea17]

if im understanding the diagram, i need to trace the wire to pin 2 (green ground) of ea switch. looks like ea side runs to the fr seats' kick panels on their respective sides (IE2, IL2). then they meet at IF2 on driver's kick panel.

Think ill start w/ IF2 since both arent working.

am i close or am i totally off?

 

[TheDurk]

if im understanding the diagram, i need to trace the wire to pin 2 (green ground) of ea switch. looks like ea side runs to the fr seats' kick panels on their respective sides (IE2, IL2). then they meet at IF2 on driver's kick panel.

Think ill start w/ IF2 since both arent working.

am i close or am i totally off?

No, that's it. Definitely start at IF2, because the likely fail is the harness to the driver door. If those grounds aren't at IF2, that's your smoking gun for the door harness. You will probably want the pinouts for IF2 on p. 41 here:

 

[psea17]

expanded my learning!

MUCH THANKS ?

 

[psea17]

BY FAR, one of the best things about owning a 4runner is this forum and its contributors! THANK YOU ALL!

After looking at all relays/connections, everything looked good. So I shifted to investigating the viper alarm. turns out 2 pins had broken and one was loose. Went to 3 auto parts stores, no one had the pins needed. So i went to a car stereo/alarm installer and sure as shit, the guy had exactly what i needed, the entire connection w/ all new wires/pins. He said it had been sitting there for years since they don't install those types of connections anymore. Charged me $5. Removed the pins w/ the wire attached, cut the wire and spliced it into my truck. DONE. Both windows working. Unfortunately, the loose one is too loose. It slipped back out during installation of the door panel. So the passenger side isn't working ATM. In a rush to get out of town. Heading to the San Juans in CO for some trail runs. As long as the driver's rear window goes down....the pup will be happy. Mission accomplished...for now.

Again, thanks to everyone who chimed in w/ ideas and guidance! Cheers!

pc

 

[brillo_76]

On these cars, I always suspect the harnesses between the doors and the body. This goes double for the symptom set you have. That's also why you need to verify the grounds as well as the 12V+ when troubleshooting.

+1 with the Durk suggestion