Lets group E-mail Toyota demanding V8

[charlier180]

1. Toyota owners are often loyal to the brand.
2. Toyota 4Runner owners are often extremely loyal to the brand and model.
3. the economy has put new vehicle sales figures in the crapper, so existing customers (while certainly always important) are arguably more so than before. in this market, you want your loyalists to be compelled to upgrade.
4. Toyota has released a redesigned 4Runner that—while offered at more or less the same price—is missing two significant, high-profile capabilities/options (Torsen diff & V8) that were standard/available across-the-board on the previous model.
5. Toyota 4Runner owners (with the Torsen & V8, anyway) must determine whether or not they're willing/able to "do without" and shell out for a new model—but there's a perceived negative.

[/INDENT]

My 4Runner is my first Toyota so I do not have a long history of loyalty to the brand (unless you count the last 6 years of ownership). Prior to my 4Runner I have owned only VWs for that last 25 years. When it came time to find a mid-sized SUV with the capabilities I needed VW simply did not have a vehicle that met those needs (don't get me started on their SUV). Therefore a VERY loyal VW customer left that brand and came to Toyota.

My 4Runner has done everything I asked and expected it to do. It has not left me sit by the side of the road or stuck me with expensive maintenance or repair bills. My dealer (both sales and service) has done everything I have asked and expected them to do as well. Most of all I have not had to make extra trips back to the dealer because they did not perform their work properly (unlike multiple VW dealers).

One thing I can add to your post is that from a business perspective it COSTS MUCH LESS to keep a loyal customer than it does to attract a new customer. That is business 101. I guess Toyota has forgotten that in their quest to cut costs. It is interesting that they are willing to drive customers away that think the very highly of their 4Runner product (and incur the higher costs of finding new customers). Hey, that is their (business) decision just like it may very well be my (business) decision to find a non-Toyota product to fulfill my needs in the future. If that happens it will be a sad day for me since I love my 4Runner and my dealer however, business is business.

 

[mikeync]

The people complaining about the 4Runner lacking the V8 go look at the thread about having a TE as rental. That is a 4Runner V8 owner talking there.

For those that wants the 4Runner for towing - you got a point

Keeping customers is cheaper than getting new ones. Keeping customers that buy a car that you are not making money on is not a good business decision. If you can drive 50% of those to a profitable model and loose 50% that is better than keeping 100% and loosing money on them.

I don't know for a fact that Toyota was loosing money on the V8 models, but from some heavy research into the auto industry a few years ago - trust me Toyota knows what they are doing.

 

[westwind77]

Does anyone have sales figues on the split for 06' - 09' on V6 vs V8 sold? I know when I was looking at used ones V8's were near impossible to find (before the 10's were announced). So 1) either there are not many around compared to the V6's or 2) people who have them do not want to let them go. If Toyota barely sold many 8's I could see as a company why they would up the 6's hp and dump the 8. Sure they may loose some people but with the new gen they figure they will gain people too (which I am one). It all comes down to cost, if they thought they could make money dropping an 8 into these machines I am sure they would, what company turns DOWN money!

 

[sandcrawler]

The people complaining about the 4Runner lacking the V8 go look at the thread about having a TE as rental. That is a 4Runner V8 owner talking there.

true, however the OP also says: (and i apologize for muddying the waters with mention of the Torsen; this is a V8 thread, after all.)

I do not like the 4WD setup and would miss the Torsen center diff especially when the wife takes it(it loses its simplicity for those with no manual lever 4x4 experience). I had a 2000 4R and know how it works

I don't know for a fact that Toyota was loosing money on the V8 models, but from some heavy research into the auto industry a few years ago - trust me Toyota knows what they are doing.

much as i've enjoyed my Toyotas over the years, Akio Toyoda himself may disagree on this point. he himself has been quoted as saying that Toyota is “grasping for salvation” and that they "have to listen to [their] customers and make better cars.” he just took the helm in 6/09, so it's unlikely that any of his influence is manifest in the design of the 2010 4Runner.

it's pure conjecture, but it's possible that the 2011+ 4Runner may incorporate a few changes. look how quickly the 2003's cladding was dumped from the 2004 model—and that was without a top-down change in leadership. just sayin'…

 

[nighthawk]

I say for everyone who has any grievances of any type on the new 4Runner to email Toyota to let them know your views. Not just about the V8, but about any other things you don't like about the new one. For me, I emailed them complimenting them on the fact that they went back to a mechanical 4WD selector (as I dislike the electric transfer cases) and then complained about the fact that there hasn't been a manual transmission 4Runner offered since after the 2000MY. I had a long answer telling me what I expected them to say, but the fact that someone personally responded to all my questions and comments was nice. It may have to do with how you email them as I know some people just get generic responses. At least if enough people write, then they may re-look into things.

 

[M1911]

I say for everyone who has any grievances of any type on the new 4Runner to email Toyota to let them know your views.

I did that in October of last year.

 

[sandcrawler]

I did that in October of last year.

ditto. i also followed up with another email after test-driving the 2010.
it certainly can't hurt.

 

[bigbwb]

The people complaining about the 4Runner lacking the V8 go look at the thread about having a TE as rental. That is a 4Runner V8 owner talking there.

For those that wants the 4Runner for towing - you got a point

Keeping customers is cheaper than getting new ones. Keeping customers that buy a car that you are not making money on is not a good business decision. If you can drive 50% of those to a profitable model and loose 50% that is better than keeping 100% and loosing money on them.

I don't know for a fact that Toyota was loosing money on the V8 models, but from some heavy research into the auto industry a few years ago - trust me Toyota knows what they are doing.

I'm the one with the 2010 TE rental and trust me I too was seriously hoping the 4.6l v8 would be an option. After having the 5th gen(still do) the v6 is impressive. It's strong off the line and really moves taching 4k and higher. It does down shift more on steeper grades than my v8 but the tranny has been smooth. Will it tow my 4k lbs boat as well, no, but it will be more than sufficient. Today I got to try some of the 4x4 features in the 5-7in snow we are getting now, it handled it well on road. I even locked the rear diff, lots of traction! The other few things I have been noticing is the wiper heaters are slick with snow and ice. The top of the dash is way more solid when u pound on it vs my 06 which sounds hollow. I feel the extra weight on the 2010 is in structual rigidity, it feels very solid.

 

[sandcrawler]

The top of the dash is way more solid when u pound on it vs my 06 which sounds hollow. I feel the extra weight on the 2010 is in structual rigidity, it feels very solid.

i got a chuckle picturing you repeatedly pounding on the dash of the rental. funny.
glad to hear you're enjoying it.

 

[JB.]

The following might not apply to the 5th gens perceived quickness, but it's a possibility. See linked thread. The guy was bummed that his wife's GX -- heavier and with the same V8 as his 4Runner -- was noticeably quicker than his 4runner.

He did a test that disproved his notion and decided that the GX felt faster due to the extra mass being moved and a gas pedal calibrated with much more sensitivity.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/49865-my-v8-slow.html

 

[PlanetAlaska-]

:iagree: with Uneek, and by extension, charlier180. there's a lot of "can't be all things to all people" sentiment being bandied about in this thread, but the reality is:

1. Toyota owners are often loyal to the brand.
2. Toyota 4Runner owners are often extremely loyal to the brand and model.
3. the economy has put new vehicle sales figures in the crapper, so existing customers (while certainly always important) are arguably more so than before. in this market, you want your loyalists to be compelled to upgrade.
4. Toyota has released a redesigned 4Runner that—while offered at more or less the same price—is missing two significant, high-profile capabilities/options (Torsen diff & V8) that were standard/available across-the-board on the previous model.
5. Toyota 4Runner owners (with the Torsen & V8, anyway) must determine whether or not they're willing/able to "do without" and shell out for a new model—but there's a perceived negative.

I have been driving Toyota's since 2001, and want to keep driving Toyota's (or Lexus). The year 2010 is the first time since 2001 that neither the Toyota nor Lexus lineups provide a vehicle that match my needs. What I want is a medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 but without a trunk barn door.

For example:

-from 2001 to 2003, the Sequoia would fit the bill.
-from 2004 to 2007, the Sequoia or 4Runner would fit the bill.
-from 2008 to 2009, the Sequoia is no longer an option (now too big), but the 4Runner V8 is still available - Thank God.
-now in 2010: !!! there is no Toyota medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 !!!. What about Lexus? The GX460 has a V8, but it has a @#$%#$ barn door.

 

[M1911]

I'm totally with you on the barn door.

 

[Uneek]

I have been driving Toyota's since 2001, and want to keep driving Toyota's (or Lexus). The year 2010 is the first time since 2001 that neither the Toyota nor Lexus lineups provide a vehicle that match my needs. What I want is a medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 but without a trunk barn door.

For example:

-from 2001 to 2003, the Sequoia would fit the bill.
-from 2004 to 2007, the Sequoia or 4Runner would fit the bill.
-from 2008 to 2009, the Sequoia is no longer an option (now too big), but the 4Runner V8 is still available - Thank God.
-now in 2010: !!! there is no Toyota medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 !!!. What about Lexus? The GX460 has a V8, but it has a @#$%#$ barn door.

Exactly, the only option is a Land Cruiser or LX570, but that's at least 50% increase in price (compared to the choices above).

If the GX460 did not have a barn door, it would've worked. I saw the GX460 at the autoshow and there was another guy who owned a GX470, he mentioned why didn't get rid of the barn door and what's worse, he says the door on the GX460 is EVEN BIGGER than the one his GX470.

 

[sandcrawler]

I'm totally with you on the barn door.

barn doors belong on, well, barns.
imo, the only good swing-out style doors were the ambulance doors on the 1975+ FJs.

 

[mondo540]

I have been driving Toyota's since 2001, and want to keep driving Toyota's (or Lexus). The year 2010 is the first time since 2001 that neither the Toyota nor Lexus lineups provide a vehicle that match my needs. What I want is a medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 but without a trunk barn door.

For example:

-from 2001 to 2003, the Sequoia would fit the bill.
-from 2004 to 2007, the Sequoia or 4Runner would fit the bill.
-from 2008 to 2009, the Sequoia is no longer an option (now too big), but the 4Runner V8 is still available - Thank God.
-now in 2010: !!! there is no Toyota medium size 4x4 SUV with V8 !!!. What about Lexus? The GX460 has a V8, but it has a @#$%#$ barn door.

I am with you...I have an '08 IS-F and for winter, a '00 4runner ltd. I like the 4runner but it is dog slow and considering the 17 mpg with all of 184 hp, well, technology over the last 10 yrs is great I guess...I know the newer 4runner 6's have a lot more power but I like v8's, esp if geared correctly. My F can get 28 mpg on long freeway drives with 400+hp. Thx 8pd auto.

Anyway, this may be blasphemy on this forum, but I am waiting for the new Grand Cherokee ltd....360 HP, 390 tq and from what I've seen so far, looks nice. I am well aware of the issues on past Jeep products but still want to take a close look at this one....I'm not in the mkt for a yr or two anyway....maybe toyo will offer a v8 by then on the runner.

 

[M1911]

I am with you...I have an '08 IS-F and for winter, a '00 4runner ltd. I like the 4runner but it is dog slow and considering the 17 mpg with all of 184 hp, well, technology over the last 10 yrs is great I guess...I know the newer 4runner 6's have a lot more power but I like v8's, esp if geared correctly. My F can get 28 mpg on long freeway drives with 400+hp. Thx 8pd auto.

The 8-speed transmission is only giving you an increase of maybe 5% in fuel economy. The reason the IS-F gets decent mileage is 1) small frontal cross-sectional area, 2) low ground clearance results in less turbulent air flow under the car, 3) better coefficient of drag, 4) less driveline losses, and 5) much lower weight.

1, 2, and 3 together result in much lower aerodynamic drag, but you can't really apply those to an SUV without compromising size and ground clearance.

The 4WD system of a 4Runner significantly increases 4. And 5 is a function of the size of the vehicle.

In other words, comparing a small sedan to a medium-sized, body-on-frame, 4WD SUV is comparing oranges to kumquats.

 

[supercooper]

Where is my 4.6L V8?

My decision to purchase a 5th-gen 4 Runner is indefinitely on hold until the 4.6L V8 is made available (or something increasing the towing capacity to 6500 lbs.). To say I was dissapointed that the new 4runner was introduced w/o V8 is an understatement.

I understand the Sequioa will comfortably meet my towing needs; however, this vehicle does not appeal to me. Besides the Sequioa being unnecessarily large for 95% of my needs, the interior-style (subjective) and quality (objective) are not up-to-par with the 4Runner. The fit-and-finish of the Tundra, er,em Sequioa interior is really several notches below that of the latest generation 4Runner...or the 4th-gen, for that matter.

 

[supercooper]

V8 email sent...

FWIW...

I sent my $0.02 regarding the absense of V8 option.

I struggle to believe that Toyota introduced a new vehicle (truck for that matter) with reduced towing capacity without plans to introduce the V8. I stuggle with the argument that "towing = Seqouia". I struggle with even including the Sequioa on my list of vehicles to consider as I think the 4Runner and Sequioa inherently appeal to different types of customers. I struggle to spell Seqouia....

 

[mondo540]

The 8-speed transmission is only giving you an increase of maybe 5% in fuel economy. The reason the IS-F gets decent mileage is 1) small frontal cross-sectional area, 2) low ground clearance results in less turbulent air flow under the car, 3) better coefficient of drag, 4) less driveline losses, and 5) much lower weight.

1, 2, and 3 together result in much lower aerodynamic drag, but you can't really apply those to an SUV without compromising size and ground clearance.

The 4WD system of a 4Runner significantly increases 4. And 5 is a function of the size of the vehicle.

In other words, comparing a small sedan to a medium-sized, body-on-frame, 4WD SUV is comparing oranges to kumquats.

Thx for your thoughts but I was just giving an ex. of what a modern v8and gearing can do in a car that's officially rated 16/23. Wasn't really intending to equate that to a 4 wheel drive brick. I'll make my points more clear for you in future posts tho.

 

[M1911]

Thx for your thoughts but I was just giving an ex. of what a modern v8and gearing can do in a car that's officially rated 16/23. Wasn't really intending to equate that to a 4 wheel drive brick. I'll make my points more clear for you in future posts tho.

I don't think putting the 4.6 and a 6-speed tranny in the 4Runner would increase the mileage over the V6 and 5-speed. In fact, I expect it would decrease. The V6 is already a pretty sophisticated engine, and a different transmission would provide only marginal improvement.