Lets group E-mail Toyota demanding V8

[Climb14er]

I think the reason for dumping the V8 was lack of sales. When I started looking at 4 runners in 08, the V8 were the only ones left on the lots. Even now, the (used) V8 4 Runners are all over the place.

Here in Denver, where my friend is a GM at one of the largest Toyota dealers, they have Eight-V6 4th gen's on the lot and Three- V8's.

People have moved to the 5th Gen V6's but have remained with the 4th Gen V8's because there's no 5th Gen V8 substitute.

 

[cucumber pie]

honestly I wouldn't buy the V8 as I don't need it but it would be a great option to have, especially since that 4.6 is a great motor.
I would prefer to have the 6 speed manual available in the Tacoma or FJ available. I have been driving manuals for 25 years and it kills me to have a automatic in the vehicle I want. the only other option is getting into a Xterra. Which comes nowhere close to the 4Runner.

 

[TTown]

If a supercharger comes available, what do you think the torque and horsepower would be?

 

[Jed]

Here in Denver, where my friend is a GM at one of the largest Toyota dealers, they have Eight-V6 4th gen's on the lot and Three- V8's.

People have moved to the 5th Gen V6's but have remained with the 4th Gen V8's because there's no 5th Gen V8 substitute.

Now there's an assumption if I've ever seen one! Have you ever stopped to consider that V6 4Runners far outnumber V8 4Runners for every year they were produced concurrently?

So it stands to reason that there would be more V6 models for sale at any given time, based purely on statistics. It probably has nothing at all to do with a lack of an available V8 in the 5th gen.

 

[Jed]

... the only other option is getting into a Xterra. Which comes nowhere close to the 4Runner.

Word on the street is that Nissan is giving the Xterra the axe. So much for options!

 

[Chrisinvermont]

I would prefer to have the 6 speed manual available in the Tacoma or FJ available. I have been driving manuals for 25 years and it kills me to have a automatic in the vehicle I want. the only other option is getting into a Xterra. Which comes nowhere close to the 4Runner.

Same here, and I just came from an Xterra. I will say that overall the automatic 4runner is better than the manual Xterra but I would still prefer a manual 4runner. I really have no need for a V8 but I understand that others want it just like I am probably in the minority that want a manual.

 

[M1911]

Same here, and I just came from an Xterra. I will say that overall the automatic 4runner is better than the manual Xterra but I would still prefer a manual 4runner. I really have no need for a V8 but I understand that others want it just like I am probably in the minority that want a manual.

I just turned 50 and my '03 4Runner is my first vehicle with an automatic. I greatly prefer a manual, except when offroad. When offroad, an automatic just works far better for me. YMMV.

 

[bobs4state]

V8--yes!

This thread is about the V8 engine. YES to the V8!!

 

[Wakeborder556]

With time added perspective how does everyone feel

 

[M1911]

With time added perspective how does everyone feel

While I love the smooth power and torque of my V8, the mileage just sucks. I'm getting ~15 mpg in the winter commuting, and maybe 19 mpg on the highway (downhill and downwind) -- that just isn't enough. A Ford F150 EcoBoost, which is a much larger vehicle, gets better mileage.

I'm hoping that when it comes time to replace my '03 4Runner, that there are options out there which get much better mileage. Ford is supposedly aiming to have the nextgen F150 (due in a couple years) 700 lbs lighter than the current generation. If they make it a bit smaller, then I may consider that rather than another 4Runner unless Toyota significantly improves the fuel economy.

As to Toyota putting a V8 back in the 4Runner, that is just not going to happen. The stricter EPA mileage regulations are looming ever closer and Toyota will need to improve the mileage in all of their vehicles.

 

[chmura]

Everyone should be demanding a diesel not a V8. The days for manufacturers putting over-sized engines in cars are over IMO. Putting a diesel is much better then a V8.

Lexus even discontinued the V8 in the new redesigned 2013 GS350. There will be a V6 and V6 hybrid option. So 99% sure there will be no V8 in the 4runner anytime soon.

 

[M1911]

Everyone should be demanding a diesel not a V8. The days for manufacturers putting over-sized engines in cars are over IMO. Putting a diesel is much better then a V8.

I agree completely.

 

[1engineer]

You guys really need to get over yourselves.
1. Do you think ANY OEM auto manufacturer builds a vehicle without doing exhaustive research? Yes there have been a few duds but all in all they build what the majority of target consumers ask for.
2. V8? Diesel? In North America? C'mon. Even if everyone on this forum wanted a V8 or Diesel (which they don't judging by only 170 responses in 2 years) we are a small cross section of mostly enthusiasts who would appreciate a v8 or diesel. We are not like the rest of the (majority) of consumers. Same goes for a manual vs. an automatic transmission. Sure I want one but I am one of the few who do.

 

[M1911]

1Engineer, FYI, Chevrolet will be selling a diesel engine Cruze (compact sedan) in the US starting in 2013. Cadillac will be selling a diesel engine ATS (compact sedan, smaller than the CTS) sometime after 2013. Jeep will be selling a diesel engine Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2013.

The current 4Runner has poor fuel economy. Toyota must improve it, due to upcoming CAFE regulations. There are several options for them to do so:

1) Hybrid. Toyota certainly has hybrid experience, so this is a possibility.

2) Smaller displacement, turbocharged direct-injection gasoline engine, like the EcoBoost. Toyota has not been using this technology in the rest of their US lineup, but who knows what the future will bring...

3) Turbocharged, direct-injection diesel engines. Toyota is using this technology overseas.

4) Drop the 4Runner entirely.

All of these options are possible. I don't think it is correct to say that option 3 is infeasible. I do think that there is very little chance of a V8 or a manual transmission option.

 

[1engineer]

1Engineer, FYI, Chevrolet will be selling a diesel engine Cruze (compact sedan) in the US starting in 2013. Cadillac will be selling a diesel engine ATS (compact sedan, smaller than the CTS) sometime after 2013. Jeep will be selling a diesel engine Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2013.

The current 4Runner has poor fuel economy. Toyota must improve it, due to upcoming CAFE regulations. There are several options for them to do so:

1) Hybrid. Toyota certainly has hybrid experience, so this is a possibility.

2) Smaller displacement, turbocharged direct-injection gasoline engine, like the EcoBoost. Toyota has not been using this technology in the rest of their US lineup, but who knows what the future will bring...

3) Turbocharged, direct-injection diesel engines. Toyota is using this technology overseas.

4) Drop the 4Runner entirely.

All of these options are possible. I don't think it is correct to say that option 3 is infeasible. I do think that there is very little chance of a V8 or a manual transmission option.

4Runner is a tiny niche market (2011US Toyota Sales - 1.64M. 2011 4Runner Sales - 44K) so fuel economy, while somewhat important is not the driver in this market. At these sales numbers the 4runner could have a mpg of 2 and not effect the Toyota CAFE numbers. Toyota uses diesels overseas because that is what the customers want overseas. Of the vehicles you mentioned above fuel efficiency is most important next to low cost. I can't imagine someone buying a Chevy Cruze because that is their dream car. The Jeep GC you mentioned is coming out with a DIFFERENT diesel in 2013. They have been offering a diesel as I know a few people that have them (2009 and 2010 models). You don't hear about them because they are very rare...the masses do not want them here. I personally would love a robust, reliable diesel powered 4Runner. I am also a realist and understand market expectations.

Here is a piece of CAFE regulations as it pertains to us: Starting in 2011 the CAFE standards are newly expressed as mathematical functions depending on vehicle "footprint", a measure of vehicle size determined by multiplying the vehicle’s wheelbase by its average track width. [3] CAFE footprint requirements are set up such that a vehicle with a bigger footprint has a lower fuel economy requirement than a vehicle with a smaller footprint. For example, the 2012 Honda Fit has a footprint of 40 sq ft (3.7 m2) must achieve fuel economy (as measured for CAFE) of 36 miles per US gallon (6.5 l/100 km), equivalent to a published fuel economy of 27 miles per US gallon (8.7 l/100 km), while a Ford F-150 with its footprint of 65–75 sq ft (6.0–7.0 m2) must achieve CAFE fuel economy of 22 miles per US gallon (11 l/100 km), i.e., 17 miles per US gallon (14 l/100 km) published.

So in reality it matters on size of vehicle and where they are right now.

 

[CAN-03runner]

Technically Toyota can provide NA with a Manual tranny, since it already exists in the Taco and the FJ.

And technically they can provide us with a Diesel in manual or auto since it already exists in other coutries. Granted not as a 4runner.

Based on Canadian gas pricing right now where I am; 1.30$/Litre for regular fuel and 1.34$/Litre for Diesel. Maybe Diesel is cheaper in the states? Not anymore in Canada.

Toyota Australia website says the Prado does 8.5L/100Km for the Diesel and 11.5L/100Km for the gas version. (toyota canada says 11.1L/100Km for a 4runner)

So if you were able to reproduce these ratings in real life all the time then....travelling a distance of 100km would cost 14.95 of Gas or 11.39 of Diesel. A savings of 3.56$. A 500Km trip or weekly driving would cost 74.75 of gas or 56.95 of Diesel. Savings of 17.80$. Doing 500Km a week for 52 weeks that's 925.60 in savings. The diesel costs a few thousand $ MORE to start, so it will take a couple of years to recoupe and start saving.

Also, the Australian website says both the Diesel and Gas ca tow 2500Kg or 5500lbs, so you're not getting anything more in that dept either.

If you live in an area where Diesel costs substantially less it would be good.

But...the fact that a Deisel can advertise 8.5L/100km would help bring it's fleet to seem more fuel efficient, it could also save the consumer of gas guzzler taxes on the purchase/registration/insurance.

Then again, the Toyota technicians in NA might not be familiar with the toyota diesel engines and would need training for that,plus parts inventory.

 

[M1911]

4Runner is a tiny niche market (2011US Toyota Sales - 1.64M. 2011 4Runner Sales - 44K) so fuel economy, while somewhat important is not the driver in this market. At these sales numbers the 4runner could have a mpg of 2 and not effect the Toyota CAFE numbers.

Yes, the 4Runner is a niche car. The VW Golf is even more of a niche car, with VW selling 35,000 Golf/GTI in the US last year. But even within that small niche, VW is selling a diesel Golf in the US. They are also selling diesel Jettas, Passats, and Touaregs, and doing quite well with them.

There is no reason Toyota couldn't similar success with a diesel Tacoma and 4Runner.

The Jeep GC you mentioned is coming out with a DIFFERENT diesel in 2013. They have been offering a diesel as I know a few people that have them (2009 and 2010 models). You don't hear about them because they are very rare...the masses do not want them here.

That was the previous generation GC, and the new diesel engine is a lot better than the previous one. The masses don't want diesels because none of the manufacturers are marketing their diesel engines. Some of them sell them, but you seldom see advertisements extolling the virtues of their diesel engines. VW sells the largest number of passenger car diesels in the US, but I think that is more due to word-of-mouth among VW enthusiasts than VW marketing.

I personally would love a robust, reliable diesel powered 4Runner. I am also a realist and understand market expectations.

I'm a realist too. I think a diesel 4Runner is possible, and though unlikely is a lot more likely than another V8 4Runner. And I'm really tired of you implying that I'm not a realist.

So in reality it matters on size of vehicle and where they are right now.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. But the reality is that the 4Runner gets pretty crappy mileage right now, and Toyota does need to improve it. How they plan to do that is something that only they know at this point.

 

[DDM4]

I'm all for a V8 or a diesel however, to think toyota gives 2 ****s about what we want, :lol:

They won't even acknowledge the frame tearing in the FJ. Toyota may have the strongest reliability but they have about the worst customer support. That I've come across anyway. Chevy and Ford were garbage too but Toyota takes the cake in my experience. BMW and VW have been my best experiences so far with regards to customer service.

 

[CAN-03runner]

Yes, the 4Runner is a niche car. The VW Golf is even more of a niche car, with VW selling 35,000 Golf/GTI in the US last year. But even within that small niche, VW is selling a diesel Golf in the US. They are also selling diesel Jettas, Passats, and Touaregs, and doing quite well with them.

There is no reason Toyota couldn't similar success with a diesel Tacoma and 4Runner.

So VW or Toyota makes a car somewhere...either in NA or Mexico, or Asia, or Europe. They make the same car with a gas engine and diesel engine. The boat or train that takes those cars to us in NA is capable of transporting both, either, at the same time...but toyota chooses not to send us their deisels. The cars exist. There is no development to be done. No special manufacturing plant needs to be built. Nothing new to invent.

I could understand if toyota or any car company for that matter had no deisel in their line up, anywhere. Well then it would mean needing to invent something, and a lot of investing.

I don't know. It's really weird. But it's working for them, or they think it is working for them. I guess it is if that's what they're doing.

Maybe it is part of their future strategy. But maybe right now they don't want to mess up the hybrid strategy. Or they won't say they will bring deisles to NA, because they don't want anyone to put off buying a new truck for a year or two waiting for the deisel.

Europe has a deisel every model, except the FJ....a yaris for Gods sake. For the NA truck crowd,maybe a desiel yaris, or highlander won't fly. But a deisel truck, like a 4runner, truck enthusiasts like deisels. Don't we?

 

[Quentin]

I'm averaging 22mpg in my 4Runner. My wife gets around 29~30mpg in her MINI Cooper S. I'm pretty pleased considering the size and performance of the 5th gen 4Runner.