LF some help with my '13 SR5 and engine/fuel 'issue'

[jeffjcalweb]

Hi - i have a '13 SR5 with 24K miles on it. over the last 2-3K miles there has been a very very VERY annoying problem that has me at the point of getting rid of this vehicle (which is a shame because everything else has been great) so hoping maybe this forum might have some ideas...

basically, the problem is between 35MPH-50MPH while mainlining steady throttle the RPMs 'bounce' and drop by 500RPM and then shoot backup by 1K RPM and then settle...this is a very noticeable issue as you can feel the car momentarily slow then speed up then settle back down. this does not happen under acceleration, it is ONLY when i'm at a cruising speed, RPM will show 1500RPM, drop to 1K, shoot back up to 2K then settle back at 1500RPM again.

no warning/check lights are on. there does not seem to be any transmission issue as i can't feel it shifting, it is like fuel is being cut then too much fuel.

it also appears to do this only when it is warmed up and after driving around town.

last, there is also an issue that when going down hill the transmission does not down shift until i accelerate (yes, have to accelerate DOWN hill), letting the RPMs climb to well over 4K.

none of what i described above was what the vehicle drove like when i bought it several months ago.

my local dealer said "that's all normal, its the ECU adapting to your driving"... i've had more cars, including toyota tundra & tacoma in the last year, this is NOT normal behavior. it is incredibly annoying and even passengers have asked "what's wrong with your truck?".

i'm at the point where i've ordered an ODB sensor to hookup and record via my phone (using torque app) so i can show the dealer what is going on.

does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this? apologies for the wall of text but i don't know how else to describe.

TL;DR version - cruising 35-50mph i get surges/drops/surges in RPM while not accelerating.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

You're in Northern California, so I suspect you have a multitude of dealers you can visit. The one you've seen is obviously trying to brush you off. You can take any Toyota to any Toyota dealer anywhere in the U. S. for warranty work. There is nothing normal about what you are experiencing. You've put 24K on the vehicle and it's just now adapting to your driving style??? Complete BS.

I think it would be nice for you to post the name of this dealership so T4R members in your area know to stay away from this place.

 

[Lear45]

First off, I know nothing of 4Runners at all and I'm NOT a gear head/car guy at all, haha. I just joined the forum as I'm looking to possibly buy one in the future.

Anyway, I read your problem and wanted to post as this sounds very similar to an issue I had with my Dakota. I experienced pretty much the same as you- driving down the highway at a constant speed and having the RPMs start jumping all over.

I don't think I had a Check Engine Light with my issue, but I researched it and was led to believing it was a bad Throttle Position Sensor. I went to Auto Zone and got a new one for probably ~$10 or so. Mine was held on by two screws. I replaced it and never had a problem after that. Maybe something you could look into?? Hope that helps.

 

[jeffjcalweb]

thank you both - the local dealer is Folsom Lake Toyota, and I've had crappy service with them over 3 years ranging from my Tundra to Tacoma and now the 4runner. Yes there are others and I have a friend at Roseville Toyota, Folsom Lake is closest however.

@Lear - thanks and any idea is a good idea so i certainly won't rule that out.

i am an engineer in IT and have been in the IT field for 20 years...one of the lessons i've learned along the way is there's NOTHING more frustrating to a "customer" who is tying to explain there IS a problem only for you (aka the expert) to say there's NOT a problem.

cardinal sin to me in service - listen to what i'm saying, not what you THINK you know.

thanks guys.

 

[wfo9]

This is not something that can really be diagnosed over the web.

Something is clearly wrong. It could be many different things, but almost surely something in the electronics. It will need to be scanned while driving to see what is going on.

Try to find a dealer that gives a crap. The one you took it to sounds like a joke. They key is often the service writer. They are so lazy these days that they will often not do anything unless a code is present to work from. Unfortunately, that is the direction things are going. Hardly anyone can think these days.

Here are some quick things I would try myself before forcing the dealer to fix it.
- Clean the MAF with some MAF cleaner
- Drop some seafoam in the tank
- maybe decarb via seafoam

From the symptoms, it sounds like a 02 sensor issue. Since it only happens in closed loop and at steady throttle. But that is just an educated guess at best. Looking at the short term fuel trims while it happens would verify this and tell you what side it is on.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

They key is often the service writer.

Yep. Everything begins with them. The problems is they are trained to push people away, especially for warranty service.

See the 4th post in this toyotanation thread:

2005 avalon cylinder misfire p0300 p0301 p0302 p0304 p0305 58,000 miles check engine - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

 

[rigtec]

Hi jeff'

When I first read your post, I was inclined to think that you were just someone else who was not used to the normal shift pattern behavior of Toyota's 5 speed automatic transmission. But from what you've described, it does sound like you've got something totally different going on. I won't try to guess because there are too many things that can cause an engine to surge; particularly nowadays with the latest 'ECM' technology at hand; so much more that can go wrong!

You need to (imho) find a 'reputable' Toyota dealership that actually wants your business. The statement that was made to you by your dealer... "that's all normal, its the ECU adapting to your driving"... sounds like "salesman talk" to me, not a qualified technician trying to help you better understand your new vehical.

Your truck is under warranty... "something that you've paid for 'in advance'! You are not there looking for a hand-out; as a lot of dealerships would have you to believe". So when you go in for service, just remember that they were already paid to take care of your truck and need to treat you like any other cash paying customer!

rigtec, cheers

 

[buchaja]

1) Service writer. Given you've already tried them, go to step two.

2) General Manager. Might get it done. If not go to step three.

3) Toyota Corporate; open a complaint. Keep documentation and don't take no for an answer.

Good luck.

 

[FERAL 4R]

That's definitely a problem and really could be a multitude of things from bad O2 sensor to TPS as stated, or something as simple as a loose connection somewhere...who knows until a good tech can diagnose it properly...

I suspect the torque converter.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Does the vehicle do this behavior if you put the transmission in "4" or "3"? IMHO, sounds like the trans may need to be reflashed. It sounds like it is upshifting then realizing it is lugging the engine so it downshifts then starts the process over. Is the trans fluid at the proper level?

If the next dealer says its normal, ask to drive a new one off the lot and take the tech with you. Then tell them you want yours to drive like that.

 

[philsey]

What you got from your dealer is such a load of poop! I never cease to be amazed by the things owners are told. I'd have gone orbital had I been told such BS.

Is your problem repeatable? If it is, simply demand a tech or the SM take it for a drive (you absolutely go along).

 

[jeffjcalweb]

hi - thanks all. i'm going to go to another dealer where i have some contacts, just a bit of a pain to get there and back as the other one is right by work. such is life.

the problem is reproduce-able once things get warm. i'm also taking to driving around recording my gauges using my phone so if i can't recreate the problem on a drive, i can at least show that the vehicle is not changing speeds, its just fluctuating rpm.

what kills me is like many of you said, its under warranty, its not going to cost the dealer anything to check it out and whatever needs fixed, if they do find something, is going to be paid for by toyota corp.

i really appreciate the feedback, i knew it wouldn't be a matter of "oh here's your problem, go get <THAT> fixed" as much as maybe someone may have experienced a similar issue that could point me to help identify the source.

on the topic of transmission fluid, funny you should bring that up, as they wouldn't even CONSIDER it, it was another statement of "its a toyota, they don't even have us check fluid till 60K, and change at 100K. you only have 24K so it can't possibly be that". really? i mean f'ing REALLY? ok, it probably isn't that - but hey aholes, how about you freaking humor me and say "we'll check it out and see what we find". :sniper: ok if i ever do get resolution i'll follow up here.