Lifting the Hunk of Junk too High

[TravThePro]

After waiting on backorder for roughly 6 months, and being entirely certain that I was scammed out of $700, I finally found my Icon FJ80 suspension at the foot of my door. Coincidentally, this was right in the middle of rebuilding the nightmare sitting between the firewall and bumper. In addition to the 5VZ rebuild and lazily procrastinating all of my projects (College back in session with full-time work), a year's worth of dust had piled on all of my new suspension parts. Why is it so easy to find an excuse to put this crap off?

The rust bucket 3rd gen had seen a long 15+ years of neglect and offroad abuse, so every single suspension project only took a measly 3-5x longer than it should have. Luckily, I will never have to deal with rust welded sleeves, seized ball joints, ripped off sway bar brackets, broken off bolts, rust seized bolts, or anything similar with it ever again! Dealing with anything beyond basic surface rust/neglect on one of these will be far more expensive in the long run than buying one that has been maintained properly. Please be smart and listen to all of the people on here who have already been through this hell!

Does anyone know what shocks/springs these might have been? I cannot find a reliable source to what these shocks came from and I was told these were 4" Rear lift springs when I bought the vehicle 6 years ago.

Rear Shocks


Rear Spring Compared to the front FJ80 Icon lift Spring


These "4-inch lift springs" had sagged to the point where they would fall completely off of the vehicle if I even thought about going past 9 inches of travel. On the contrary, these Icon springs are so tall that they wouldn't fall off even if I wanted them to. I actually had to install them in a fairly dangerous way combining a spring compressor with a fully lifted body. Please be safe and DO NOT try that at home.

Old rear shock compared to the FJ80 Icon Rear lift shocks


Previous Rear Height

Current Hunk of Junk Height


Bonus Video

 

[Devbot]

Quite the major difference. What set up are you running up front? LT or just a lot of lift?

 

[TravThePro]

Quite the major difference. What set up are you running up front? LT or just a lot of lift?

I put the front suspension on a few weeks ago. Bilstein 5100 adjustable 0-3 inches of lift on highest setting, OME 2883 coils, 1.25 inch strut spacers, Whiteline bushings, JBA upper control arms.




I'll find a picture of the previous destroyed stuff later today if you would like that.

 

[phattyduck]

You will basically have no suspension travel in the front... Fine if you like the look, but it won't actually work on or off road.

-Charlie

 

[Bad Luck]

OME 883 are not meant to be run on the top clip on those bilstein's. You have very little down travel left.

 

[TravThePro]

You will basically have no suspension travel in the front... Fine if you like the look, but it won't actually work on or off road.

-Charlie

I appreciate the feedback!

I researched the rear like crazy and love the result I have with the rear springs not falling out in the extreme frame twisters now. Unfortunately, I took a complete shot in the dark when it came to redoing the front, so I have this stupid-looking, useless vehicle now.

The CVs pull out/dislocate if I turn or lift the vehicle off the ground. I am limited to 2 inches of travel at the tire with the swaybar disconnected. As an added bonus, the UCA is making contact with springs on both sides. A big celebration for these brand new parts being damaged haha.

 

[TravThePro]

OME 883 are not meant to be run on the top clip on those bilstein's. You have very little down travel left.

If I would have just researched what people were doing with the cheaper front suspension setups, I would have seen that posted everywhere. I initially was going to run adjustable resi coilovers, but the gains on everything that wasn't an extended control arm were disappointing for a huge price mark-up. The current price on my suspension shenanigans is closing in on $3500

These 5100/2883s were supposed to be a placeholder for finishing school and getting a real job. It makes zero sense for me to spend 8-20k on extended LT when I'm already kicking my own butt for wasting so much money on this restoration with my current income.

Thank you so much for giving me the idea of swapping the clip to a lower position! It is such a simple solution that I completely overlooked it (It also saved my butt on doing this project correctly the second time).

This is coming from someone who has rebuilt, installed, tuned, and given tons of advice to people on their builds. I am slapping my head in disbelief, but dumb people like me have to learn these lessons sometimes. I can give anyone else the proper advice most of the time, but here I am messing my own stuff up haha:loco:

 

[Devbot]

You know what's funny is I researched suspension choices religiously for well over a month before committing and I can barely remember a thing now :deadhorse:
I was gonna say it looks like your UCAs were dipping pretty hard (I'm running JBAs as well) so no real shocker there. I'm willing to bet your ball joints are taking a beating too with such high spacers. I get money's tight for many but I'm also gonna put my hat in and highly recommend doing something about it sooner than later though cause you're definitely asking for trouble as is. Or rather, more than you've already received
You don't necessarily have to go LT, as said you could just mess about with perches or get a different set of coils to use, depending on what kind of 5100s you got (4Runner specific, Tundra specific, etc) you might even retain nearly 3in without any top spacers. LT is a major commitment for certain
If you wanted bring down the rear to avoid rake while also being smart with your money, you could always go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a couple 50-80lb bags of sand or concrete for like $5 each. You might even find it rides better with a little weight if you think your rear coils are on the stiffer side

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Top plate spacers extend the overall compressed length of the coilover assembly. What that means, is that instead of using your LCA bump stop, your LBJ is now taking the brunt of the bottoming out. I personally would never recommend running one even though lots of people run them.

You shouldn't be more than about 3-4” lifted even with aftermarket UCA’s unless you’re talking about a body lift in addition to suspension lift because the truck will ride like crap and wear steering and front ball joints really fast. Not surprised the CV’s are trying to come apart! Nothing over 24” hub to fender without a body lift IMO. What is your setup measuring?

 

[TravThePro]

You know what's funny is I researched suspension choices religiously for well over a month before committing and I can barely remember a thing now :deadhorse:
I was gonna say it looks like your UCAs were dipping pretty hard (I'm running JBAs as well) so no real shocker there. I'm willing to bet your ball joints are taking a beating too with such high spacers. I get money's tight for many but I'm also gonna put my hat in and highly recommend doing something about it sooner than later though cause you're definitely asking for trouble as is. Or rather, more than you've already received
You don't necessarily have to go LT, as said you could just mess about with perches or get a different set of coils to use, depending on what kind of 5100s you got (4Runner specific, Tundra specific, etc) you might even retain nearly 3in without any top spacers. LT is a major commitment for certain
If you wanted bring down the rear to avoid rake while also being smart with your money, you could always go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a couple 50-80lb bags of sand or concrete for like $5 each. You might even find it rides better with a little weight if you think your rear coils are on the stiffer side

My LBJ probably would have ripped off the hub if I even tried to drive it the way it is now. It has not left the driveway because my intuition tells me I would die if I took it for a spin. Previous experience with this happening taught me not to risk it with a faulty suspension system.

I am unexplainably lucky with this happening the day after my 500-mile engine break-in. I did the break-in while driving way too fast up and down steep, hairpin turn-filled mountain passes. Between the body restoration and engine rebuild, my electric VSVs had both seized. This resulted in my 4WD light not coming on, no vacuum making it past the VSVs, and my ADD actuator not engaging/disengaging. I swapped some spare VSVs in place and was finally getting vacuum to the ADD actuator. I was testing my front ADD actuator and about 20 feet from my house it finally thunked into true 4WD. The vehicle instantly started pulling to the left without me steering. The 4Runner stopped in its tracks suddenly, but I didn't heed the warning. I tapped the gas and heard a massive boom. The vehicle started to roll towards the passenger side but thankfully came to a halt before going over.

 

[Devbot]

Smart man, I definitely wouldn't chance it
Did you repaint the front of your frame or did you somehow manage to preserve it that well? Looks good either way

 

[TravThePro]

Smart man, I definitely wouldn't chance it
Did you repaint the front of your frame or did you somehow manage to preserve it that well? Looks good either way

I ground and painted most of the frame before I did the bodywork. Unfortunately, we over-sprayed the heck out of it during the primer stage, so it became a cloudy, polka-dotted Frankenstein.

The engine rebuild gave me the opportunity to fix most of the issues I was not able to fix from the outside of the vehicle. A lot of this was because everything was caked in at least a quarter an inch of grease. I wish I would have taken better before pictures of this, but this is what I have for the transformation.

Engine bay and front frame after 2 gallons of purple degreaser and tons of scraping/scrubbing


Most of the crap finally washed off revealing some frame issues


Post engine bay paint showing I only fixed a few of the issues. I actually went back after this and grinded the fresh paint and rust off the pinch welds and painted it again (I forgot to take pictures of it though haha).



The suspension swap gave me access to the last pinch welds, control arm mounts, coil buckets, and a few other things I missed before. I did also miss a few of the mounting brackets that were a PIA to prep. Time constraints, my rack and pinion exploding, and insane heat rushed the current suspension to being put back together the way it is now. Eventually, I will go back over everything on the outside of the frame and sand, prep, and repaint it all to be a solid black.

 

[TravThePro]

Top plate spacers extend the overall compressed length of the coilover assembly. What that means, is that instead of using your LCA bump stop, your LBJ is now taking the brunt of the bottoming out. I personally would never recommend running one even though lots of people run them.

You shouldn't be more than about 3-4” lifted even with aftermarket UCA’s unless you’re talking about a body lift in addition to suspension lift because the truck will ride like crap and wear steering and front ball joints really fast. Not surprised the CV’s are trying to come apart! Nothing over 24” hub to fender without a body lift IMO. What is your setup measuring?

Yeah, the suspension doesn't even work the way it sits now. I did not know this before, but the high lift on these short-arm ifs vehicles will bind the suspension to the point that it is guaranteed to catastrophically fail along with binding it from being able to flex. Fun lessons to learn, I simply got lucky that I did not die learning these lessons.

I will measure it when I go to take it apart again. Until the suspension is back in harmony, I will not drive it. My steering rack and new tie rod ends just came in (The dual project that I am going to do at the same time), so I will get to it as soon as I figure out what I want it set to.

 

[Bad Luck]

If I would have just researched what people were doing with the cheaper front suspension setups, I would have seen that posted everywhere. I initially was going to run adjustable resi coilovers, but the gains on everything that wasn't an extended control arm were disappointing for a huge price mark-up. The current price on my suspension shenanigans is closing in on $3500

These 5100/2883s were supposed to be a placeholder for finishing school and getting a real job. It makes zero sense for me to spend 8-20k on extended LT when I'm already kicking my own butt for wasting so much money on this restoration with my current income.

Thank you so much for giving me the idea of swapping the clip to a lower position! It is such a simple solution that I completely overlooked it (It also saved my butt on doing this project correctly the second time).

This is coming from someone who has rebuilt, installed, tuned, and given tons of advice to people on their builds. I am slapping my head in disbelief, but dumb people like me have to learn these lessons sometimes. I can give anyone else the proper advice most of the time, but here I am messing my own stuff up haha:loco:

When you redo the front clip setting I would recommend the bottom clip setting. From what I've read that is the correct clip setting. Lots of people in this thread have that combo and say that they still got around 3 inches of lift on the bottom clip: OME and Bilstein help I would also leave out the top strut spacer. You're already getting a lot of lift and you don't want to put too much stress on the axle shafts by making your droop too much lower than just aftermarket UCA and good shocks can do.

 

[phattyduck]

When you redo the front clip setting I would recommend the bottom clip setting. From what I've read that is the correct clip setting. Lots of people in this thread have that combo and say that they still got around 3 inches of lift on the bottom clip: OME and Bilstein help I would also leave out the top strut spacer. You're already getting a lot of lift and you don't want to put too much stress on the axle shafts by making your droop too much lower than just aftermarket UCA and good shocks can do.

The 883's on the bottom clip with no spacer should be around 3" of lift... which is already on the high side for stock(ish) geometry in the front. You need droop travel to flex, otherwise you are just lifting wheels and not getting anywhere.

-Charlie

 

[TravThePro]

When you redo the front clip setting I would recommend the bottom clip setting. From what I've read that is the correct clip setting. Lots of people in this thread have that combo and say that they still got around 3 inches of lift on the bottom clip: OME and Bilstein help I would also leave out the top strut spacer. You're already getting a lot of lift and you don't want to put too much stress on the axle shafts by making your droop too much lower than just aftermarket UCA and good shocks can do.

Now that I have seen where the vehicle is sitting it makes sense that the bottom clip lifts it 3 inches. Those 883s are ridiculously stiff on that top clip setting and I was naive to assume it would lift it 3 inches on the highest clip and 0 on the bottom clip. The struts measure identical to what my previous ones did, but the previous owners (an abused farm truck or a one-armed chick) had those struts combined with the current 1.25 inch spacers.

I have broken 7 CVs since I purchased the vehicle, so I should have put it together that the droop was out of control to begin with. Most of these CVs have broken in the snow while I was spinning in frame twisters. I put a 2 inch diff drop in to try and combat this issue, but the original problem is that I had ~2 inches of extra droop with the worn-out bushings combined with the 1.25 inch spacers.

I always have 2 spare CVs with me, so I have never been left fully stranded before. With that being said, it is one of my least favorite things in the world to lay down in the snow/mud doing mechanic work. The obvious solution is found, I will finally be able to get an awesome ride out of this POS!!

I'm estimating 1100-1500 extra pounds of spares/tools/luxuries/armor will eventually be on this vehicle I am currently sitting at ~600 pounds extra with my spares, tools, and recovery gear. The rake is going to make it look stupid until all of the weight is added, but I can always move the clip up if I need more lift at ride height.

 

[TravThePro]

The 883's on the bottom clip with no spacer should be around 3" of lift... which is already on the high side for stock(ish) geometry in the front. You need droop travel to flex, otherwise you are just lifting wheels and not getting anywhere.

-Charlie

Yeah, the suspension is useless if it cannot flex. It makes sense why this thing rode like a bareback horse before I replaced everything. It is several times stiffer than that with all of these setting being way too high. I appreciate you confirming the result of the bottom clip with the 883s!