Local Shop Ruined My LCA Pockets??

[4runherpow]

Hey Guys,

I need help on this one.

I bought an 06’ V8 rig recently. Great deal. Not too much rust. So I went to do a complete suspension refresh (LCA, 5100s, OME, Freedom UCA, sway bar bushings and links all around). Did most the work myself, however, I let the “local” shop remove and install the new OEM LCA.

The shop said they were “like hell to get out” but I didn’t think twice about it and went ahead with the rest of my maintenance I had planned — all told $5k+ with new timing belt, brakes all around, suspension, and more.

I finally finished most of the work myself after almost a month of her sitting on jack stands in the garage. I take her to the Toyota dealership today to get her aligned and they tell me this:
“We can not get it aligned properly, furthermore there is damage from whomever took off the LCA, come look.”

I then proceed to come look underneath the rig and there are multiple places with cut marks from a saw on the left side (driver), and one of the cam tabs on the front pocket looks bent, albeit not totally flat. Toyota said it can not align the caster and these gashes on the cross member and LCA pockets are “concerning”, possibly could fail.

1. What do you guys think of these pics... do I need to replace these pockets/am I screwed or is the Toyota tech making too big a deal about this?

2. Is the reason the caster won’t come in properly on left side because the tab is bent or the pocket could be bent (Toyota said due to heat)? It also appears it won’t stay aligned, as when I did leave after alignment I hit a bump later that day and steering wheel seemed liked it got off center a bit..

Please give me your opinions. Do I need to start welding and suing the local shop (being dramatic) or is it not really that a big a deal with these gashes?

The Toyota tech thought it was, however, he couldn’t align it properly so he might of been looking to pass the blame around. Not sure - couldn’t tell.

Thanks guys. I read here all the time and respect your input more than any shop/dealer.

-Jon

 

[That_Titanium_4RNR]

Hey Guys,

I need help on this one.

I bought an 06’ V8 rig recently. Great deal. Not too much rust. So I went to do a complete suspension refresh (LCA, 5100s, OME, Freedom UCA, sway bar bushings and links all around). Did most the work myself, however, I let the “local” shop remove and install the new OEM LCA.

The shop said they were “like hell to get out” but I didn’t think twice about it and went ahead with the rest of my maintenance I had planned — all told $5k+ with new timing belt, brakes all around, suspension, and more.

I finally finished most of the work myself after almost a month of her sitting on jack stands in the garage. I take her to the Toyota dealership today to get her aligned and they tell me this:
“We can not get it aligned properly, furthermore there is damage from whomever took off the LCA, come look.”

I then proceed to come look underneath the rig and there are multiple places with cut marks from a saw on the left side (driver), and one of the cam tabs on the front pocket looks bent, albeit not totally flat. Toyota said it can not align the caster and these gashes on the cross member and LCA pockets are “concerning”, possibly could fail.

1. What do you guys think of these pics... do I need to replace these pockets/am I screwed or is the Toyota tech making too big a deal about this?

2. Is the reason the caster won’t come in properly on left side because the tab is bent or the pocket could be bent (Toyota said due to heat)? It also appears it won’t stay aligned, as when I did leave after alignment I hit a bump later that day and steering wheel seemed liked it got off center a bit..

Please give me your opinions. Do I need to start welding and suing the local shop (being dramatic) or is it not really that a big a deal with these gashes?

The Toyota tech thought it was, however, he couldn’t align it properly so he might of been looking to pass the blame around. Not sure - couldn’t tell.

Thanks guys. I read here all the time and respect your input more than any shop/dealer.

-Jon

59860 - Total Chaos Lower Control Arm Cam Tab Gussets

 

[4runherpow]

59860 - Total Chaos Lower Control Arm Cam Tab Gussets

Same Rig as me -- silver with the Trail Rims


Yes, I've seen those. However, the gash thats up against the bushing in pic 3 and 4 would not be addressed by the cam tab kit, I believe. That gash is on the flap itself and not the tabs that you weld in.

What did you think of the pics?

 

[That_Titanium_4RNR]

Same Rig as me -- silver with the Trail Rims


Yes, I've seen those. However, the gash thats up against the bushing in pic 3 and 4 would not be addressed by the cam tab kit, I believe. That gash is on the flap itself and not the tabs that you weld in.

What did you think of the pics?

With the additional strength of the gussets I think you will be fine. Sucks that happened though, makes me glad I suffered through doing my own haha

 

[4runherpow]

With the additional strength of the gussets I think you will be fine. Sucks that happened though, makes me glad I suffered through doing my own haha

Yea, I kinda regret not doing them :/

I kinda feel like it’s a tossup. Part of me feels like it’ll be fine and it’s probably not that big a deal. While another part wants it to be right and not have to worry about it.

Anyone else have an opinion. Oh, happy NYE

 

[Inv4drZm]

Yea, I kinda regret not doing them :/

I kinda feel like it’s a tossup. Part of me feels like it’ll be fine and it’s probably not that big a deal. While another part wants it to be right and not have to worry about it.

Anyone else have an opinion. Oh, happy NYE

Structurally I think you're fine.

 

[4runherpow]

Structurally I think you're fine.

Yea, my hunch is that too. The one part that freaks me out is the tab that has the slice down to the bushing. That piece of metal is only about 3mm thick as it is. That gash is about 1mm deep.

Oh and I forgot to mention, the tech had me feel that whole pocket and when you run your fingers against the outsides you can feel a slight bend in the metal that kinda sinks towards the bushing.

Didn’t feel it so much on the other side. He said could be from heat and metal fatigue. Hard for me (or him really) to know.

I saw other posts you wrote about your tabs/gussets. Did you eventual go chaos?

 

[having fun]

The gussit kit will bring the integrity of the metal back. I would pull the LCA off and probably have raised gouges on that part that the bushings are contacting by the looks. Can grind them down flat with the rest of the pockets.
Personally, after the grinding/clean up, if there's too much slack with the LCA in place, beat the pocket tighter. Should be snug, having to force the LCA in the pocket, then weld the cam kit on per instructions.

 

[4runherpow]

The gussit kit will bring the integrity of the metal back. I would pull the LCA off and probably have raised gouges on that part that the bushings are contacting by the looks. Can grind them down flat with the rest of the pockets.
Personally, after the grinding/clean up, if there's too much slack with the LCA in place, beat the pocket tighter. Should be snug, having to force the LCA in the pocket, then weld the cam kit on per instructions.

Interesting you’d say that about the raised gouges. The Toyota tech said too that he wouldn’t be surprised if that gash was actually eating into the bushing every time it rotated.

At the end of the day my dillemma is two fold:
1. I spent almost two months, $$$$ of dollars, many of my own hard hours (away from my real job) getting her up to speed and ALL maintenace completed. She drives INCREDIBLE now. Engine purs, smooth shifts, and now zero noise over bumps. It freakin SUCKSSS if I have to put her on the sidelines again because some a$$ clown went saw happy and made a mistake he couldn’t easily take back.

My guess is if I want to drop the LCA, buy the guessets, have them welded in, and put back together with alignment I’m looking at over $1500 in Northern, VA. I, of course, will attempt to have the local shop pay for it but even with my powers of persuasion my worst case scenario is the total out of pocket cost. And considering how much I already spent it’s a pretty crappy way to have to start 2020 footing the dime for someone else’s mistake. Ugh

 

[AuSeeker]

Interesting you’d say that about the raised gouges. The Toyota tech said too that he wouldn’t be surprised if that gash was actually eating into the bushing every time it rotated.

At the end of the day my dillemma is two fold:
1. I spent almost two months, $$$$ of dollars, many of my own hard hours (away from my real job) getting her up to speed and ALL maintenace completed. She drives INCREDIBLE now. Engine purs, smooth shifts, and now zero noise over bumps. It freakin SUCKSSS if I have to put her on the sidelines again because some a$$ clown went saw happy and made a mistake he couldn’t easily take back.

My guess is if I want to drop the LCA, buy the guessets, have them welded in, and put back together with alignment I’m looking at over $1500 in Northern, VA. I, of course, will attempt to have the local shop pay for it but even with my powers of persuasion my worst case scenario is the total out of pocket cost. And considering how much I already spent it’s a pretty crappy way to have to start 2020 footing the dime for someone else’s mistake. Ugh

Document everything it takes to make things right, keep all receipts on what it costs to make it right, also before and after photos is a must, I would also take great pains to record if legal in your state or otherwise document any correspondence you have with the garage that did the work while trying to resolve this matter, etc., etc., a video of the Toyota Tech explaining the damages and the issues would of been a great bit of evidence, see if you can get it in writing from the dealership/Tech and maybe even a quote of them fixing the issues if they can do the work would be good..then if the garage that did the work refuses to pay for their screw up take them to small claims court, you should be able to recovery most if not all of what it costs you to get it fixed correctly....IF and only IF you have concrete evidence of what it costs you in time and money to get it right!

EDIT:Just an FYI I just checked and in Virginia it's a "One party consent state" when it comes to recording a conversation, phone call etc., meaning only one party has to agree/have knowledge to the conversation being recorded, you being one of the parties makes it legal to record any conversation you're a part of without the other party knowing it's being recorded.

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations - 50 State Survey :: Justia

Just be cordial/pleasant and don't say anything that will make you look bad while still standing your ground in any correspondence with the garage will go a long way in your favor in court, let them be the ones to say something out of line and or bad that will only hurt their standing in the matter.

 

[4runherpow]

Document everything it takes to make things right, keep all receipts on what it costs to make it right, also before and after photos is a must, I would also take great pains to record if legal in your state or otherwise document any correspondence you have with the garage that did the work while trying to resolve this matter, etc., etc., a video of the Toyota Tech explaining the damages and the issues would of been a great bit of evidence, see if you can get it in writing from the dealership/Tech and maybe even a quote of them fixing the issues if they can do the work would be good..then if the garage that did the work refuses to pay for their screw up take them to small claims court, you should be able to recovery most if not all of what it costs you to get it fixed correctly....IF and only IF you have concrete evidence of what it costs you in time and money to get it right!

EDIT:Just an FYI I just checked and in Virginia it's a "One party consent state" when it comes to recording a conversation, phone call etc., meaning only one party has to agree/have knowledge to the conversation being recorded, you being one of the parties makes it legal to record any conversation you're a part of without the other party knowing it's being recorded.

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations - 50 State Survey :: Justia

Just be cordial/pleasant and don't say anything that will make you look bad while still standing your ground in any correspondence with the garage will go a long way in your favor in court, let them be the ones to say something out of line and or bad that will only hurt their standing in the matter.

Wow, really good and thorough advice — thank you!

I already have in writing from Toyota that there was damaged done to control arm brackets during removal of old arms. I have the documentation that the garage performed that work. I’m going to have a really good body/fab shop estimate the damage and give me something in writing. I spoke with the garage already and told the manager I was very upset with what they did and it needed to be made right. He said he wanted to look at the damage with his tech (he was off) which will be tomorrow or Friday.

I will definitely heed the advice given.

I kind of hope that the fab shop thinks the repair can be done fairly easily as I do not want the garage to balk at a super high bill. I think of it can be done at a reasonable price I have a better chance of the garage paying. Lastly, I just want whoever does fix it to be VERY good at this type of work... any recommendations in the DC/NOVA area for a really good, no bs fab/4x4 shop?

Thanks again for all of the help. Greatly appreciated

 

[AuSeeker]

Wow, really good and thorough advice — thank you!

I already have in writing from Toyota that there was damaged done to control arm brackets during removal of old arms. I have the documentation that the garage performed that work. I’m going to have a really good body/fab shop estimate the damage and give me something in writing. I spoke with the garage already and told the manager I was very upset with what they did and it needed to be made right. He said he wanted to look at the damage with his tech (he was off) which will be tomorrow or Friday.

I will definitely heed the advice given.

I kind of hope that the fab shop thinks the repair can be done fairly easily as I do not want the garage to balk at a super high bill. I think of it can be done at a reasonable price I have a better chance of the garage paying. Lastly, I just want whoever does fix it to be VERY good at this type of work... any recommendations in the DC/NOVA area for a really good, no bs fab/4x4 shop?

Thanks again for all of the help. Greatly appreciated

If you have to resort to small claims court just be prepared because as the plaintiff the burden of proof is on you, so that's why having solid and irrefutable evidence as too what caused the damage and the cost to repair it is so important and the more the merrier for a positive outcome.

On another note, the fact that the LCA had to be cut out(which is somewhat common on these T4Rs) may not be in your favor in court so I would find some Youtube videos that shows how to do that the proper way without damaging the structure that remains after the LCA have been removed.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I saw other posts you wrote about your tabs/gussets. Did you eventual go chaos?

I have the marlin kit ready to install.

 

[4runherpow]

If you have to resort to small claims court just be prepared because as the plaintiff the burden of proof is on you, so that's why having solid and irrefutable evidence as too what caused the damage and the cost to repair it is so important and the more the merrier for a positive outcome.

On another note, the fact that the LCA had to be cut out(which is somewhat common on these T4Rs) may not be in your favor in court so I would find some Youtube videos that shows how to do that the proper way without damaging the structure that remains after the LCA have been removed.

Got it. Obviously hoping to avoid this but that’s solid advice.

 

[4runherpow]

I will update this thread once I talk to the fab shop. I like threads that have resolutions so I’ll try and stick to that philosophy

 

[That_Titanium_4RNR]

I will update this thread once I talk to the fab shop. I like threads that have resolutions so I’ll try and stick to that philosophy

Just a tip, when you're quoting people you need to make sure their username is included, all of your quotes are not showing who they are from thus, the person isn't getting any notification of your response. Just click the quote button and then type your message under their quote

 

[nevada]

Wow, really good and thorough advice — thank you!

I already have in writing from Toyota that there was damaged done to control arm brackets during removal of old arms. I have the documentation that the garage performed that work. I’m going to have a really good body/fab shop estimate the damage and give me something in writing. I spoke with the garage already and told the manager I was very upset with what they did and it needed to be made right. He said he wanted to look at the damage with his tech (he was off) which will be tomorrow or Friday.

I will definitely heed the advice given.

I kind of hope that the fab shop thinks the repair can be done fairly easily as I do not want the garage to balk at a super high bill. I think of it can be done at a reasonable price I have a better chance of the garage paying. Lastly, I just want whoever does fix it to be VERY good at this type of work... any recommendations in the DC/NOVA area for a really good, no bs fab/4x4 shop?

Thanks again for all of the help. Greatly appreciated

I understand you aren't happy with the initial work performed by the shop. however as a shop owner, shit happens sometimes, but I would always want the first shot at fixing the problem. it would be 100% free warranty work of course...

I dont really see too much that is concerning. the lower arms can be a real mother to get out once the bolt seizes to the sleeve. some marks and scarring is to be expected. they should have cleaned it up a bit. Im guessing the tech was pretty tired/frustrated after fighting to get them apart.

my suggestion is let the shop take a look, and see what they say, then go from there.

 

[jcaino]

I understand you aren't happy with the initial work performed by the shop. however as a shop owner, shit happens sometimes, but I would always want the first shot at fixing the problem. it would be 100% free warranty work of course...

I dont really see too much that is concerning. the lower arms can be a real mother to get out once the bolt seizes to the sleeve. some marks and scarring is to be expected. they should have cleaned it up a bit. Im guessing the tech was pretty tired/frustrated after fighting to get them apart.

my suggestion is let the shop take a look, and see what they say, then go from there.

Having cut out the cams and replaced the LCA's myself, there really is no excuse for those marks. It's easy as heck to the bolts without messing up the mounts that bad. Sawzall and a decent blade it takes very little time and is a straight cut. Once you realize the bolts are frozen (a minute or 2) you pull out the saw and have at it. Shop would obviously give the customer a call at this point, but it seems they were already replacing the LCA's and hardware, so not sure that would even be necessary here...

That said, I agree that you should take it back to the shop and give them the chance to make it right.

 

[gaber6]

Really the photos don't look too bad. I twisted those tabs a bit on mine getting mine out and hammered them back into place for the new install. Plenty of metal there to hold everything in place.

 

[4runherpow]

Just a tip, when you're quoting people you need to make sure their username is included, all of your quotes are not showing who they are from thus, the person isn't getting any notification of your response. Just click the quote button and then type your message under their quote

I m using the browser and not the app on my phone. So it looks like I’m suppose to type between the quote brackets it populated for me once I hit the out button. Is that not correct? Thanks for the heads up