Locker... again.

[Bumbo]

So... looking at lockers again and changed my tune a bit from the original time I did research.

My 4Runner is an off-road only truck... I don't daily drive it, and the only time I really off-road is local deserts, sand/hard pack driving. I do get into the rocks at time, but I dont actively seek it. To be honest I actually try and avoid aggressive rock crawling activities.

I am now thinking of a LunchBox in the rear, and a detroit-truetrac in the front. Originally I was thinking ARB, but the cost has held me back. Just too spendy for something that might see 1000-2000 miles a year on-road.

Front
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-16352445-toyota-tv6-rear-detroit-truetrac-tt-913a610.html

Rear
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-12003207-toyota-tv6-powertrax-lock-right-pt1620.html

It seems like the most cost effective way to get what I want. Fully mechanical setup... Does anyone see anything terribly wrong with this setup for my use case?

 

[63PGP]

Aussie rear and wait until you can afford the ARB in front.

I have a 92 Bronco with an ARB in the front since 2001. It been used (other than testing periodically to ensure function) about 20 times since 2001. Every time the truck was not going to move another inch. Every time after engaging the ARB I drove out of the situation. Most all would have required serious digging, mostly in snow if I didn't have the ARB. Half of those times have justified the cost for me.

I've replaced the air line a few times over the years and the compressor once.

Still worth every penny.

 

[Bumbo]

Isn't an Aussie and a LunchBox essentially the exact same thing?

I can understand why you are saying ARB in the front, but I was just taking some design ideas from the Ford Raptor, which does use a Torsen front diff, which would essentially be the same thing as a truetrac from what I understand.

Considering where I drive and go these days, I am just cruising around in the deserts, usually with all 4 wheels on the ground. I really don't think I am going to get as much use from an ARB if I am honest with myself.

I was actually thinking of skipping a font diff, but I still want to gear the truck. I might as well throw something in there because it needs to be opened up anyways.

Regarding snow, rain driving, and other travels like road trips, the chances of me using the 4Runner are slim to none because I have another truck I use for those things.

Plus I live in sunny southern CA, I dont really encounter those conditions, at least not when I am using the truck.

 

[Mike07SE]

I've got the True Trac in my rear diff and ARB in the front. I don't think TT has any applications that work in the front diff or else I would have gone that route too.

I did the ARB front as I wanted to have something rather than nothing when I did my regear. I like the TT in the back as it's always helping me in all conditions.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Bumbo]

[MENTION=20456]Mike07SE[/MENTION]

I was discussing the idea with the guy at my local differential shop and we were talking about TT in the front with a Lunchbox in the rear.

Ill double check to make sure its possible, but it didn't seem like it was going to be a problem. I've been seeing similar setups on other forums as well.

I did some reading on it here too:
Anyone runnin a Detroit TrueTrac up front? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

That said, I don't think a TT is the rear is the right move for me... I want the ability to spin both with one wheel off the ground. Plus for $300 for just the locker, seems like a good deal for my use.

 

[63PGP]

Isn't an Aussie and a LunchBox essentially the exact same thing?

Yes the Aussie is one of the lunchbox lockers. Just a specific recommendation over the others. My son has one in the rear of a 79 Bronco with an ARB in front and hammers on it. He loves it. No snow for that truck, just So Cal desert trails.

I have a TrueTrac in the rear of the 92 Bronco I referred to and I would install an Aussie over the TT if I ever did it again.

 

[Bumbo]

Yes the Aussie is one of the lunchbox lockers. Just a specific recommendation over the others. My son has one in the rear of a 79 Bronco with an ARB in front and hammers on it. He loves it. No snow for that truck, just So Cal desert trails.

I have a TrueTrac in the rear of the 92 Bronco I referred to and I would install an Aussie over the TT if I ever did it again.

Gotcha, that makes perfect sense. Thank You.

Aussie in the rear seems like a solid choice for $300.

I might consider the rear for now...I just want to get my feet wet in the locker game.

After watching a few videos... it seems like something within my comfort zone. I might try and knock this out myself just to save the money.

It doesn't appear I need any too special tools aside for a couple good torque wrenches and time.

 

[RonJR]

The rear is pretty easy, since you can pull the whole 3rd member out and work on it on your bench. I think you can install the Aussie w/o removing the carrier from the 3rd member, which means you won't have to reset the ring-pinion backlash. Even if you do have to pull the carrier, resetting the backlash isn't difficult. Just buy a $30 dial indicator from HF, and set up to measure the backlash before you pull anything apart. Make sure you can get consistent, repeatable, reasonable readings (.008" give or take), and then when you reassemble the carrier, set it back to the same value, and you should be good to go.

This website Gear Install Harrop is a treasure trove of installation info about Toyota diffs. Zuk has detailed pictures and writeups of almost anything you might want to do.

 

[Drunner97]

The reason you don't want a lunchbox locker in the front is because you don't want it locking at the wrong time, especially on pavement. You can blow a CV real quick like that. Front locker should only really be used when you absolutely need it so you aren't binding up the front end going around corners. Even with the rear you have to be incredibly careful going around corners on pavement. I've ridden with [MENTION=117408]Oneluv13T4R[/MENTION], who has a rear lunchbox, and those things are noisy.

Honestly, if you're going to do it right, I'd just regear and lock at the same time. I just got done doing front and rear gears to 4.88 with ARB air lockers front/rear and only spent about 3k after core return. You're going to want to regear eventually as you add more weight on and bigger tires. Trust me. My rig has so much torque, and she feels absolutely amazing on acceleration now it's ridiculous. I ran White Mountain on Saturday and I walked right up the entire trail with ATRAC barely kicking in, compared to two months ago when ATRAC was working overtime to get me up the same trail. The gearing alone was worth it. If you're not going to run front/rear steel bumpers you could probably get away with 4.56s, but my rig is incredibly loaded down with a ton of extra weight.

 

[SAC-CA-Runner]

The reason you don't want a lunchbox locker in the front is because you don't want it locking at the wrong time, especially on pavement. You can blow a CV real quick like that. Front locker should only really be used when you absolutely need it so you aren't binding up the front end going around corners. Even with the rear you have to be incredibly careful going around corners on pavement. I've ridden with [MENTION=117408]Oneluv13T4R[/MENTION], who has a rear lunchbox, and those things are noisy.

Honestly, if you're going to do it right, I'd just regear and lock at the same time. I just got done doing front and rear gears to 4.88 with ARB air lockers front/rear and only spent about 3k after core return. You're going to want to regear eventually as you add more weight on and bigger tires. Trust me. My rig has so much torque, and she feels absolutely amazing on acceleration now it's ridiculous. I ran White Mountain on Saturday and I walked right up the entire trail with ATRAC barely kicking in, compared to two months ago when ATRAC was working overtime to get me up the same trail. The gearing alone was worth it. If you're not going to run front/rear steel bumpers you could probably get away with 4.56s, but my rig is incredibly loaded down with a ton of extra weight.

Interesting to see that you went 4.88. Is that because of the V6? I went back and forth between 4.56 and 4.88 and finally settled on 4.56 because I'm a V8. The consensus was that the V8 already starts with more torque so the extra gearing of the 4.88 wasn't needed. Also, I never plan going bigger than 33-34" tires (285/70/17 right now). I do have front steel bumper, full steel skids and sliders, rear Wilco, RTT, sound deadening, etc, etc so I'm definitely weighed down. I'm also going with only a ARB rear locker and leaving the front alone, except for gears. I don't do any super duper rock crawling so figured I didn't need front locker as I'd probably never use it. Just hope I don't regret not going 4.88. I guess 4.56 is better than nothing!

Sorry for the threadjack!

 

[Drunner97]

Interesting to see that you went 4.88. Is that because of the V6? I went back and forth between 4.56 and 4.88 and finally settled on 4.56 because I'm a V8. The consensus was that the V8 already starts with more torque so the extra gearing of the 4.88 wasn't needed. Also, I never plan going bigger than 33-34" tires (285/70/17 right now). I do have front steel bumper, full steel skids and sliders, rear Wilco, RTT, sound deadening, etc, etc so I'm definitely weighed down. I'm also going with only a ARB rear locker and leaving the front alone, except for gears. I don't do any super duper rock crawling so figured I didn't need front locker as I'd probably never use it. Just hope I don't regret not going 4.88. I guess 4.56 is better than nothing!

Sorry for the threadjack!

I think you'll be fine with 4.56s in the V8. I went 4.88s because of the V6 and the amount of weight I have. Front plate bumper with winch, rear steel bumper with swing out, dual batteries, full skids front to rear (although my transfer and transmission skids are aluminum), sliders, Prinsu roof rack, and I'll be going up to 35s next year.

 

[Oneluv13T4R]

Here is the best read on all lockers ...hands down
Also talks about the Spartan Locker I Run...
Even explains about running a front locker and the best one for that ..

https://www.ringpinion.com/Technica...ing_differentials,_spools_and_mini-spools.inc

 

[Johnny4runner]

It's it's truely a full time off road rig, get a detroit locker read end, the housing is stronger over a lunch box locker, and it probably works a bit more smoothly. If you are going to be driving on ice at all, get an ARB or a Truetrac in the rear. I have a Truetrac and love it on and off road, including snow and ice.

I went 4.88 also. It was a good option with the older 4-speed automatic. Probably not as important with the lower 1st in the newer 5-speed.

Front
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-16352445-toyota-tv6-rear-detroit-truetrac-tt-913a610.html

BTW there is no Truetrac option for the 8" clamshell front diff.

 

[Bumbo]

It's it's truely a full time off road rig, get a detroit locker read end, the housing is stronger over a lunch box locker, and it probably works a bit more smoothly. If you are going to be driving on ice at all, get an ARB or a Truetrac in the rear. I have a Truetrac and love it on and off road, including snow and ice.

I went 4.88 also. It was a good option with the older 4-speed automatic. Probably not as important with the lower 1st in the newer 5-speed.



BTW there is no Truetrac option for the 8" clamshell front diff.

I never really took into consideration the transmission I had when looking at gearing.

I am currently on a 32.1" BFG MT... and my original gearing pick was 4.56

I do have a V6 with the 4 Speed transmission... what about that combination makes the 4.88 a better overall choice?

I believe this is the unit you are recommending in the rear? Basically same function as a Lunchbox, just has its own carrier? Eaton Detroit Locker Traction Control Differential, Locking Differential

I know Truetrac is a product brand name from Eaton. Who else makes a Torsen style front diff for the 8" front? I believe I am asking for a mechanical limited slip diff right? Just trying to keep this all straight in my head.

 

[63PGP]

I know Truetrac is a product brand name from Eaton. Who else makes a Torsen style front diff for the 8" front? I believe I am asking for a mechanical limited slip diff right? Just trying to keep this all straight in my head.

I could be wrong but I don't think you are going to find a limited slip for the front. I searched all the major sites and brands and the only thing I see are ARB and Eaton E locker. Maybe someone else has a source but I can't find it.

 

[Bumbo]

I could be wrong but I don't think you are going to find a limited slip for the front. I searched all the major sites and brands and the only thing I see are ARB and Eaton E locker. Maybe someone else has a source but I can't find it.

Ill talk to my diff shop again, but if that truly is the case, it sounds like my options are either the ARB or nothing for the front.

For me personally I would probable pass on doing the front diff, because I really don't want to spend ARB money.

For how I plan on using the truck, the Torsen style front would really be an awesome options being able to drive both wheels and allow for slip when turning. The only downside being when a wheel leaves the ground.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Ill talk to my diff shop again, but if that truly is the case, it sounds like my options are either the ARB or nothing for the front.

For me personally I would probable pass on doing the front diff, because I really don't want to spend ARB money.

For how I plan on using the truck, the Torsen style front would really be an awesome options being able to drive both wheels and allow for slip when turning. The only downside being when a wheel leaves the ground.

I think A-TRAC works pretty well, not sure I would spend money on a limited slip type function because in my mind we basically already have it with A-TRAC.

I'm not sure of the use-case for a locker in the desert, have you gotten stuck where a locker would have benefited you? I'm not trying to be "that guy", I'm sure you know your terrain better than I do, but maybe that money can be better spent elsewhere? Interior cargo drawers or roof rack maybe? I don't think I would spend any money on the front diff other than to regear in your use-case. Maybe a selectable in the rear but I would think other mods would come before it like I mentioned.

 

[Bumbo]

I think A-TRAC works pretty well, not sure I would spend money on a limited slip type function because in my mind we basically already have it with A-TRAC.

I'm not sure of the use-case for a locker in the desert, have you gotten stuck where a locker would have benefited you? I'm not trying to be "that guy", I'm sure you know your terrain better than I do, but maybe that money can be better spent elsewhere? Interior cargo drawers or roof rack maybe? I don't think I would spend any money on the front diff other than to regear in your use-case. Maybe a selectable in the rear but I would think other mods would come before it like I mentioned.

As I mentioned above, I could skip the front diff and probably not miss it at all.

I don't get stuck often, and if I get stuck in the desert these days, it was pretty much bad technique... stopping on an incline, breaking too hard in sand, bogging from not holding a lower gear /loosing momentum in deeper sand. Nothing I cant fix with the traction pads and a shovel I do carry.

That said, I still have other groups of friends who are avid trail junkies and do wheel their trucks. I've been on enough trips where even a rear locker would have saved me from needing to reach for a tow strap and a radio to call back a friend.

I need to understand more about my 4Runner traction control systems. When I think TRAC "A-TRAC" engages often enough that it nannies throttle from wheel spin. To be honest I spend almost 80% of my driving in the desert with the center transfer case locked just to disable VSC and all that other junk.

Going off topic, I have though of the wire cut / switch mod, or simply dumping my zero point calibration just so I don't have to modify anything. Still a theory I need to test this season.

Considering I can't drive in 2WD without turning off these items, I am always in 4Hi or Low with center locked.

I just want better power delivery in the rear, and the ability to do a little steering with the throttle.

That said, I still like the idea of a mechanical Torsen / LSD, which would allow me to completely dump the need for TRAC / A-TRAC to work.

 

[Drunner97]

Ill talk to my diff shop again, but if that truly is the case, it sounds like my options are either the ARB or nothing for the front.

For me personally I would probable pass on doing the front diff, because I really don't want to spend ARB money.

For how I plan on using the truck, the Torsen style front would really be an awesome options being able to drive both wheels and allow for slip when turning. The only downside being when a wheel leaves the ground.

You already have atrac in the front if you really need something. Atrac has pulled me up and over all sorts of shit. You really don't need lockers until you're actually crawling stuff because atrac becomes useless when you need controlled traction.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[RonJR]

A full locker is most useful when the two wheels on an axle have vastly different traction. I.e., one wheel lifted, or one on ice and the other on pavement, etc. If both wheels are just pretty much equally in poor traction (sand, snow, mud, etc.) a limited slip or ATRAC will do you just as much good as a full locker.

For rock crawling a locker is very valuable. I don't do much desert sand driving, so I can't tell you much about that.