Lockers on the V8 Full Time 4Wheel Drive

Desert Fox

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I have a 2003 Limited V8 with full time 4 wheel drive. It has a center diff locker.
I am thinking of adding lockers to front, back or both. Not sure if I would go with electric or air locker.

I am looking for your experience with adding lockers to the same system.
 
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I'll be interested to listen in on this thread as well as I am planning same for my rig this winter.

I am leaning toward elockers rather than pneumatic.
 
I believe the only electric option is the stock elocker from tacos or maybe FJs? And I've read it's more of a PITA than it's worth compared to air.

ARB makes air lockers for boths ends, and I think TJM makes an air locker for the rear.

IIRC the only other options are full locking diffs.
 
True, I have a 3rd gen but I can speak of the ARB air locker. GREAT! Instant on and off. If you take care connecting and running the air line, it works great. I can try an obstacle open, not make it, stop, lock and drive thru. There is little to no roll in needed (little as in inches). Most e-lockers can be stubborn and need roll in and out to lock/unlock.
 
From the research that I've been doing, the IFS front end drive components (axles, CV's) need to be beefed up to take the increased stresses on those components when using a locker but I've not read that it's not recommended as long as you address the known weaknesses.
 
From the research that I've been doing, the IFS front end drive components (axles, CV's) need to be beefed up to take the increased stresses on those components when using a locker but I've not read that it's not recommended as long as you address the known weaknesses.

The biggest stresses come when locked and the steering is turned and on a high traction surface. The wheels have a large rolling differential between the two. The locker restricts (when locked) this differential. Something has to give, either the tires have to slip or something is going to break.

A locked IFS will limit the wild wheel spin, of an open diff, minimizing the breakage when floating wheels. (When floating a wheel, all the power will go to the wheel in the air. This power will spin the tire at twice the speed)
 
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So for those with the V8 4wd you have a Toyota 8" turbo v6 rear axle and up front a Toyota 8" IFS clamshell. Factory runs A 3.73 final drive ratio

The V6 engine models come factory with a 3.93 final drive ratio and I believe the 7.5" IFS clamshell up front

Any-who.. Some one above posted some risks in locking the front IFS. they were correct in the one stress being added when you do select to engage the locker and were to make a turn, if you were on the road you would certainly bind up the front axle causing potential breaking of the CV axle shafts. Off road however loose dirt, mud, snow, ice will allow the inside tire of the turn to slip and not cause much added stress.

I wanted to add to this by saying a front locker isnt something you want to run locked all the time a front locker is at best only engaged when your driving straight such as a straight hill climb at a steep grade, or squared up to what your driving through. YOU NEVER WANT TO ENGAGE A FRONT LOCKER IF YOU ARE AT ANY KIND OF OFF CAMBER ANGLE TO THE TERRAIN YOUR ON. this is because when both front wheels are engaged together they both have the ability to spin this can cause for front end to slide side to side (like the rear would per say during a burn out scenario). If you were to be at an off camber angle attempting a hill climb or climbing over some rocks with the front locked your giving the truck the option to let the front slide left or right to a more off camber angle an potentially causing a roll over situation. It's been said as well as I've been reminded many times a front locker on IFS or a Straight axle will put you on your side faster than anything else out there lol. A front locker is only used when A.) your gearing ratios and rear locker won't get you through the terrain B.) you've high center'd and still manage to have one front tire on the ground and one rear tire on the ground and C.) durring straight steep graded hill climbs/decents

A rear locker can be engaged at all times off-road as the back tires can slip around turns and not cause any binding, On road you would only want this engaged per say if you were lauching at a drag strip in a straight line or locked on the road in snowy icy conditions but it needs to be known that durring a turn in slippery conditions your back end is going to fish tail a little if your at any kind of high speed.

Point being think of it this way a rear locker is a "I'm kinda stuck switch/prevent getting stuck switch" the front locker is a "I'm really really stuck an this will hopefully help switch/ this is a really steep hill and its straight up switch"

I think it was mentioned before but when i read it i felt it didn't quite explain this next concept well enough...
With Factory open front and rear diffs you actually produce more stress on the individual axles/ CV half shafts in off-road driving as typically only one is receiving power transfer from the engine to the ground. Also with open diff's you have to use momentum to get through many obstacles causing high wheel speeds (more stress on axles) and bouncing (more stress on axles)

when you add a locker you give both axles the ability to share the load equally in turn taking stress away from one axle and sharing it with the opposite side preventing broken axles. Also you gain the ability to crawl at slower more controlled speeds making for a safe pass as well as reducing stresses on your axle shafts compared to having an open diff.

yes theres more... When you purchase a locking carrier such as ARB, TJM, Spartan Locker, etc. your getting an extremely strong carrier also extremely expensive carrier. By beefing up your CV axles and Rear Axle shafts you in turn apply more stress to the carrier itself. In my experience its way easier to change an axle shaft than it is to replace an entire carrier. As to why its my preference to have a weaker axle shaft than the carrier so that if somethings going to break it's going to be either A.) a drive shaft U-joint B.) axle shaft Which are both less expensive and easier to replace than the differential.

Obviously you would never want to put a spool locker or limited slip in the front you would always want the front axle select-ably locked. The rear you can get away running a full time locker but you'll eat up rubber on dry pavement I know a few guys that run welded rear carriers where they weld the spider gears together creating a full time locker they drive on road fine but they do eat tires.

As far as the best budget way to go about adding lockers or upgrading any of your axle componants I've found its much cheaper to buy complete assemble'd IFS housings and rear third members from Drivetrain Specialists East Coast Gear Supply They do great work and offer a 5 year warranty on ring an pinion installs. compared to pricing out all the parts it would take me to build the carriers myself against ECGS doing it theres about a 1000-1500 dollar difference pending your driveline setup (ECGS being 1000-1500 dollars cheaper)

Regearing is also an option with this modification as your building the whole differential you have the option to regear to accommodate larger tires or get more low end torque for steep obstacles.

I'm actually installing front and rear air lockers tonight I'll be adding chromoly axle shafts to the rear but i'll be running factory CV half shafts (new ones but factory) and regearing to 4.56 gears so i'll certainly give feed back to this thread as i gain experience from the upgrade and driving it. as far as price for me to add air lockers, rear shafts, re-gear, and high output on-board air It put me just over 4k after purchasing new rear hub bearings (mine were kinda toast), third member gasket, and gear oil(purchased enough for initial install, and a diff fluid change after 500 mile break in of new ring and pinion gears) you can select cheaper locker carriers or perhaps a limited slip in the rear and get the price down gaining the same ability I just wanted to go with what i knew was going to hold up to my driving style
 
and yes the only option for elock is in the rear and thats going with a toyota factory e-lock carrier. and you can incorporate the elock carrier into the 8" turbo V6 axle housing it just takes a little grinding and drilling to make room for the electric solenoid and the different bolt pattern.

there is no elock option for the front axle.

I went with a TJM air locker over ARB in the rear because TJM has A.) been building lockers long before ARB was a thought and B.) there solenoid design is better than ARB's as ARB's air solenoid design puts the air line in the housing to close to the gear oil and durring engaging and dis-engaging the locker it can potentially pumping gear oil into the air line causing the locker to not engage eventually ARB created a solution for this by adding valving in the plumbing setup to send constant low pressure to the rear axle to prevent oil getting in the line(so you would have to keep your compressor on all the time didnt like that) I've found nothing negative about he ARB front locker for the IFS and TJM doesnt make a locker for our front axles so this is why i went with the TJM in the rear ARB in the front
 
As far as the front tires bindin enough to break something, I was thinking but then did not type, Moab rock. There is so much traction that you could seriously bind things up. The scenario that I'm thinking about is... You lock to get thru a rough/loose obstacle but don't unlock right away and turn hard to setup for the next obstacle. This will cause major bind. The solution is to unlock immediately after making it thru an obstacle.

Great point about off chamber and being locked. I'm sure off chamber and locked in front on a slippery trail will get you in trouble fast. But off chamber/rear locked/slippery trail will toss the rear down hill fast. I have driven thru an off chamber snow covered trail, open/open, without much issued where a double auto locked rig got into serious trouble. Another trip, snowy, I was climbing this trail, locked, the trail slanted a little and I found myself stuck sideways. The more I tried to get out, the more I got stuck. Then I remembered that I was locked. I unlocked and drove straight out.

Lockers are awesome but are not the answer in all cases. Use them wisely. I use my locker only when I need it and I always assess the situation.
 
As far as the front tires bindin enough to break something, I was thinking but then did not type, Moab rock. There is so much traction that you could seriously bind things up. The scenario that I'm thinking about is... You lock to get thru a rough/loose obstacle but don't unlock right away and turn hard to setup for the next obstacle. This will cause major bind. The solution is to unlock immediately after making it thru an obstacle.

Great point about off chamber and being locked. I'm sure off chamber and locked in front on a slippery trail will get you in trouble fast. But off chamber/rear locked/slippery trail will toss the rear down hill fast. I have driven thru an off chamber snow covered trail, open/open, without much issued where a double auto locked rig got into serious trouble. Another trip, snowy, I was climbing this trail, locked, the trail slanted a little and I found myself stuck sideways. The more I tried to get out, the more I got stuck. Then I remembered that I was locked. I unlocked and drove straight out.

Lockers are awesome but are not the answer in all cases. Use them wisely. I use my locker only when I need it and I always assess the situation.

:iagree:

def shows the difference in off-road conditions from west to east as out my way our trails are much more clay, dirt, loose rock, and some bolders hear an there. and when it rains oh man it gets crazy! :lookout:

Lockers can get you in trouble just as fast as they can get you out sometimes. It def. takes knowing when to lock up and when to unlock. Watch some of the baja race in cab video's they run IFS you'll see the passenger continuously engaging and releasing the lockers front an rear at different times. (whats awesome is there making those decisions at 60mph+ so sick! lol)

Mainly what i was getting at you can get away with air locking the front without worrying to much about beefing up the half shafts you just have to be aware of what your doing when you engage that locker. same with the rear
 
Subbed...

Gerdo and Aha, some great points being made here by some knowledgeable individuals. Thanks for schooling the lesser knowledgeable :thumb3:
 
Locking the rear in 2wd will allow you to do some great donuts.

permitted traction control is disabled lol

to bad the V8's are full time all wheel drive. I am curious to find out if i lock the rear axle and leave the center diff open if it will send all power to the rear if i can get the tires to spin over
 
permitted traction control is disabled lol

to bad the V8's are full time all wheel drive. I am curious to find out if i lock the rear axle and leave the center diff open if it will send all power to the rear if i can get the tires to spin over

Oh yeah, there is that. Mine is a caveman 4runner, no electronics for traction.
 
permitted traction control is disabled lol

to bad the V8's are full time all wheel drive. I am curious to find out if i lock the rear axle and leave the center diff open if it will send all power to the rear if i can get the tires to spin over

First, thank you for the education, this is what I was looking for. I am convinced to just go with a rear locker and it sounds like Air is the only option.

Is there any concern with the using a rear diff locker and the cneter diff locker together?

In a later post you mentioned disconnecting the VSC, do you have a writ up on how to do that? I would like to be able to switch that on and off at will if possible.
 

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