Long brake pedal travel

[schmauster]

Brakes feel ok but they engage very low. Can’t lock up the tires. I have done the TBU, replaced the rear wheel cylinders, replaced master cylinder (helped a lot), upgraded to stainless steel braided lines, adjusted the e brake rear brake to come on at 2 clicks, power bled the system at 20 psi.

Any ideas?

EDIT: Added master cylinder to list of things i changed

 

[jross20]

Does it seem like you basically have to push almost all the way down and then it becomes really firm? But doesn't seem like it's helping you that much? I've noticed that mine feel like that, if I have to really stop hard I really got to push the shit out of that pedal...

Maybe we both need new master cylinders?

 

[Brian.]

Brakes feel ok but they engage very low. Can’t lock up the tires. I have done the TBU, replaced the rear wheel cylinders, upgraded to stainless steel braided lines, adjusted the e brake rear brake to come on at 2 clicks, power bled the system at 20 psi.

Any ideas?

3 thoughts come immediately to mind. Shot seals in the master cylinder that allow for fluid to "bleed back" vs pressurizing the system. Air trapped in the system (ABS is the usual suspect, but you need software and a late 99+ or to be able to lock up the brakes). The third is that some people have encountered this before with the TBU and Never figured it out.

If the brakes were working fine (pedal travel/feel) before the TBU upgrade, it's almost certainly air in the system. Time to go to each junction point with a rag, helper on the pedal as you crack it free and do a 1-pump bleed from each, and every, connection in the brake system. Air likes to hold on at junction points, this is the fastest way to resolve it. Pressure bleeding with air already in the system just leads to cavitation/breaking up of the air and doesn't usually resolve the problem (at least in my experiences). I'd probably leave the ABS pieces till last, just to see if I could get the ABS to kick on after doing the rest.

You could also try parking on a Steep incline overnight and tapping all the lines before leaving it. Might help the air brake free and migrate to the highest point (nose up, obviously). Might also do nothing... used to work well on motorcycles, next morning would always find a good bit of air at the banjo bolt for the master cylinder.

 

[Devbot]

FYI, ebrake has nothing to do with pedal feel. All you're doing is wearing out the cable faster and making it harder to use
I currently have the same problem, which I suspect is because my fluid is 20 years old and the color of an emerald. I drained a good bit out and replaced it a couple weeks ago and it firmed up greatly for a day or two but thats it

 

[octanejunkie]

TBU can introduce soft pedal feel

adjusted the e brake rear brake to come on at 2 clicks

Factory says 5-7, 2 is too low

Brakes feel ok but they engage very low. Can’t lock up the tires. I have done the TBU, replaced the rear wheel cylinders, upgraded to stainless steel braided lines

Check the FSM for pedal height check/adjustment. If you didn't touch the MC or booster a booster/MC shaft length/adjustment shouldn't be necessary.

Have you tested ABS yet?



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[majdomo]

Be absolutely sure you don’t have air in the system. I used a vacuum bleeder first and had tons of air in the lines after my TBU. Enlisted my son to help on a 2-man bleed and got it down pat.

Pressure bleeds are better than vacuum, but simple is sometimes best.

TBU does introduce a softer pedal but that’s the trade off for reducing / eliminating rotor runout.


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[toverturf]

I had this problem but without the TBU. I replaced the master cylinder, got stainless steel brake lines, rebuilt the rear brakes, bled it a ton, and nothing worked. Turns out it was the ABS module. Got a junkyard one and no more long pedal travel. I didn't have error codes or anything but clearly something was wrong with it.

 

[schmauster]

TBU can introduce soft pedal feel



Factory says 5-7, 2 is too low



Check the FSM for pedal height check/adjustment. If you didn't touch the MC or booster a booster/MC shaft length/adjustment shouldn't be necessary.

Have you tested ABS yet?



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I have actuated the ABS on dirt roads and it works fine if thats what you mean. I have changed out the master cylinder and booster in the past so these things are absolutely valid things to check. Very helpful. Few origional parts remain on this 4Runner. It was neglected when i met my long time GF and it has 380,000 miles!

This will be my first plan of attack, i didnt realize the FSM had numbers on this.

I had this problem but without the TBU. I replaced the master cylinder, got stainless steel brake lines, rebuilt the rear brakes, bled it a ton, and nothing worked. Turns out it was the ABS module. Got a junkyard one and no more long pedal travel. I didn't have error codes or anything but clearly something was wrong with it.

Im going to check the adjustment of the pedal and brake rod first but ive got a feeling this might be my problem. Ive bled about 3/4 of a gallon through the system in one go and its still not getting much better. I had a bunch of hard crunchy chunks in one wheel cylinder. Maybe parts of the ABS module. Maybe ill crack the old broken ABS module open and see what failed if that ends up fixing it.

Rumor has it you can pull the ABS fuse to see if the pedal gets better. Maybe ill try it out.

Hope this goes smoothly for me. Next thing on the list is getting the mice out of the vents and a new heater core..

 

[FD7683]

I have been chasing this problem for years but I gave up like a year or so ago. It has a long travel just like yours but it firms up good. Went from adjusting the e-brake to brake bleed and nothing. Apparently the ABS module as a whole (96-00) might be the big cause of this problem.

 

[schmauster]

I might hit up the yard tomorrow and grab an ABS module. Theyre pretty cheap and theres only one 4Runner near me.


Since squishy brakes are common it makes sense why Toyota called it the 4Runner ("fore" as in, front of the line)

 

[Brian.]

Since squishy brakes are common it makes sense why Toyota called it the 4Runner ("fore" as in, front of the line)

Don't lump them all together. My stock brake system 4runner has Exceptional brake feel, not squishy at all and has appropriate pedal travel. It's only common among those who try to out-engineer Toyota by swapping parts around from different models.

 

[schmauster]

Don't lump them all together. My stock brake system 4runner has Exceptional brake feel, not squishy at all and has appropriate pedal travel. It's only common among those who try to out-engineer Toyota by swapping parts around from different models.

Welcome to the custom car scene

 

[brillo_76]

I don't know about anyone else... The only reason I swapped mine Calipers out were for the wider rotors was to get rid of the constant warping rotors. As I was sick of the warping thin rotors.

I tried everything to prevent them from warping.. Back brakes adjusted up you name it. They only last 3 to 6 months max and warp. Granted its all up and down hills in my area may have something to do with it.

However, Mine don't feel spongy soft at all. They feel just like they did with the stock OEM calipers and rotors on. [Except for they no longer warp ]

 

[Toya!]

Seems like I am having the same issue (besides the ABS working? *maybe*).

I have played with the pedal distance, and no matter what, it all feels the same. Long travel then 3/4 of the way down it brakes perfectly normal. I have replaced the entire rear brakes, front brakes (non TBU), and some ABS components. Ive bled the brakes 10 times with no change happening. Ive researched like a mother so if you want to bounce questions off me send me a PM.

 

[phattyduck]

FYI, ebrake has nothing to do with pedal feel.

It can if it is way loose, but he tightened it too much. That won't be the issue.

Here's the factory procedure for the '96-'00 4Runners:

Pay special attention to the master cylinder bleeding procedure and wheel order. If that doesn't work, go activate the ABS system and bleed again. It may take a couple ABS cycles and bleeds to get all the air out.

-Charlie

 

[Devbot]

It can if it is way loose

How so, if your pedal/hydraulics are in no way tied to the cable?
Granted I don't have drum brakes memorized.

 

[Skulking]

How so, if your pedal/hydraulics are in no way tied to the cable?

If your ebrake cable is loose and doesn't move the brake shoes when you pull it, then the autoadjusters on the drums don't do their job, and you can end up with weird pedal feel due to the longer shoe travel that then causes.

EDIT: The same thing can happen if you just don't use your parking brake.

 

[brillo_76]

I have seen the bellcranks frozen and the cable seized which will not let the adjuster auto adjust the rear brake shoes. If this happens or you don't ever backup using your e brake on occasion The shoes continue to slowly wear down increasing your pedal travel because the wheel cylinders have to more fluid to move to apply the brakes in the drums.

Before, I fixed my emergency brake properly, I would check my rear drums ( every 5K miles ) to make sure they slightly dragged. If they didn't I would manually adjust the brake adjuster to keep my pedal decent.

Now if you are sitting at a stoplight with your foot on the brake pedal stopped. With you feeling the pedal creeping to the floor slowly moving. Mostly that is caused by seeping o rings on your master cylinder plunger itself.

 

[phattyduck]

How so, if your pedal/hydraulics are in no way tied to the cable?
Granted I don't have drum brakes memorized.

Obviously...

The drums are mechanically adjusted by using the parking brake. The shoes can 'over retract' and cause excessive pedal travel if not adjusted correctly. It also feels very odd when it does this.

-Charlie

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

Obviously...

The drums are mechanically adjusted by using the parking brake. The shoes can 'over retract' and cause excessive pedal travel if not adjusted correctly. It also feels very odd when it does this.

-Charlie

Had the same issue. Pedal travel to the floor. Brakes only grabbed in last 1/4 of travel and couldn’t get it to ABS. One drum was like 1mm off the shoes. Other one wouldn’t even come off. Adjusted both about 4-5 clicks and totally fixed the issue.


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