Looking for more clarity on P0420 fix

JRBarlow

New member
Have a 2000 SR5 with 100k and have been getting CEL (P0420) since last fall with pretty big gaps of time between re-occurence. Two weeks ago, cleared code again and it came back within a day so decided to take it in / get o2 sensor replaced.

Local mechanic said both cats need to be replaced which was not what I was expecting -- as everyone else here knows, big $$$.

So, I am trying to force the o2 sensor change but would like to know how I can tell if the cats are bad. What are the ranges I should see on a diagnostic report?

If my cats are bad, my mechanic said I cannot use an aftermarket b/c the ECU doesn's play nice with non-OEM parts and hence trips the CEL eventhough the parts are good. Has anyone had experienc with this if I moved to an aftermark, like Catco.

Thanks for the help on my first post.
 
Register to hide this ad
Welcome. Good to see a fellow Bostonian. What part of Boston are you?

Lots of threads on this. Search it and you will get lots of info.

My opinion: Ignore it, just keep clearing it when it comes on. As long as you can squeak by inspection, it's not worth fixing. I have had one since i bought the thing last year.

Yeah, it likely means you need to replace the cats, and yeah aftermarket cats may not cause the CEL to go out. If I ever decide I want to get rid of the CEL, I am just going to buy the O2 simulator and leave my stock cats in.
 
I've got the same problem - CEL/PO420. After reading of many threads on this subject I have decided to replace rear O2 sensor first and then, if that wont help, replace the front sensor. So I bought a rear sensor from Amazon.com and then I run into the problem how to remove the original one. The mounting nuts got so rusty so there is no way I can take the sensor off. It looks like I need to remove the complete center pipe first and then try to file nuts to screw them off. Nelson: can you advise on this subject?
 
Thanks Nelson (I live in Weston, you?) and Alp.

I will do some more digging on this site and others. Givne the CEL came on within a day (unlike previous periods when it would go 2-3 months), I am not sure I can squeak by on this. Though, inspection doesnt come up until Jan.

Thinking hard about buying aftermark and putting on myself with new o2 sensors. But would love to know if the cats are really bad or is it just the o2 sensors as many on other posts have implied. There has to be some data on the expected engine output to know is there is a problem. Clearly the sensor is picking up a problem b/c there is nothing on the cat to signal the monitoring system.
 
Not sure if this will work on a 4runner, but I would guess it will...

On a Subaru forester, you can add two spark plug anti-foulers between the rear o2 sensor and the pipe. This essentially cuts the o2 sensor off from the pipe and makes it think the readings it's getting are good. It won't stop a code if it's something besides the rear sensor, and it doesn't fix the sensor, but it's about $6 to keep the CEL off if that is the cause.

Google forester o2 antifouler fix for more info. I would imagine it works the same on a t4r....
 
I've got the same problem - CEL/PO420. After reading of many threads on this subject I have decided to replace rear O2 sensor first and then, if that wont help, replace the front sensor. So I bought a rear sensor from Amazon.com and then I run into the problem how to remove the original one. The mounting nuts got so rusty so there is no way I can take the sensor off. It looks like I need to remove the complete center pipe first and then try to file nuts to screw them off. Nelson: can you advise on this subject?

Yeah, there is a chance that your O2 sensor has a problem. The nuts are on studs that screw into the O2 sensor bung. When I took mine off, I grabbed the nut with some vice grips and ended up screwing the whole stud out (mine were super rusty too). Definitely use PB blaster or equivalent. I replaced the stud with a bolt, but that was probably a bad idea since the bolt is rusted in there now. I may take it out and try to get a new stud just so I dont' break anything off into the bung.

EDIT: I have never been able to find the correct PN for the stud as it doesn't show up on and of the diagrams I have seen. A couple studs show up for the exhaust manifold, so I am curious if one of them will fit the O2 sensor bung. Anyone happen to have these laying around and can measure? Probably not, but it's worth a try.

If you can break the nut off on it's own, then clean the threads with a die, that works too. I did that on my pastor's 4runner

Thanks Nelson (I live in Weston, you?) and Alp.

I will do some more digging on this site and others. Givne the CEL came on within a day (unlike previous periods when it would go 2-3 months), I am not sure I can squeak by on this. Though, inspection doesnt come up until Jan.

Thinking hard about buying aftermark and putting on myself with new o2 sensors. But would love to know if the cats are really bad or is it just the o2 sensors as many on other posts have implied. There has to be some data on the expected engine output to know is there is a problem. Clearly the sensor is picking up a problem b/c there is nothing on the cat to signal the monitoring system.

I live in Watertown. A couple of us mass guys have gotten together to do some work (HuntNFish and SkidPalace). If you ever want some help, just let me know; I am always up for meeting up, and i have lots of tools at my place.

Give it some time. I have had mine come on again right away a couple times, then not show up for a few weeks. It seems pretty intermittent. I would definitely do the work yourself. O2 sensors are 1/3-1/2 price on amazon compared to a shop, and the work is pretty easy.

Not sure if this will work on a 4runner, but I would guess it will...

On a Subaru forester, you can add two spark plug anti-foulers between the rear o2 sensor and the pipe. This essentially cuts the o2 sensor off from the pipe and makes it think the readings it's getting are good. It won't stop a code if it's something besides the rear sensor, and it doesn't fix the sensor, but it's about $6 to keep the CEL off if that is the cause.

Google forester o2 antifouler fix for more info. I would imagine it works the same on a t4r....

This is an interesting option. I have heard of using these to prevent build-up on the O2 sensor to try to extend life (not sure I believe the argument), but if it worked, that would certainly be cheaper than the simulator.

There is this alternative, if legality and the environment are not your highest priorities.

Rear Sensor Simulator - Underdog Racing Development

Yup, that's the link the what I was talking about. It may be super overpriced, but compared to the price of new O2 sensors, it could quickly pay itself off, though technically illegal for on the road use.
 
Last edited:
i got the code and kept resetting it. Every 100 or so miles it woudl come back on. Last week I did the deckplate mod and ISR mod. Looks at my MAF, and the dark red needle was covered in dirt and gunk. I got some MAF cleaner and cleaned it VERY thoroughly. It's been 1000 miles (went on a roadtrip this past week) and the CEL hasn't come on.

I know it's a code referring to cats or the o2 sensor, but i'm guessing all of the emission stuff works in unison. It's worth a shot
 
Just posting my experience in troubleshooting PO420 (Cat Inefficiency code), from start to finish, and common obstacles along the way. I have a 1999 3.4l 4Runner with 137k:

It started with PO172. I cleaned the MAF with carb cleaner, chased that with rubbing alcohol. Then I cleared the code, and it never came back. Acceleration was noticeably more responsive and powerful.

50 - 100 miles later I get a check engine light CEL, but now the code is PO420. After researching this here and on other forums, I decided to troubleshoot from least to most expensive $, resetting the CEL after each step. General idea is get everything running as "clean" as possible.
1) Change air filter, oil and oil filter (duh). Reset CEL. CEL came back on after about 50 miles.
2) Change PCV valve and fuel filter, ran some Lucas injector cleaner thru the fuel system. Reset CEL. CEL came back on after about 50 miles.
3) Next step is replacing the sensor(s), and this is what solves the problem in most cases in my research. Replacement cats are typically not necessary.

Replacing the AFR and Oxygen Sensors
From what I can tell, most if not all '99 and later 4runners are California emissions vehicles, regardless of whether they're from or have even been to Cali (yeah I said "Cali", who cares?) So there are 2 cats and 2 sensors. It should be obvious from that, but you can double-check by reading the specs directly under the hood. Also, the dealership can tell you based on VIN.

From front to back, the 1st sensor is the Air/Fuel Sensor. It is on the bend before the 1st cat. The 2nd is the o2 sensor. It is after the 2nd cat. You need to buy sensors from the dealership, or Denso. Don't use Bosch. Best bet is Denso sensors from Amazon.

DO double-check to make sure you are getting the right sensor(s) for your vehicle. Never modify the wrong sensor to make the connection fit, etc. First call your Toyota dealership for the Toyota part number, they will check by VIN (their prices are 2-3x what you'll pay for Denso on Amazon). Then cross-reference that with Denso here: DENSO Aftermarket Cross Reference Online Catalog Also check here: Oxygen / AFR Sensors - Underdog Racing Development

Also buy replacement nuts (M8 x 1.25), washers, and maybe some M8 x 1.25 15mm long bolts, because there is a chance your studs will break. Also, make sure you have some anti-seize on hand.

When you're ready to replace the sensors, start out by saturating the old sensor nuts with PB Blaster, tap the studs to help work the PB thru the threads. Let it soak, and repeat a few times, for at least a few hours, or a couple days if possible. The original nuts are 12mm sockets I believe, but they're probably so rusted, you'll need small sockets, or a variety of pliers and vice grips to get them off. Careful with vice grips, that's how I broke a stud.

If you don't break a stud, follow the instructions for installing the sensors that come in the box. Apply a good amount anti-seize to the stud, put on the new washers and nuts, tight but not overtight (it's only a sensor, and again, you don't want to break a stud), cover the nuts again with anti-seize. Reset your CEL, and you should be good.

If you do break a stud, if you're relatively lucky like I was, enough of the stud will be exposed for you to unscrew from the bung using vice-grips. This is a strong man challenge. After two days of working at it with vice grips and PB blaster, the sucker turned!!
:girl:
I ended up getting it with needle nose vice grips (down in the plier where they mouth opens a little wider, if that makes sense), with a standard set of vice grips gripping the needle nose vice grips even tighter on the stud to keep them from spinning on the threads. Warning: Make sure you wear eye protection; your tools could break doing this. Then with all your strength clamp those suckers on and start turning. I'm a pretty strong dude, and this was hard, but I eventually got. Replace the broken stud with an M8 x 1.25 bolt, anti-seize the crap out of it.

If you break a stud but can't get it with vice grips, you might be lucky enough to access with a drill and easy extractor kit, or maybe you can tap it out and use a slightly larger size bolt. Otherwise you will have to drop out that section of the exhaust. I have no experience to report on that (thankfully), good luck if that's where you land.

That's all I got, hopefully this helps somebody out.
 
well put cjsks...

JRBarlow...got the same CEL on my 01. Replaced the O2 sensors, CEL went away and that was around 8,000 miles ago. O2 sensors did it for me...knock on wood. I assume if my cats were bad, my CEL would have come back on a long time ago. good luck mate.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,315
Messages
3,554,104
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top