Lower Control Arm Cam - What am I missing??

[Jetboy]

I've been messing with my front suspension. Tired of getting marginal alignment at the shops. If they aren't removing the skid plate they can't be adjusting the front cams. So I figure I'd do my own. I worked out the math but it's really long to write here. Basically you can calculate the x,y location with a combination of geometry of a circle and some triangles. I made some turn plates on my CNC. Made a nice wheel measurement bracket. BUT... the front cams on both sides are frozen.

So... what's the deal with them? There has to be something I'm missing here. I can loosen the cam through bolt, but I can't get any movement of the bushing and I can't turn the cams. The fronts are different from the rear, but pretty similar. The rear cams are no problem. They work as expected. I can actually get pretty close with just the rear cams, but I can't get the cross caster right with both sides having camber in spec.

Any ideas? Am I missing something obvious that I need to do?

Thanks!

 

[DEF4Runner]

I'm a 4th Gen owner who picked up this thread on the 'recent threads' box on the right side of your screen....

Are your cams seized? I'm not sure where you live, but the 4th Gens are notorious for seized LCAs after a number of years and depending on where you live and the year of your rig (i.e. north east), that 'might' be the issue.

I had to recruit industrial power tools to remove my LCAs after 8 years on my 2008. I replaced them with OEM LCAs but packed them with as much anti-seize as I could upon reassembly.

I take my 4R to my local Toy dealer (a rare occurrence of trust) for alignments. When I do, I make sure to remove my front skid plate so there's no excuses to NOT adjust the front cams.

Hope that helps....

 

[honda250xtitan]

x2^^^^ could be seized.

 

[Jetboy]

They could be seized. I can actually move them both just a little bit back and forth, but less than 1mm from where they start. It feels like I'm torqueing against the rubber bushing somehow or something. I can wiggle them on both sides of the bushing. But no motion at all. Maybe they're seized into the bushing? Is that what you're describing?

I'm putting probably 200 ft lbs of torque on them. It only has 35k miles on it. Shouldn't be seized up yet, although I did have to cut my coilovers out because the bolts were seized so badly there wasn't any other way to get them apart.

 

[wfo9]

seized...super common problem. Front usually more than the rear. Take weight off to make sure/attempt to get them moving.

 

[MyanRagahis]

If they aren't removing the skid plate they can't be adjusting the front cams.

I thought about cutting off a small portion of the side corners of the skid plate just so shops could adjust those bolts or at least make it easier to. I just took it off prior though.

I also thought about cutting it at the time because I kept playing around with lift heights and having to loosen both LCA bolts to take my shock off multiple times.

 

[comtn4x4]

They could be seized. I can actually move them both just a little bit back and forth, but less than 1mm from where they start. It feels like I'm torqueing against the rubber bushing somehow or something. I can wiggle them on both sides of the bushing. But no motion at all. Maybe they're seized into the bushing? Is that what you're describing?

I'm putting probably 200 ft lbs of torque on them. It only has 35k miles on it. Shouldn't be seized up yet, although I did have to cut my coilovers out because the bolts were seized so badly there wasn't any other way to get them apart.

Mine seized at 38,000 so it is possible. Look for the Moog OEM replacement arms, supposedly they resolve this issue. I couldn't locate any when I needed to do mine so ended up with OEM which are in very short supply also.

 

[wfo9]

Put wheels in the air just to verify... Turn plates really need to float.. not just turn. Most likely seized.

BTW, most aftermarket skid plates should allow alignment without removal. Can't remember stock... No reason to cover that area....

 

[Jetboy]

Thanks. I did it with the tires off the ground on both sides. I had a thought that maybe the steering was causing part of the binding, so I lifted both sides just to make sure if it wanted to move the steering rack it wouldn't bind on the other side.

Sounds like they're seized. Kinda frustrating with so little miles. My 3rd gen never seized in two decades of the same conditions. Now both sides are seized in a few years.

They're not expensive - but I did buy Toyota Care Platinum... maybe they'll replace them. If the warranty covers ball joints and shocks, why not a-arm bushings? And IMO it is a manufacturer failure on material properties if it seizes like this. Probably a Mitsubishi supplied metal... I'll probably just order a set from Toyota if it's not too much of a nightmare to remove them.

As for the skid plate - it's the TRD Pro skid. It is physically possible to access the cam bolts with an open end wrench without removing. But I wasn't able to loosen them without an impact on the end, so the plate had to come off. It's only 4 bolts and takes about 30 seconds. Only 3 bolts on mine - I found out when I removed it that one of the bolts was totally missing the weld-nut inside the front crossmember. It's probably been gone since my last oil change, but the skid spacer has a little bolt retainer clip, so the bolt its self didn't fall out. Seems like a common issue on these is losing the weld nuts because of poor penetration in the welds holding them in place. This is the 3rd one on this 4runenr that's gone missing.

 

[Agent_Outside]

Put wheels in the air just to verify... Turn plates really need to float.. not just turn. Most likely seized.

BTW, most aftermarket skid plates should allow alignment without removal. Can't remember stock... No reason to cover that area....

I align my truck every 5K when I rotated tires. Stock skids you can fit a wrench but a socket with breaker bar or ratchet has some interference.

 

[samwhich]

Just installed a lift yesterday, trucks in the shop now getting aligned. I purposely left off the skid plate hoping it would result in a better alignment. I guess we will see once they had me the printout!

 

[gundrted+t4r]

I align my truck every 5K when I rotated tires. Stock skids you can fit a wrench but a socket with breaker bar or ratchet has some interference.

I know our roads here in CO suck, but an alignment every 5k seems overkill.

When you get the print out, how much adjustment are the techs putting in?

 

[Agent_Outside]

I know our roads here in CO suck, but an alignment every 5k seems overkill.

When you get the print out, how much adjustment are the techs putting in?

It’s not overkill because it’s free and I do it myself. It’s very minimal adjustments but all it costs is half an hour of my time it’s worth it.

 

[TEujunga]

It’s not overkill because it’s free and I do it myself. It’s very minimal adjustments but all it costs is half an hour of my time it’s worth it.

Of course it's presumed that anyone who's not a total loser has a full hydraulic lift and a Hunter HawkEye Elite alignment system in their personal garage.

 

[jrandom]

It only has 35k miles on it. Shouldn't be seized up yet, although I did have to cut my coilovers out because the bolts were seized so badly there wasn't any other way to get them apart.

Dude I pulled mine out when I added my coilovers, that was at 8k, the bolts were already beginning to rust, cleaned and coated everything but the threads with marine grade anti-seize. I am due to pull my shocks next summer... lol I will let you know how it goes