Mileage and fluid exchange question.

[AudiQU4TTRO]

Hello there,
Quick question for you more experienced 4Runner'ers.

Couldn't really find much info on it.

I picked up a 4th gen V8 Sport 4x4 with 180k (now) a couple of months ago and I dig it so far. I have slowly gone through and done maintenance work. T Belt, water pump, and all that were done within the first week. The PO did not do anything besides oil changes from Walmart. The brake fluid was black, and the power steering fluid was black, no interior lights worked and only the headlights work. Long story short, wasn't well taken care of.

With the rig having 180k, would it be a bad idea to drain and fill the tranny with a filter change? What about the diff fluid? I don't want to mess anything up by changing the fluid out and causing issues that were not there prior.

Thanks for the help.

 

[AuSeeker]

Hello there,
Quick question for you more experienced 4Runner'ers.

Couldn't really find much info on it.

I picked up a 4th gen V8 Sport 4x4 with 180k (now) a couple of months ago and I dig it so far. I have slowly gone through and done maintenance work. T Belt, water pump, and all that were done within the first week. The PO did not do anything besides oil changes from Walmart. The brake fluid was black, and the power steering fluid was black, no interior lights worked and only the headlights work. Long story short, wasn't well taken care of.

With the rig having 180k, would it be a bad idea to drain and fill the tranny with a filter change? What about the diff fluid? I don't want to mess anything up by changing the fluid out and causing issues that were not there prior.

Thanks for the help.

You'll get 3 different opinions on this subject...but you haven't said what year it is, I say this because the 2003 V8 doesn't have the sealed transmission and has a dipstick which to check the fluid level and where you refill/add fluid, all other years have the sealed transmission and you have to check the fluid level via a plug on the pan and refill/add fluid via the refill plug on the passenger's side of the transmission.

1. Do a complete fluid exchange, not a pressurized flush but just exchange the fluid via the transmission line at the radiator and fill using the fill plug, get the transmission to the correct temperature and then check the fluid level via the fluid level plug or the dipstick depending on model year, should take around 12 to 14 quarts of fluid, many on the forum have done this and have had no issues, just better shifting and no more "shudder" if that was a issue before the exchange.

2. Do a "Drain and fill", drain the fluid out of the pan and refill to the proper level as in the #1 option, should only be around 3+/- quarts, drive it a couple of months and repeat, then drive it another couple of months, etc., repeat this until you've done it around 5 to 6 time or the fluid looks more or less like new fluid.

3. Don't do anything other than make sure the fluid level is correct.

Option 2 and especially 3 or because of the old school recommendation of not changing fluid that has never been changed in high mileage transmissions because it will loosen sludge in the transmission and clog passageways causing the transmission to fail, this was true in the past, but fluids have come a long way since the 1970 to 1990s and don't produce the same sludge and old school fluids did.

That all being said I'm in the option #1 group, I have been doing mechanic work for over 50 years and I haven't seen the "sludge" issue causing problems when changing fluid in high mileage transmissions in vehicles made in the last 15 or more years using more modern fluid formulas, you can find how the do a complete fluid exchange in several topic on the forum that will walking you through the process, there's also topics on just doing a drain and fill.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

I agree, I would probably lean towards swapping out the transmission fluid. If it was used for towing or off-roading going to put more stress on the transmission and so even though Toyota doesnt include it as part of routine maintenance, not a bad idea

Yes - replace diff fluids.

Youll probably want to get around to checking the AC system

Put some WD40 on the gas door hinge, Drop the spare tire and WD40 the tire winch

 

[SurferUK]

Hello there,
Quick question for you more experienced 4Runner'ers.

Couldn't really find much info on it.

I picked up a 4th gen V8 Sport 4x4 with 180k (now) a couple of months ago and I dig it so far. I have slowly gone through and done maintenance work. T Belt, water pump, and all that were done within the first week. The PO did not do anything besides oil changes from Walmart. The brake fluid was black, and the power steering fluid was black, no interior lights worked and only the headlights work. Long story short, wasn't well taken care of.

With the rig having 180k, would it be a bad idea to drain and fill the tranny with a filter change? What about the diff fluid? I don't want to mess anything up by changing the fluid out and causing issues that were not there prior.

Thanks for the help.

I would change every fluid...coolant, ATF, diffs, transfer box, etc.

Just as an 'outsider' looking in (Autos not so common here historically) the myth of not changing ATF on an old transmission never made any sense to me. It's pretty obvious those story are based on someone with a 99% ruined neglected transmission doing a Hail Mary ATF change, and then the transmission finally dies.

It's as logical as saying don't change your engine oil if you miss a service...

 

[AudiQU4TTRO]

You'll get 3 different opinions on this subject...but you haven't said what year it is, I say this because the 2003 V8 doesn't have the sealed transmission and has a dipstick which to check the fluid level and where you refill/add fluid, all other years have the sealed transmission and you have to check the fluid level via a plug on the pan and refill/add fluid via the refill plug on the passenger's side of the transmission.

1. Do a complete fluid exchange, not a pressurized flush but just exchange the fluid via the transmission line at the radiator and fill using the fill plug, get the transmission to the correct temperature and then check the fluid level via the fluid level plug or the dipstick depending on model year, should take around 12 to 14 quarts of fluid, many on the forum have done this and have had no issues, just better shifting and no more "shudder" if that was a issue before the exchange.

2. Do a "Drain and fill", drain the fluid out of the pan and refill to the proper level as in the #1 option, should only be around 3+/- quarts, drive it a couple of months and repeat, then drive it another couple of months, etc., repeat this until you've done it around 5 to 6 time or the fluid looks more or less like new fluid.

3. Don't do anything other than make sure the fluid level is correct.

Option 2 and especially 3 or because of the old school recommendation of not changing fluid that has never been changed in high mileage transmissions because it will loosen sludge in the transmission and clog passageways causing the transmission to fail, this was true in the past, but fluids have come a long way since the 1970 to 1990s and don't produce the same sludge and old school fluids did.

That all being said I'm in the option #1 group, I have been doing mechanic work for over 50 years and I haven't seen the "sludge" issue causing problems when changing fluid in high mileage transmissions in vehicles made in the last 15 or more years using more modern fluid formulas, you can find how the do a complete fluid exchange in several topic on the forum that will walking you through the process, there's also topics on just doing a drain and fill.

Sorry. I forgot there was the change earlier on. It’s a 2006.

For me it’s not as much sludge as is it is the myth that new fluid with different additives may cause trouble to the seals and start to leak.

I was thinking the first time would be a drain and fill and then in like six months do a complete fluid exchange via the oil cooler.

 

[octanejunkie]

I did a series of drain and fills every few months on my 3rd Gen until completely replacing the ATF using the transmission's pump. IIRC it was over 250k.

I opened the outlet on my external cooler and plugged the hose. You can do the same from the radiator's trans cooler outlet.
I put a clear drain hose into a graduated bucket and measured the fluid pumped out, pouring the same amount back in. My buddy started and stopped the car and I managed the fluids. We pumped out and poured 14 quarts in, basically till it looked new coming out.

Nothing bad happened.

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[AuSeeker]

Sorry. I forgot there was the change earlier on. It’s a 2006.

For me it’s not as much sludge as is it is the myth that new fluid with different additives may cause trouble to the seals and start to leak.

I was thinking the first time would be a drain and fill and then in like six months do a complete fluid exchange via the oil cooler.

Your transmission should have Toyota WS fluid in it so if that's what you put back in it the additives will be the same as what it's always had in it.

Even members here who used a aftermarket brand that was a WS "approved" fluid have had no issues to my knowledge.

 

[Kryptoroxx]

Sorry. I forgot there was the change earlier on. It’s a 2006.



For me it’s not as much sludge as is it is the myth that new fluid with different additives may cause trouble to the seals and start to leak.



I was thinking the first time would be a drain and fill and then in like six months do a complete fluid exchange via the oil cooler.

Swap the fluid.

I just did mine yesterday. Really a simple process once you get the fluid. I stuck with the yota ws stuff however there are those that swear by x.

If you have an external cooler it's even easier. I hooked up those lines in front of my truck and only had to slide under to check the fluid level at the end.

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[Bluesky 07]

My advice is essentially what [MENTION=306000]Syr4RinNC[/MENTION] said but I use Fluid Film on hinges & the spare tire hoist. Also, be aware that 4th Gen 4Rs use ATF in the power steering reservoir, not power steering fluid (but not WS - strange). I recall being surprised to learn that when I bought my ‘07 in 2014.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

You can do a few drain and fills and be fine or do a flush via the cooler lines like many have done. Either way you do it should be fine, just make sure you use an appropriate fluid (either Genuine Toyota WS, or do some research on what aftermarket stuff people have been running without issue, we're currently using Idemitsu LS-LV ATF ATF Type TLS-LV | Idemitsu Lubricants without issue so far due to supply shortages).

If it really has been rather neglected then it may not be a bad idea to drop the transmission fluid pan and clean out the pick-up screen (or replace it with a new quality one if it's really bad, though I have had good luck just cleaning them out most of the time) and get any grime off the inside of the pan (don't forget to put the magnets back where you found them!) before flushing it. Will give you a better starting point and better results for your efforts.

If the vehicle is shifting fine and isn't really exhibiting any transmission related issues, I don't see the harm in flushing out the fluid. The reality is that yes, technically speaking; the dirty fluid has more "grip" to it because of the suspended friction material and steel wear. But that's not the only factor that a transmission needs to operate, there's also a needed amount of slip, thermal protection, cleaning properties, and general lubrication. All of this is provided by the formulation of the ATF and it's additive packages.

The whole "loosening gunk and causing a transmission to fail" logic of never changing fluid is probably rooted in older vehicle technology like much of the car mythology that still gets passed around these days.

IF your transmission (or engine for that matter) has significant enough deposits in it that it can clog up the pick-up screen and/or gum up things, then you're transmission is likely already dying/dead and just hasn't realized it yet (think chicken with it's head cut off). It doesn't matter that "it's running fine now," such significant deposits/debris indicates that significant wear and clearances exist in the transmission and there's no fixing that without a tear-down/rebuild. You might be able to prolong that ticking time-bomb; but the reality is that anything could dislodge those deposits/gunk from a good speed bump to a nice long road trip that keeps the fluid toasty and flowing.

Long story short, it's "lifetime" fluid only in the sense that it'll survive as long as the transmission does; so I would strongly recommend 50-60k service intervals after you do your transmission fluid service (it may not even be a bad idea to do one or two 20-30k services after your first one to try and clean up the residual fluid and gunk as best as possible before settling into your "normal" maintenance routine).

 

[Kryptoroxx]

My advice is essentially what [MENTION=306000]Syr4RinNC[/MENTION] said but I use Fluid Film on hinges & the spare tire hoist. Also, be aware that 4th Gen 4Rs use ATF in the power steering reservoir, not power steering fluid (but not WS - strange). I recall being surprised to learn that when I bought my ‘07 in 2014.

Lol I had 2 quarts left from my transmission and thought it was perfect......till I looked it up.

Oh well. I'll do it with the diffs and transfer case. Amsoil going in those though.

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