More dreaded front end shimmy

[Redsoxx1918]

Yea the dreaded front end shimmy. I had a bad one that took me about 6 months to figure out.

Mine drove great until I changed from my 285/70 Nitto Trail Grapps on the factory TRD wheels to 285/75R17 Trail Grapps on Method 305s and then around 45-60mph the wheel shake and pedal vibration would start.

Things that you need to check:

1. Wheel balance (you have done that) but make sure they didn't find that your tires showed excessive road force bc if they do, they are trash and will need to be replaced more than likely. It could be they were out of balance and became out of round or they could have just been out of round from the start.

2. Alignment (everything needs to be in spec). Make sure they aren't just doing tie rod adjustment and calling it good.

3. Everything should be torqued to the proper spec (not just "tight" if you are chasing vibrations)

4. Check you wheel bearings. Jack the wheel up off the ground and push at the 12 or 6 position and if you get any movement, it is a bad bearing. (3-9 movement is tie rod but that shouldnt have anything to do with it)
Toyota 4Runner w/ trashed wheel bearing assembly (12-6 movement) Vibrations ?/ braking problems ? - YouTube
It is about $150 for a koyo bearing and Dorman hub or if you want all OEM you can get one for $399. If you want to press the hub into the bearing yourself you can get it for about $90 and use your old hub.

5. Rarely, water can get in the tires from condensation formed in the compressor tank and that could cause it to feel like it is wandering especially during acceleration.

I eventually got it taken care of but it about drove me crazy trying to get it figured out.

Thanks for all the tips. Going back in tomorrow to let them work on it again. I'm gonna see if they will balance the tires again and perform an alignment. It's covered for the first 12k miles. If that still doesn't fix it, I guess I'll check the bearings. I'm thinking it's just bad tires.


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[Redsoxx1918]

Update.....brought the 4Runner in again yesterday. Got the usual look like I was crazy....then the story how it's a "truck" with all terrain tires and front end shake is normal. Right. Sure. Anyway.....they called me later and said it was all set. They said the tires were out of balance. Apparently they only did a high speed balance last week and this time they performed a proper road force balance. So far, the issue seems to be resolved. No more front end shimmy.


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[ChiliBean]

I found a reputable shop that regularly does lifts and wheel/tire combos for jeeps etc.
they got it right for me.
2 other shops told me it was either bad wheel or bad tire and they couldn’t help me out.

SCS wheels/BF Goodrich AT for reference

Forget the dealer. They’ll just give you the runaround

 

[kenwilliams0803]

I found a reputable shop that regularly does lifts and wheel/tire combos for jeeps etc.

they got it right for me.

2 other shops told me it was either bad wheel or bad tire and they couldn’t help me out.



SCS wheels/BF Goodrich AT for reference



Forget the dealer. They’ll just give you the runaround

That's funny. In my case, the dealer is the ONLY one around here who can get it right.

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[Vardeeg]

1) Road force balance the tires, or consider throwing balance beads in the tires. Better tires always helps here too.

If you let the shimmy shake go too long, you end up with wear on front end steering and suspension components.

2) New inner and outer tie rods.

3) New upper and lower control arm bushings, preferably urethane.

4) New upper and lower ball joints.

5) East Coast Gear bushing replacing the needle bearing in the front differential.

Can't say which solved my issue as I in that order, but collectively it got it done. If you can't deal with it, sell the vehicle as a known lemon at a steep discount to someone who can deal with it.

Gotta say, I've been tracking this shimmy issue across multiple different 4runner forums and toyota groups since I bought my 4runner from the dealer brand new in 2016, and the ECGS Needle bearing replacement is the one thing I've seen work wonders for people across the board. Lifted or not, aftermarket wheels or not, aftermarket tires or not, seems like the needle bearing replacement has been the most impactful. More people gotta be talking about this. I've honestly given up, and IF I end up re-gearing I'll definitely be doing the needle bearing, but as it stands, I just don't let the car cruise around 60-65 MPH haha. (Something about out of sight, out of mind)

Poke around the Taco forums and people are complaining about the same thing, with the same sort of troubleshooting process. Most people seem to give up by the time they get to the needle bearing, as they've probably already been convinced to check their wheels, tires, tie-rods, alignment, brake rotors, etc. The ones I've seen go in and replace the needle bearing seem to be reporting the best results, regardless of other mods.

 

[fkheath]

Gotta say, I've been tracking this shimmy issue across multiple different 4runner forums and toyota groups since I bought my 4runner from the dealer brand new in 2016, and the ECGS Needle bearing replacement is the one thing I've seen work wonders for people across the board. Lifted or not, aftermarket wheels or not, aftermarket tires or not, seems like the needle bearing replacement has been the most impactful.

FYI: Here is the info on the needle bearing issue: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154805-9999.pdf

 

[Vardeeg]

FYI: Here is the info on the needle bearing issue: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154805-9999.pdf

Blows my mind, that Toyota's solution is to just replace the entire diff and assembly. Wouldn't that also mean you'd potentially have that issue AGAIN after having already replaced the diff with an identical unit?

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Gotta say, I've been tracking this shimmy issue across multiple different 4runner forums and toyota groups since I bought my 4runner from the dealer brand new in 2016, and the ECGS Needle bearing replacement is the one thing I've seen work wonders for people across the board. Lifted or not, aftermarket wheels or not, aftermarket tires or not, seems like the needle bearing replacement has been the most impactful. More people gotta be talking about this. I've honestly given up, and IF I end up re-gearing I'll definitely be doing the needle bearing, but as it stands, I just don't let the car cruise around 60-65 MPH haha. (Something about out of sight, out of mind)

Poke around the Taco forums and people are complaining about the same thing, with the same sort of troubleshooting process. Most people seem to give up by the time they get to the needle bearing, as they've probably already been convinced to check their wheels, tires, tie-rods, alignment, brake rotors, etc. The ones I've seen go in and replace the needle bearing seem to be reporting the best results, regardless of other mods.

Gotta say, nevagiveup! I'm not a mechanic by profession (work for the Federal Reserve as a Credit Risk Specialist), but there are few things I can't do on a vehicle and that simply from determination and the fact that I know I can do it better than 98% of the techs at a dealership. The important thing here is to think it through as opposed to just throw parts at it. There's a whole lot of interrelated things impacting this issue and it grows worse and broader the longer it is allowed to continue. Thus I refuse to accept and continue to work at solutions for it and any other issues on vehicles.

Currently dealing with a persisent oil leak on my 2005 Honda Accord with 2.4 liter engine. First it was the VTEC solenoid. Replaced VTEC seal and Valve cover gasket, but still leaking. Replaced with new VTEC solenoid, leak reduced but still there. Read up some more and my symptoms indicated PCV valve clogged or not functioning properly. They recommend replacing PCV valve every 50K miles and mine was original at 157K. $10 part, so I replaced and the leak was further reduced. Did a complete clean of the engine with degreaser and pressure washer. This revealed that VTEC solenoid no up leaking, but up above was a small dribble coming from the rear corner of the valve cover. Bad PCV valve probably induced the leak there. So, new valve cover gasket set on the way. Hopefully that with some Honda Bond gets the rest of it. Nevagiveup.

 

[djeepin]

The front end shake is back and still pretty bad after roadforce balance. I've been dealing with this BS for some many years between a. Couple of 4Runners I'm seriously considering just moving on to another vehicle.
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On my first 4Runner ten years ago I started to experience those problems after first visit to dealership, when they rotate tires. many visits to different shops, balancing, alignments, newer got rid of shaking. On third set of rotors after eight years, finally bought dial gauge with magnetic base. aluminum wheels bended. all four. Dealership using air gun first, and after all lug nuts in, they use torque limiter, just to follow the book. Buy dial gauge and check all yourself. Now dealership asking: "why don't you want tire rotate? it's free." free - huh?

 

[934x4]

I often had this problem, sometimes worse than others. It bothered me that it would come and go without any real reason. It disappeared for good when I moved the wheels, front to back on each side. It was the easiest solution and it worked. I don't know why, I just got lucky and it hasn't come back since.

 

[bdbull]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm dealing with a shake on my 2011 SR5 as well. How does it shake or shimmy? Mine actually shakes the steering wheel pretty bad, and I'm trying to figure out if I have the same issue as you guys.

I went in for an alignment today hoping that it was just badly out of alignment. They told me the shake was because the wheel spacers that are on the vehicle don't have enough threads to hold onto on the hub. I took the spacers off today and it seemed better at first, but I just had to go a little faster for the shake to start again. Thinking I may go back on Monday and let them know I took the spacers off but the shake is still there, just at a higher speed, and see if they will do the alignment.

FYI, here's a video of the terrible shake of the steering wheel on the way to the shop this morning. This is before the wheel spacers were removed. Imgur: The magic of the Internet

NOTE: Please don't turn this into a debate on wheel spacers. They were there when we bought it and we liked the look. I have taken the spacers off as of today and will troubleshoot this issue further before (if) I put the spacers back on with longer wheel studs installed.

EDIT: They also told me that the lift the previous owners put on has all the frontend suspension screwed up and I need new upper and lower control arms, sway bar links, struts, and also ball joint extenders.

 

[kenwilliams0803]

Aww that's just a little Itty bitty shake. When mines that good I'll usually just take it. I have videos somewhere that would make you laugh on what I used to deal with.

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[bdbull]

Aww that's just a little Itty bitty shake. When mines that good I'll usually just take it. I have videos somewhere that would make you laugh on what I used to deal with.

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Are you serious? Man I hope you're joking.

 

[02SE]

The first thing is to determine if there are any worn steering and/or suspension components. If there are, replace them.

If it has been out of balance long enough, the tire tread could be worn unevenly, causing/contributing to the vibration. Or they could just have poor uniformity, and need to be replaced.

As long as the steering and suspension is good, it pretty much comes down to the tires and/or the balance job.

Find a competent shop which can fix it.

 

[bdbull]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm dealing with a shake on my 2011 SR5 as well. How does it shake or shimmy? Mine actually shakes the steering wheel pretty bad, and I'm trying to figure out if I have the same issue as you guys.

I went in for an alignment today hoping that it was just badly out of alignment. They told me the shake was because the wheel spacers that are on the vehicle don't have enough threads to hold onto on the hub. I took the spacers off today and it seemed better at first, but I just had to go a little faster for the shake to start again. Thinking I may go back on Monday and let them know I took the spacers off but the shake is still there, just at a higher speed, and see if they will do the alignment.

FYI, here's a video of the terrible shake of the steering wheel on the way to the shop this morning. This is before the wheel spacers were removed. Imgur: The magic of the Internet

NOTE: Please don't turn this into a debate on wheel spacers. They were there when we bought it and we liked the look. I have taken the spacers off as of today and will troubleshoot this issue further before (if) I put the spacers back on with longer wheel studs installed.

EDIT: They also told me that the lift the previous owners put on has all the frontend suspension screwed up and I need new upper and lower control arms, sway bar links, struts, and also ball joint extenders.

Happy to report that the shake is gone. Installed new upper control arms, longer wheels studs, and put the spacers back on. My son says it's like butter now.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Happy to report that the shake is gone. Installed new upper control arms, longer wheels studs, and put the spacers back on. My son says it's like butter now.

heck yea. we've ran 1.25" spacers on the wheels for 80k miles. the shake has been on and off for the entire life of the vehicle. sometimes its cupped tires, sometimes its a bad alignment from an offroad trip, other times its a tire outta balance, one time it was from warped brakes. i'm thinking needle bearing is next lol. thankfully its a small shake and only at 60 when it has happened. (the brakes being warped was different obviously).

 

[gordonp]

And now a word about wheel-spacers:

Imagine a straight line, through your upper-ball-joint and the lower-ball-joint. This is your steering axis, and it has "inclination". You know that already.

The front-to-back inclination is caster, and some of the earliest replies here have suggested aiming for minimum 3.0 degrees of caster.

But there is also a subtle addition beyond caster:
There is a side-slope to your steering-axis, and a crucial relationship between this side-slope and your tire-contact-patch. In a perfect world, your tire contact patch would have the steering-axis "centered" and the axis just at the front of the contact-patch. This provides a small-but-necessary "lever arm" for stabilizing your steering and providing "return-to-center". For motorcycle enthusiasts, it's like "rake" and "trail".

When you add spacers, you offset the steering axis and the tire-contact-patch. Now, in broad terms, each side will "fight" the other to try to align the road-forces in a straight line from steering-axis to contact-patch. It's subtle beause the road-forces are affected by toe-in, tire-inflation, road-friction, etc. All the usual factors

But I hope you can see that by widening the stance, you may introduce a side-offset to the lever-arm. And side-to-side, these small offsets may fight each other, first one will win and straighten itself, while the other worsens... but now, that worse angle has a stronger lever and will force (whip) the other side into straighening while the first side worsens.

This is a worst-case scenario, and there are infinite shades of grey in-between, but just be aware that offsetting a tire seriously impact stability.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

The first thing is to determine if there are any worn steering and/or suspension components. If there are, replace them.

If it has been out of balance long enough, the tire tread could be worn unevenly, causing/contributing to the vibration. Or they could just have poor uniformity, and need to be replaced.

As long as the steering and suspension is good, it pretty much comes down to the tires and/or the balance job.

Find a competent shop which can fix it.

This^^^.

First off you ain’t seen shakes until the steering wheel is jerking violently in your hands. I’m talking death wobbles. We had this happen on our 2014 after constantly dealing with the minor shakes in the videos above. The death wobble was occurring during heavy breaking on warm brakes from 70 on down to 40 mph. I knew it wasn’t rotors, not with that violent of a shake. That sent me on a mission to address any slop I could find in the steering and suspension components. It was mostly in the tie rods, both inner and out. Nothing in suspension. Did install ECGS bushing because well we already had 300K on the vehicle and just assumed there was wear. We cleaned up the shakes.