My System (I need help!)

[NViejeP]

Hey, its me again asking for some more advice. I've made my decision on some but I still need help. I've got a Toyota 4Runner 2000 SR5. I am 16 and a student on a budget. Looking for the most bang for my buck. Don't need anything that will blow down a house or naything. Oh by the way I listen to almost every genre of music if that helps.

My questions:
1) Should I buy a mono amp to power my sub and connect my speakers to head unit OR should I buy a 4 channel amp to power my front components and subwoofer?
2) Which subwoofer should I get? I've heard of RE12s but on ebay they are all like $400, where can I buy one? They are very rare on ebay.
3) Which amplifer should I go with? JL is most expensive at $220, or I can get a diamodn audio with almost identical stats for $160.
4) What wiring will work for these amplifers?
5) I will be able to connect all these things together correct?

Amplifer:
-JL Audio e4300 $220 off ebay
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=253
-Diamond D3400.4 $160 off ebay
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=183

Subwoofer (I really haven't decided on anything so can you please recommend one, I dont need naything too good, I want 1 sub 12' or 10'):
-Kicker CompVR C12VR4 $100
-Resonant Engineering 12 $? (Where can I get one?)
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2450

Wiring:
-Knu Konceptz (will these fit?)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK84

-------------------Set in stone---------------------
Front Speakers (Components 6.5):
-CDT CL-61A $140 off woofersetc.com
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1090
Installation (I don't know how to install these on my own and would feel mroe comfortable with a professional):
-Speaker Crutchfield Install Card: $45
-Subwoofer Crutchfiled Install Card: $45
-Amplifer Crutchfiled Install Card: $75
Please feel free to critiscize my setup and suggest new things. I'm open.
Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[daverunner]

I think you may have trouble driving your sub with that amp with all your component speakers. I've always had a dedicated amp for the sub. You cant go wrong with jl though..If you lived a little closer than san fran...Im in alabama ...Id be happy to help with the install. The only problem I see is the sub getting enough power..other than that it sounds like a nice system. Put your main fuse as close to the battery as possible and connect the power last.

 

[Mike415]

Are you going to be using the amp to power your speakers and sub? Or just your speakers, or bridge it for just the sub? If your running it to all I would think it wouldnt be much power to a sub. I would just bridge it to a sub, and get a new deck and put the HPF on and it should be plenty of power for the speakers because their would be no bass coming from the speakers. Then it leaves you able to bridge the amp and give more power to the sub.

Maybe check out an alpine S type, I like mine, or a JL Audio sub (whatever fits your budget) The kicker I think is suppose to be decent, but I never liked how kickers looked. I would say get a different amp and get it specifically for the sub(s).

 

[NViejeP]

Damnit, now I got more options to choose from.

Should I get a 4 channel to power my sub and fronts OR

Should I get a mono to power my sub and run the speakers on my head unit?

Haha. I don't know, but thanks for the suggestions, 'll look into things.

Thanks a lot daverunner, appreciate your help. And you too mike.

 

[Mike415]

Damnit, now I got more options to choose from.

Should I get a 4 channel to power my sub and fronts OR

Should I get a mono to power my sub and run the speakers on my head unit?

Haha. I don't know, but thanks for the suggestions, 'll look into things.

Thanks a lot daverunner, appreciate your help. And you too mike.

I say definately a different amp just for your sub, a mono class D. And either a head unit for your components, im guessing you have 2 sets of speakers, if so a head unit would be fine especially if u used a high pass filter to filter out the bass from the speakers which would save a lot of power and a 200watt HU would do fine. Then just get an amp and sub with the matching power and your set. I dont see a need for an amp to the speakers.

 

[daverunner]

I know you previously posted that you dont like sony...I dont like their hu's or speakers but the sony class d amp I have drives 3 12" jl's and doesent even get warm. Lots of bang for the buck. Boston Acoustics for components, Alpine for hu, sony or jl amps. I drive alot so I jam alot, my set up is bullet proof!

 

[NViejeP]

I've updated the post. For the amplifer I've narrowed it down to 2.

Around $220 for a very good brand JL.

Or $160 for a good brand Diamond with same stats but less money.

For the subwoofer, I want a RE12.

I don't know what type of subwoofer I need tough, all this 2 ohm, 4 ohm, single coil, dual coil is confusing me...

And with Sony, I've been looking at it and I decided to jus tgo with the JL or diamond so far.

 

[Mike415]

I've updated the post. For the amplifer I've narrowed it down to 2.

Around $220 for a very good brand JL.

Or $160 for a good brand Diamond with same stats but less money.

For the subwoofer, I want a RE12.

I don't know what type of subwoofer I need tough, all this 2 ohm, 4 ohm, single coil, dual coil is confusing me...

And with Sony, I've been looking at it and I decided to jus tgo with the JL or diamond so far.

The lower the ohms, the more power, but more distortion (Barely noticable). Most Subs are a single 4ohm, some are dual 4ohms, creating a 2ohm impedance from the amp, which most amps are. About how many watts RMS do you want for your sub?

 

[NViejeP]

I've been really thinking about my system. When I get attached, I can't stop thinking about something. Haha.

But, considering I am getting a job soon. I think what I might be doing is:

Getting front components and rear speakers installed right away with the money I currently have. And then I'm going to save up a bit more because I won't have that much more money and I always want a backup source of money.

After saving up for a bit, I'll have thought about it more and then I can decide if I have the money for an all out system with a 5 channel amplifer with a sub OR if I just want a mono amp with a sub OR if I want a 4 channel.

I think I might just do this. What do you all think?

And for the power in the sub, I haven't really decided that much. I'm going to listen to my friends, see how his sound and if I want more power or less.

 

[Mike415]

Are you getting a new head unit for your components or just using the stock? When I got my head unit installed they sent it through the old amp and it sounded like shit and I brought it back and then they noticed the guy wired it through the stock amp for some reason . I wouldnt get new speakers using the old head unit.

 

[NViejeP]

Are you getting a new head unit for your components or just using the stock? When I got my head unit installed they sent it through the old amp and it sounded like shit and I brought it back and then they noticed the guy wired it through the stock amp for some reason . I wouldnt get new speakers using the old head unit.

I've already got a new head unit, JVC KD-G210. which is like 27 rms x 4 =/ Which isn't anything great. But it will do until I get an amplifer.

 

[Mike415]

I've already got a new head unit, JVC KD-G210. which is like 27 rms x 4 =/ Which isn't anything great. But it will do until I get an amplifer.

I honestly dont think you need a speaker amp, does ur HU have a HPF filter? If it does 27rms should be fine to run your speakers.

 

[NViejeP]

I honestly dont think you need a speaker amp, does ur HU have a HPF filter? If it does 27rms should be fine to run your speakers.

It doens't say that it has a HPF filter, so I doubt it.

I'm going to upgrade all my speakers first and then eventually I will choose.

 

[daverunner]

If you look on the JL website they have some really good tutorials on wiring, impedence and lots of other tech goodies

 

[galactic4]

How about this http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2136
for subwoofer.

This for sub amp http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2496

This for fronts http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=67
or www.cardomain.com/item/CLAAPX2120
or www.cardomain.com/item/PIOGM3200T

I would think it would be hard to beat that set up for the price. Those memphis subs are very musical. A head unit just isnt gonna cut it with componet speakers.

 

[brick privy]

your already on the right track. get the new speakers to go with your new head unit. don't worry about the high pass filter, these guys are making things complicated. when you save some money, get the subs and a four channel amp (50 w x 4 or so). bridge the amp into two channels. that way when upgrade again, you can get a new sub amp and use the 4 channel amp for your highs. you mentioned chrutchfield, they have great instruction sheets. the only way to learn this stuff is to follow the instructions and do it yourself.

 

[galactic4]

Those front speakers will not have much volume without distortion running on 17watts of head unit power. Which means blowing the speaker is a good possibility. So he will be blowing more money on more speakers. Plus why waste the money on new speakers that wont sound much better when they are not powered correctly.

Two small amps can be hidden under seats and even if you just start out with one to power your front components, it will make a world of difference, and they are under 100 bucks.

Under powering speakers is like driving a 4runner with a scion engine in it. It will work but it is not worth having. Pushing a sub with 100 watts would be like towing a boat with the scion powered 4runner. Unless the sub was EXTREMEMLY efficient. Very simple really.

 

[brick privy]

blowing speakers is'nt a matter of being under powered, it's a matter of pushing the cd player or amp into distortion. the distortion is high frequency, and the high frequencys make the speaker build up heat and fry. if he hears distortion he should turn it down of course. the point of replacing the sheakers is'nt about power it's that aftermarket speakers are made of better materials and sound clearer. don't forget about sound QUALITY. they also usually have a lower resistance than stock which gives you more power as a bonus.

besides, a watt is a lot of power. people get hung up on these power numbers. go down to radioshack and ask them to hook up a power meter to one of their stereos and turn it up to one watt. see what it sounds like. car audio speakers have a sensitivity between 85 and 95 db (with 1 watt at 1 meter distance). thats as loud as a push mower. put a push mower in the back of your 4runner and start it up. is that loud enough!? thats just one watt!!

my point was that he should build his system in stages, as money allows using the best components he can afford that will fit into the final system. thats always the cheapest way to go. why buy a small amp now only to sell it later at a loss? the speaker upgrade should do for now. you have to start somewhere. then when he gets the subs, i recomended the 4 channel amp because that way when he gets a new sub amp, he can go all out and the 4 channel amp will still fit into the final system. BTW a good 50w x 4 channel amp bridged into 2 channels should put out between 175 and 200 watts per channel. that should be enough!

 

[galactic4]

Okay all this is a little crazy. The electronics (head unit,amp, wires) actually make just as much difference in sound or more than speakers. A very easy way to support that statement is to look at all the people buying scion head units, then being happy with there stock system. In fact the better the speaker the more noticeable any imperfections will be. If you just power the front speakers with an amp and leave the rear powered by the head unit that will be perfect. Your head unit is used for music and the natural sound stage should be up front. Unless you sit with your back to the artist at a concert. Those small 2 channel amps were all around 60-80 watts, which is ample for those speakers to sound nice and have good detail. It can also easily be hidden under the seat, a four channel is massive in size in comparison. If you feel i am mistaken go to a stereo shop find there best line of speaker, then tell them you bought that speaker and are not happy with the sound. They will ask what are you powering it with, then tell you that you need an amp. 92 db sensativity does not mean that it will play a clean 92db at 1 watt. The speaker will need to sound better then the lawnmower will in your truck.

 

[brick privy]

sorry galactic4 i did'nt mean to offend. this stuff just gets me worked up a little. we just have different approaches. i prefer to figure out the final system and then work one piece at a time toward that goal. i never could afford to buy a whole system at one time but could always afford to buy stuff that did'nt work in the long run. i learned my lesson, i have two small amps sitting in the shed because i refuse to take a loss on selling them.

my vision for the system would be the typical, components in the front, coaxes in the rear, two subs, high amp, sub amp, and related wiring. you're right about the wiring being important. i left that part out but that would be the last step for me. after i had all the components bought and paid for, i would reinstall everything with all the uppolstered amp mounting boards, neon lights, new wiring on display, etc.. up to this point you're right the system will not be the ideal setup but it'll work, and you could work toward the goal.

you're right the 4 channel amp probably won't fit under the seat but the subs won't either. i would just mount the amp to the sub box to start with. it could even be set up to be removable if you needed to carry somthing big in the cargo area.

as far as the sound stage goes, if you run aftermarket speakers in the front and stock speakers in the rear, the sound stage should be in the front. if its not, you just use the fader on the radio to fix it. the same goes for final system, you use the gain controls on the amp to set the sound stage.

one last thing, you're absolutely right the stereo shop will definately want to sell you an amp. but i have to ask, if a speaker can't play cleanly with just one watt going to it, how's it going to sound with 60 to 80 watts beating it to death? the one watt sound is as clear as it gets.

BTW to show you what we're talking about, one watt of power passing through your body is enough to stop your heart. we're just lucky that our skin has a much higher resistance than a speaker (about 100k or more vs 4 ohms).