Mystery Oil Leak

[4Runner4Leon]

I'm seeing some seepage on the front passenger side of the oil pan (pic below). I'm guessing it's not the pan itself (fingers crossed), because the engine block above the pan is also slightly wet. So it's probably coming from above, but I can't see from where.

I've replaced the valve cover gaskets last year, and I see no leakage from them. I also replaced the dipstick o-ring. And the oil cooler looks completely dry too.

I'm wondering if it can be power steering fluid, given the location, but I can't see the bottom of the reservoir or pump. Also it seems more like engine oil than PS fluid.

I tried cleaning and monitoring, but the seepage is so small that by the time I notice it, it seems to have covered a large area uniformly.

Any ideas?

 

[LittleCaesar]

How far up the block does it run Leon?

When I see oil seepage like such I either think pan or crank seal.

 

[mtbtim]

First of all, that oil leak doesn't look that bad. There isn't even a drip forming anywhere. Like [MENTION=69868]LittleCaesar[/MENTION] eluded to, with any oil leak, you need to start from below looking and feeling for how high the sign of oil leaking goes so you can narrow down the origin. Oil and any other fluid can come down from above traveling along engine parts, frame members, etc and the accumulation you're seeing is well away from the source it's coming from. I don't know if there's enough there that you can tell what kind of oil it is, but that would certainly narrow it down for you if you can discern if it's either engine oil or ATF. Again like [MENTION=69868]LittleCaesar[/MENTION] mentioned, your crank seal is just around the corner from there and it could be dripping down onto the starter wire and traveling along it. But, I would think a crank seal leak would most likely show itself along the front side of the oil pan unless you regularly park at a slant towards the passenger side.

The power steering is a definite possibility and the o-ring that seals the reservoir to the pump is a common source of a leak. Put your hand under the reservoir and feel for wetness.

Or, it could be the fact that your oil pan is leaking. If that's the case, I'd just let it leak unless you want to spend the time pulling out your front differential so you can get your oil pan off. [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] and I actually did this job at his house in Palo Alto. I've now gotten really good at pulling front differentials working with Jordan because we also pulled it out a couple times for when he added a True Trac limited slip into his front diff but then had to pull it back out when we realized there was a problem with the CV axles fitting into the differential.

 

[brillo_76]

What leak?? That's a seep. Good rust protection. ..


The other members covered it pretty well with where to look to find your seep..



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[JZiggy]

Leon, that looks like an oil pan gasket seep to me. But I'm with Tim -- it's very minor and I'd leave it alone or wait until you have a reason to pull your front diff and address it then.
[MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] only a true friend would help pull a front diff 3 times (1st aborted attempt, successful attempt, and then regearing).

 

[repo]

I have the exact same seepage on the driver side and I can see it starting up at the left side of crank seal.

 

[meeceboy78]

I have the exact same thing going on and I took it to Toyota and they said cam or crank seals are bad. I left it alone because it was just a seep at the time but now it is dripping on the ground, so I'll need to address this pretty soon.
hope that helps.

 

[brillo_76]

I am just curious. What type of oil are you using with these engines seeping and getting worse?

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[meeceboy78]

I am just curious. What type of oil are you using with these engines seeping and getting worse?

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what would oil type have to do with seeping? seals and gasket deteriorate.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's definitely not a bad leak, more of a "controlled seepage" as Jaguar helpfully dispositioned their 70's XJ6's, but I digress.

I dug a little further; the power steering pump and reservoir, are totally dry, so it's definitely an oil leak. The block is dry higher up, so it's not valve covers. I'm a bit puzzled by oil above the gasket line, but I guess it can creep up. Here's another picture; it's right behind the AC compressor:

I'm leaning to it being the oil pan, which I have no plans to address at the moment (I read that it's a toss up between dropping the front diff or pulling the motor, none of which appeal to me at the moment after spending a quality weekend under the truck refreshing the front end):

I doubt it's the crank seal, as I replaced it within the past two years when I did the timing belt. Of course I could have screwed it up, but it seems to not be coming from that area.

Anyway, I'll just monitor it, and view it as free rust protection. If it gets worse, I'll fly Jordan out to CA to help out .

 

[brillo_76]

True. However, synthetic oil is super thin and can run out old seals. That's why I asked. Going up a grade of oil [5w to 10w]weight may stop or slow the leak until the owners have time to replace seals.



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[4Runner4Leon]

I am just curious. What type of oil are you using with these engines seeping and getting worse?

I use Mobil 1 5W-30 High Mileage oil. I've heard that synthetics may exacerbate leaks, I suppose I could switch back to dino and see if that helps.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

True. However, synthetic oil is super thin and can run out old seals. That's why I asked. Going up a grade of oil [5w to 10w]weight may stop or slow the leak until the owners have time to replace seals.

Might try that, I hate grease on my freshly painted suspension and skid plates.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

True. However, synthetic oil is super thin and can run out old seals. That's why I asked. Going up a grade of oil [5w to 10w]weight may stop or slow the leak until the owners have time to replace seals.

Pondering this a bit further though - the oil pan is the one "seal" that's actually not a seal, it's FIPG. Would that also be susceptible to the "synthetic oil is thinner" issue, since it should not dry/rot out like rubber seals?

 

[meeceboy78]

mine is only 2 years old also. i think it got installed incorrectly. it still might be worth looking at that, i think

 

[gamefreakgc]

There's dye you can put in your oil that glows under a black light. You drop it in your oil, drive it around and let it leaks for a few days/few weeks or however long it takes. Then you get a black light and presto, there's your leak. No guesswork.

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-5...SGXRX7KM38D&psc=1&refRID=DBY90G070SGXRX7KM38D

 

[brillo_76]

Pondering this a bit further though - the oil pan is the one "seal" that's actually not a seal, it's FIPG. Would that also be susceptible to the "synthetic oil is thinner" issue, since it should not dry/rot out like rubber seals?

That's a very good question. I would think yes in time. Synthetic oil is great and far superior to conventional. The FIPG would break down in time just as our seals do.


For example:


However, I put moble 1 in a 1983 toyota 4x4 in the mid 90s and the oil just ran out past the seals. I put normal oil back in and the oil stayed in the seals.

This is why I asked what type of oil. As you can try to bump the weight of the oil from 5w-30 to 10w-30 synthetic to see if the leak slows or stops.

If all it takes is running 10w -30 synthetic instead of 5w -30 synthetic and your pan stops leaking for a while. I try it as it's not going to hurt your engine any. Might save you from messing with it for a while.

That's a lot better then putting locus heavy duty oil stabilizer in your oil. As that thickens the oil too and stops most leaks. Just dont try to start your engine at 0 degrees F.

That starter will moan and your engine will be starved for oil for a few seconds. Will it do damage. Hard to say because it like to stick to engine components so dry start dosent happen. Folks go back in forth on that one and pages of it on oil forums.


I am just trying to help here.







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[LittleCaesar]

Leon, is there any way you can get a pic under the balancer?

I have seen Rtv leak around pan bolts before over time, due to the torque displaced around it, and ultimately breaking it.

Honestly, I wouldn’t sweat it unless it got worse.

 

[mtbtim]

I'm leaning to it being the oil pan, which I have no plans to address at the moment (I read that it's a toss up between dropping the front diff or pulling the motor, none of which appeal to me at the moment after spending a quality weekend under the truck refreshing the front end):

I don't know where you read it would be a toss up between pulling the motor or removing the front diff, but that person had to be smoking some quality shit. No way in hell is this even a close comparison. [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] will tell you the same. Pulling the front differential isn't that hard if you release the driver side motor mount, jack up the engine a bit and then also release the metal vacuum and breather lines on top of the diff. It literally falls out if you do those things.

If Jordan said, "Hey Timmy, come on over to help me pull my engine so I can reseal my oil pan", I'd reply, what the F*@k are you smoking? I would never pull an engine on one of these rigs to do an oil pan gasket.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

There's dye you can put in your oil that glows under a black light. You drop it in your oil, drive it around and let it leaks for a few days/few weeks or however long it takes. Then you get a black light and presto, there's your leak. No guesswork.

Good tip, thank you - I've used a similar product before to find a stubborn coolant leak, so I'm a believer. I ordered the dye, just because I am dying to know where the leak is coming from, even if I don't do anything about it.

That's a very good question. I would think yes in time. Synthetic oil is great and far superior to conventional. The FIPG would break down in time just as our seals do.
...

I am just trying to help here.

I appreciate the help!

Leon, is there any way you can get a pic under the balancer?

I have seen Rtv leak around pan bolts before over time, due to the torque displaced around it, and ultimately breaking it.

Honestly, I wouldn’t sweat it unless it got worse.

I'll have a peek there, not sure how much I can see without pulling stuff off

I don't know where you read it would be a toss up between pulling the motor or removing the front diff, but that person had to be smoking some quality shit. No way in hell is this even a close comparison. [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] will tell you the same. Pulling the front differential isn't that hard if you release the driver side motor mount, jack up the engine a bit and then also release the metal vacuum and breather lines on top of the diff. It literally falls out if you do those things.

If Jordan said, "Hey Timmy, come on over to help me pull my engine so I can reseal my oil pan", I'd reply, what the F*@k are you smoking? I would never pull an engine on one of these rigs to do an oil pan gasket.

I know, I would expect the same - I'm just going by this thread, second post - Easiest way to remove oil pan?.

Don't get me wrong, I am not pulling the motor, I just thought the discussion on that thread was interesting.