Need advice on lift spring choices

[jdm-v35]

Hello all,

So i have been doing research on different lift setups for a couple months now, even before i had my 4runner(2018 offroad premium). I would prefer to keep the oem UCA as they seem to be the most reliable option, but it looks like 2.5” is the iffy limit of needing afternarket UCA to get caster into spec.

My main goal is to firm up the suspension and maybe a slight lift while keeping things reliable.

I have decided on bilstein 5100s all around because i would rather replace than deal with rebuild downtime.

I can’t seem to find many good spring combo options that would keep it 2” front and rear while having stiffer spring rates.

I do see that toytec has the toytec/eibach springs they list as giving 1.6” front lift, but no rear springs that match.

I was looking at the OME 2884/2895e combo but the few posts i can find about them say they provide a 3” lift though they are listed as 2” lift. Doesnt seem like many people are using these newer springs, but the 884/895e seem to no longer be sold.

If the OMEs are confirmed to only provide 2” f/r lift I would go that route. If not, i would like to go the toytec eibach front springs, but need to find matching rear springs.

No matter which option, i would like to keep stock UCAs.

Currently have 285/70/17 ko2 tires. No rubbing at all, no mods necessary. I may even consider leaving it stock height if there is nothing to gain by lifting it.

It probably will get driven 5k or less/yr but used for fishing hunting and camping. Only other planned mod is shrockworks sliders for now.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Angelo]

Hello all,

So i have been doing research on different lift setups for a couple months now...

Any advice would be appreciated.

First off, thanks for reading up first, it'll get you everywhere around here.

So with height adjustable front 5100s you can pretty much choose whatever spring you want matched to your weight requirements (higher spring rates will support more weight like a winch or bumper). You'll use the front height adjustments to dictate your front lift and then just need to match the rear springs to your front setup. I know that Wheeler's Offroad offers a 1.5" lift spring that many say got them to the 2" mark (no added rear weight).

Alternatively, going with 5100s all the way around and keeping the stock springs and adding a 1" spacer (Cornfed, etc) is a tried and true combo for many.

You should definitely check out [MENTION=148378]Dobinsons Mike[/MENTION] and the thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...-4runner-suspension-options-lots-choices.html for a ton more options, and he can help you figure out specifics on those too.

Good luck.

 

[jdm-v35]

Thanks for the reply! My main concern is that most springs seem to be higher height than what I am looking to do. I dont want to aim for a 2.5” lift and end up needing to replace UCA. So going woth a 2” lift should be somewhat safe. The only bad thing is that really limits speing choices. I did see the dobinsons springs but their spring rates at that height are softer. I like the kdss sleing rates, but not sure if they would work or not.

My preference would definitely be a 2.5” front/2” rear lift, but unless i could get away with it while keeping oem uca, i dont eant to risk it.

I did see that many just keep the stock front springs and increase preload to gain height and do rear spacer or springs. But my concern with doing that is that it would be too soft. I have not found any direct conparisons with the 5100 front at 2-2.5, vs upgraded spring stiffness. If it would stiffen the oem front springs enough to feel like a 600lb spring i would go that route as well. Right now the oem suspension feels very soft(non kdss) and its like driving a boat that sways on turns at freeway speeds.

 

[3wbdriver]

I'm currently running 5100's all around with OME 885's up front to offset the weight of a bumper and winch. They gave me exactly 2" with the 5100's set at 0 lift. So I think you can be pretty sure that is what you'll get. The main OME's that I have looked at are actually 2" lift with a note that you need to add a spacer to get 3". On the rears I currently have a pair of Toytec +10% Superflex springs, but they are only giving me 0 lift due to the weight of a rear bumper and gear I carry. I have a pair of Dobinsons 2" medium weight springs in hand waiting for me to get time to do the swap. But the main point I want to make is the OME's you cited should only give you 2" lift all things considered.

I will also point out I am still running factory UCA's. I'm only at 1.5 - 2 degrees of caster but it drives fine for me.

 

[MeefZah]

Thanks for the reply! My main concern is that most springs seem to be higher height than what I am looking to do. I dont want to aim for a 2.5” lift and end up needing to replace UCA. So going woth a 2” lift should be somewhat safe. The only bad thing is that really limits speing choices. I did see the dobinsons springs but their spring rates at that height are softer. I like the kdss sleing rates, but not sure if they would work or not.

My preference would definitely be a 2.5” front/2” rear lift, but unless i could get away with it while keeping oem uca, i dont eant to risk it.

I did see that many just keep the stock front springs and increase preload to gain height and do rear spacer or springs. But my concern with doing that is that it would be too soft. I have not found any direct conparisons with the 5100 front at 2-2.5, vs upgraded spring stiffness. If it would stiffen the oem front springs enough to feel like a 600lb spring i would go that route as well. Right now the oem suspension feels very soft(non kdss) and its like driving a boat that sways on turns at freeway speeds.

You absolutely can "get away with" 2.5" front and stock UCAs. Many, many people on here (myself included) run 2.5" front and stock UCAs with no alignment issues.

 

[TeeDub21]

Look at wheelers off road. I’m running their springs on 5100’s for a 2.5/1.5 lift. While mine was “ok” with stock UCA’s I installed JBA UCA’s and had it re-aligned and it drives much nicer on the highway now.

 

[LaFJ86]

Look at wheelers off road. I’m running their springs on 5100’s for a 2.5/1.5 lift. While mine was “ok” with stock UCA’s I installed JBA UCA’s and had it re-aligned and it drives much nicer on the highway now.

I second the wheelers T1/T13 combo. I gained around 2.25"/ 1.5" and I think it rides very well with 5100s.

 

[jdm-v35]

Thanks for the advice and input. If i can get away with up to a 2.5 front lift and 2” rear lift, the ome springs are the route I will probably go along with 5100 all around. I just would rather not change to less reliable afternarket UCAs if possible.

3wb, i am not sure of the newer springs are the same as instead of 884 and 895e, they are now 2884 and 2895e. But no other members here really mention those 28xx denoted part numbers.

I still would want to make sure those 28xx spring are the same.

I do prefer the stiffer springs all around to haul gear in back when camping, as well as eliminate nose dive up front. A shrockworks front is still a consideration in the future as well.

Looks like 2-2.5/2 will be my goal. Will update one i am able to start purchasing parts.

 

[Angelo]

Thanks for the reply! My main concern is that most springs seem to be higher height than what I am looking to do. I dont want to aim for a 2.5” lift and end up needing to replace UCA. So going woth a 2” lift should be somewhat safe. The only bad thing is that really limits speing choices. I did see the dobinsons springs but their spring rates at that height are softer. I like the kdss sleing rates, but not sure if they would work or not.

My preference would definitely be a 2.5” front/2” rear lift, but unless i could get away with it while keeping oem uca, i dont eant to risk it.

I did see that many just keep the stock front springs and increase preload to gain height and do rear spacer or springs. But my concern with doing that is that it would be too soft. I have not found any direct conparisons with the 5100 front at 2-2.5, vs upgraded spring stiffness. If it would stiffen the oem front springs enough to feel like a 600lb spring i would go that route as well. Right now the oem suspension feels very soft(non kdss) and its like driving a boat that sways on turns at freeway speeds.

So, you're going to most likely be fine with whatever you end up going with, there have been a few options talked about here.

Keep in mind that pushing up the selectable height on the front 5100s works just like a spacer in regards to the fact that you will lose a little bit of your shock down-travel in trade for the higher ride height (5100s are longer than the stock shocks so you're still losing less than using a spacer on the stock shocks). Each extra click up on the 5100s also pre-loads the front spring more, which stiffens the ride.

It doesn't sound like you're having tire clearance issues or need more ride height for off-roading purposes, so the less you change the better with regard to being able to keep your OEM UCAs. The front 5100s at one of the lower settings and stock front springs, and your choice of low lift rear springs (Wheelers, Dobinsons, etc.) sounds like it'd be perfect for you.

Every truck is just a little different with regard to how much lift it'll tolerate with regard to driving feel / need for UCAs / alignment. Even if you manage to get exactly 2" of lift, you could hate the handling (likely at higher speed). What I'm saying is that to some extent if you're going to start messing with the suspension, it'd probably be helpful to be in the mindset that if you need UCAs to get the handling back to a place where you can stand it, so be it. Just spitballin. Again, good luck man.

 

[TeeDub21]

Not sure where you keep getting that aftermarket UCA’s aren’t as reliable as stock. There are some that use Moog style standard ball joints.

 

[3wbdriver]

3wb, i am not sure of the newer springs are the same as instead of 884 and 895e, they are now 2884 and 2895e. But no other members here really mention those 28xx denoted part numbers.

Some companies sell them as 28XX and some sell them as 8XX. But I'm certain they're the same springs. OME just hasn't made that many changes in the 4 years I've been a member here.

 

[Judd94]

5100s- like said previously the higher you go the stiffer the ride.

I did 5100s on my last two Tacoma’s and I didn’t like the stiffer ride, I wanted stock ride cause I don’t wanna a much stiffer ride. So I’m going with Dobinsons springs to let the springs do the lift not the shocks, that way the shocks can do their thing and let the coils do their thing. For clarification, if you do taller coils then you can still use the 5100s at stock height and it’ll ride great.
Call Mike and Dobinsons and let him fix you up.

 

[Yinzer]

Subscribed.

The direction you want to go is identical to mine. I was thinking Bilsteins set at 0 with Dobinson 300’s fronts for 2” and either 505’s or 599’s in the rear depending if I want to keep rake or level. Nice thing about this leveling set up is it’s not 100% level, still 0.5” of rake, and the rear springs are a tad stiffer so it will sink a tad less with weight and thus need less rake.

 

[Rightside Up]

I've been looking too.
I think I'm going with dobinsons 2.5" front, 1.5" in back.

 

[Omegat4r]

I am also very interested in these setups, as I am in the same boat as you. Right now I am leaning on doing Bilstein 5100 on all four corners and going 1.75" up front with a cornfed 1" spacer in the rear. I have a 2018 SR5 on TRD pro wheels on 275 BFG KO2's on stock suspension so just looking for a little more clearance and level look and being able to keep it reliable and ride close to stock.

Anybody have pictures to add of the setups they mentioned for us to use as references?

 

[jdm-v35]

thanks for all the input.

teedub - it seems like all the threads I read about good high end UCAs say they need maintenance like changing ball joints. If they were the same durable type as OEM I would change them out.

I did the same on my G35 and the joints/bushings eventually started going bad as well after about 20k miles. Changed back to OEM and they work way better.

Angelo - Thanks for your input. I am now leaning towards 2.5/1.5 lift as I have also read that the amount of rake you have can affect your caster measurements, which does make sense since you are changing vehicle angle.

As you mentioned I also am not having any clearance issues as I can fit the 285/70/17's and still have about an inch in front and behind on full turn in either direction. But the slight extra clearance would be nice when I take it into the mountains hunting and camping a few times during the summer. I would say those destinations would be an hour or so of rugged trail offroading. I do also plan to add shrockworks sliders eventually. Possibly even the front bumper.

Judd - At this point I definitely would rather let the springs do the work as well. I am not really for preloading the springs if possible. Though I do like a firm ride.

I am not new to suspension but definitely new to doing a lift. My g35 is lowered with coilovers and I am just used to a stiff ride(800lb front and 600lb rear springs)+aftermarket sways, braces, urethane bushings etc. so driving the 4runner is like driving a marshmallow right now.

I am honestly still trying to justify the lift myself as well. Seeing as 2.5"/1.5" is not much to gain, besides a stiffer ride. The tires give the most real clearance gain(though not much). I could also put that money towards buying the sliders first instead.

 

[Judd94]

Since you already have the tires on, the easy thing is if you wanna know which height you want just jack the front up however many inches you want and see what you think. Same with rear too

 

[jdm-v35]

that's a pretty good idea. hopefully my jack goes high enough! I would say that I do like the lifted look, but I am wondering if the handling is a significant improvement to justify the cost. would you say that with stiffer springs there was a lot less body roll? many of the speed limits here are pretty high. like 45-55 though the town area. and the highway to get home is 75. so taking turns at those speeds is a bit scary with a lot of lean.

edit: I think it is something I just need to do. lol. If not it will be something in the back of my mind all the time.

 

[jdm-v35]

Also, just curious if anyone has run a 700lb front spring with no added weight?

I would definitely like a firmer ride, but dont want it to be incapable offroad. I will add sliders eventually as well, but that shouldnt add too much weight.

been considering this option:

dobinsons 730lb front 2.5" spring
rear OME 895E 2" spring

with 5100's all around

thoughts?

 

[jdm-v35]

The stock ride is starting to grow on me so it makes me worry more now about going to a stiffer spring, though i bet it would handle a lot better with a lift both on and offroad.

Had my first drive through the snow the other day and it handles great. Had about 12” in street in the neighborhood. It slid a bit pushing through the snow, but traction control helped a lot. I put it in 4hi and it plowed through like nothing.

So far i love the 4runner with the KO2’s