Need suspension help/advice

[Getbusylivin]

I’m planning on removing my Xreas and putting on 5100s. It doesn’t look too hard to remove it all(utube vid tutorial). I have all components already(5100 full set, KYB mounts, bilstein B12(824s-1.5” lift for rear) and I’m trying to sort out what kind of springs to get for front and am lost. Done lots of reading and am confused on whether to go with stock springs and use a higher perch on 5100s to get desired lift OR get a longer spring(Dobs 1.75” lift-stock weight) with bottom perch on 5100s. Assume the stock rake is about 1.5-2” diff front to back, so my 1.5”(settling to about 1” I’ve read…????) rear springs I want to offset with like a 1.75” front lift. I do not want to change UCAs, etc.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!

Steve

 

[Getbusylivin]

Does anyone have any constructive input on whether to go with stock springs/5100s on say 3rd ring to get approx 1.75” lift….OR…….getting longer-than-stock(1.75” lift) Dobinsons/5100s on lowest ring? I have new rear Bilstein springs(give approx 1.5rear lift above stock) and am trying to figure out which front springs to use with my 5100 set.
Thanks for any help or advice.

Steve

 

[rdruss]

I would reach out to Crickey Mike at Dobinsons for his input.

 

[gordonp]

I am happy with all-Bilstein stuff up front. Shocks + their springs.

In the past, I've also been happy with Old Man Emu, and no-name stuff.

By "Happy" I mean Bilstein stuff gave me my desired 2" in the front, it's a bit firmer than stock and rides nicely for my taste (lots of city rough-streets from construction and pot-holes). I forget where I set the adjustable clip, but it was not at max-height.

I also opted to upgrade to JBA control arms. Firstly, I wanted to avoid any Upper Control Arm contact with the springs, and the wider JBA's (compared to stock) seem to offer this. Also, the JBAs gave me increased caster, and I'm absolutely loving the 5-deg caster my shop achieved. Drives like it should on the highway (no difference offroad).

As for "rake", it's personal. In earlier life, I was married in a '27 Model T, and had a '54 Chev pickup... consequently, I think Toyota nailed the "rake" perfectly, and my 4Runner sits nicely, whether empty or lightly-loaded. I added rear airbags for heavier loads. YMMV. For my taste and usage, I've been happy with Icon 2" rear springs, but it sounds like you may prefer somewhat less.

So, that's my constructive input. With the adjustable lower perch-clilps on the Bilsteins, you should pretty much be able to tune your front height with most any springs. The wider body of the 5100 will dictate a fatter spring, and that may (in turn) lead you to consider front upper-control-arms with more internal clearance.

Good luck! Have fun! Enjoy your 4Runner!

 

[Getbusylivin]

I am happy with all-Bilstein stuff up front. Shocks + their springs.

In the past, I've also been happy with Old Man Emu, and no-name stuff.

By "Happy" I mean Bilstein stuff gave me my desired 2" in the front, it's a bit firmer than stock and rides nicely for my taste (lots of city rough-streets from construction and pot-holes). I forget where I set the adjustable clip, but it was not at max-height.

I also opted to upgrade to JBA control arms. Firstly, I wanted to avoid any Upper Control Arm contact with the springs, and the wider JBA's (compared to stock) seem to offer this. Also, the JBAs gave me increased caster, and I'm absolutely loving the 5-deg caster my shop achieved. Drives like it should on the highway (no difference offroad).

As for "rake", it's personal. In earlier life, I was married in a '27 Model T, and had a '54 Chev pickup... consequently, I think Toyota nailed the "rake" perfectly, and my 4Runner sits nicely, whether empty or lightly-loaded. I added rear airbags for heavier loads. YMMV. For my taste and usage, I've been happy with Icon 2" rear springs, but it sounds like you may prefer somewhat less.

So, that's my constructive input. With the adjustable lower perch-clilps on the Bilsteins, you should pretty much be able to tune your front height with most any springs. The wider body of the 5100 will dictate a fatter spring, and that may (in turn) lead you to consider front upper-control-arms with more internal clearance.

Good luck! Have fun! Enjoy your 4Runner!

What Bilstein front springs did you use with your 5100s?!? I’ve looked and looked for a Bilstein front spring option to use with my 5100s, but everything I’ve found says they don’t fit or that they pair with some other Bilstein shock(6112?) only. I would love to stick with ALL Bilstein components, but haven’t found that to be a viable option. Also, I really don’t want to pay hundreds more for 2 new UCAs, thus my wanting to keep stock ones. My rear Bilstein springs I bought(824s giving approx 1.5” lift, but have read they “settle in” at about 1”) will raise rear, so I want to also raise front just a bit(maybe 1.75”). I assume stock rake is approx 2”, so my rear raise height with new Bil springs will be offset with a little higher front lift(not so much that I’d need new UCAs), but still keeping a little rake(slightly less than stock, but not level). My main question is…….should I use the adjustable ring-settings on front Bilsteins(along with stock springs) to gain desired front lift……OR…….get longer springs(Dobinsons 1.75” longer) and keep 5100s on NO LIFT ring?!?
That’s what I’m confused on and am trying to understand. Thanks for any input.

Steve

 

[gordonp]

Uh- Oh

I owe you an apology, [MENTION=664275]Getbusylivin[/MENTION]

My memory was fogged from buying / installing during COVID

It turns out I used 5100 in the rear only, and 6112 in the front. With the 6112 kit, the springs are included, so I didn't make a conscious selection (I guess ... I don't actually remember much of anything from that era). I had to dig deeply in my email-archives to find what *exactly* i did. I should have done that first, rather than shooting from the hip :-(

My deepest apologies for any confusion I may have caused

 

[NC14trail]

Possibly Some Help

I just lifted my second 5th gen. This one was a limited, so I deleted the shot xreas and went with 6112 up front with the 8/6 positions yielding 2.6" and I went with the bilstein 1" rear lift springs and 5100s. My goal was to keep the stock Limited look, just more athletic. I also hate the limited front rake and wanted to eliminate it. I believe I accomplished the goal, and the alignment (although maxed out in terms of adjustment) came out pretty close with no expected issues and it drives perfectly. If you are going with a 1.5" rear spring, to level it out you would absolutely need to push any lift to a full 3", possibly just over at which point aftermarket UCAs would be required to align it.

 

[IVD4R]

I am happy with all-Bilstein stuff up front. Shocks + their springs.

In the past, I've also been happy with Old Man Emu, and no-name stuff.

By "Happy" I mean Bilstein stuff gave me my desired 2" in the front, it's a bit firmer than stock and rides nicely for my taste (lots of city rough-streets from construction and pot-holes). I forget where I set the adjustable clip, but it was not at max-height.

I also opted to upgrade to JBA control arms. Firstly, I wanted to avoid any Upper Control Arm contact with the springs, and the wider JBA's (compared to stock) seem to offer this. Also, the JBAs gave me increased caster, and I'm absolutely loving the 5-deg caster my shop achieved. Drives like it should on the highway (no difference offroad).


As for "rake", it's personal. In earlier life, I was married in a '27 Model T, and had a '54 Chev pickup... consequently, I think Toyota nailed the "rake" perfectly, and my 4Runner sits nicely, whether empty or lightly-loaded. I added rear airbags for heavier loads. YMMV. For my taste and usage, I've been happy with Icon 2" rear springs, but it sounds like you may prefer somewhat less.

So, that's my constructive input. With the adjustable lower perch-clilps on the Bilsteins, you should pretty much be able to tune your front height with most any springs. The wider body of the 5100 will dictate a fatter spring, and that may (in turn) lead you to consider front upper-control-arms with more internal clearance.

Good luck! Have fun! Enjoy your 4Runner!

Bilstein are my go-to all day everyday

 

[Getbusylivin]

I just lifted my second 5th gen. This one was a limited, so I deleted the shot xreas and went with 6112 up front with the 8/6 positions yielding 2.6" and I went with the bilstein 1" rear lift springs and 5100s. My goal was to keep the stock Limited look, just more athletic. I also hate the limited front rake and wanted to eliminate it. I believe I accomplished the goal, and the alignment (although maxed out in terms of adjustment) came out pretty close with no expected issues and it drives perfectly. If you are going with a 1.5" rear spring, to level it out you would absolutely need to push any lift to a full 3", possibly just over at which point aftermarket UCAs would be required to align it.

Thanks for input! What front springs did you use with your 6112s(stock or aftermarket??…..longer or stock-length??)
My Bil rear springs(324s) are rated to raise it 1.5”, but I’ve read they “settle in” closer to 1”…..Don’t know if that was accurate info. I figure if I get a 1.75” lift in front, I’ll offset whatever rear lift is and raise front a little bit higher than rear lift. I understand that the stock rake of a Limited(which I have) is 2”…..Anyone confirm that? I got that approximately when I measured center hub-to-wheelwell, so I’m guessing that’s ballpark stock. UCAs are just so expensive to purchase by themselves, on top of all the shocks/coils/mounts/etc., so that’s why I don’t want to go that route. I have a full set(4) of 5100s waiting to be put in, and also have rear springs. I just need to figure out whether to use a stock spring and raise front with circlips OR keep circlip on lowest setting(no lift) and get a longer spring(Dob -300s, giving me about 1.75” lift with spring). I don’t care about stock rake, doesn’t bug me…….but with my calculations(if they’re correct) my rake will go from 2” to maybe 1.75” to 1.25” difference(lessening stock rake, but not to level), depending on true measurements of springs I use.

Steve

 

[MZ2215]

'15 Limited, did 5100's all around with the front on the top setting for a ~2.5" lift and 1" cornfed spacer in the rear, stock springs. That got it almost level, 1" or so of rake measuring wheel well to hub. That's what the pics are below, have since swapped the 1" spacer for a 1.5". Shop was able to get alignment pretty damn close to stock specs but really should do UCA's. Mine are starting to get rough after 11 years, will probably replace with JBA's or something similar this summer.

Before
<a href="https://ibb.co/174wVgH"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/MZJ3Tvq/PXL-20230818-200951663.jpg" alt="PXL-20230818-200951663" border="0" /></a>
After
<a href="https://ibb.co/RBsqmCW"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/b2CkZrn/PXL-20230819-191340479.jpg" alt="PXL-20230819-191340479" border="0" /></a>

 

[Getbusylivin]

'15 Limited, did 5100's all around with the front on the top setting for a ~2.5" lift and 1" cornfed spacer in the rear, stock springs. That got it almost level, 1" or so of rake measuring wheel well to hub. That's what the pics are below, have since swapped the 1" spacer for a 1.5". Shop was able to get alignment pretty damn close to stock specs but really should do UCA's. Mine are starting to get rough after 11 years, will probably replace with JBA's or something similar this summer.

Before

After

So you used stock toyota front springs in conjunction with your 5100s in the front(not rear)?!? Then set the circlip on top setting to get your 2.5” lift?!? That is what I’m trying to get input on……..whether or not to do it that way OR keep front 5100s on lowest(zero lift) setting along with longer springs(1.75” longer than stock) to give lift. I thought anything over about 2” lift would require new UCAs. Your 1” of rake achieved is about what I’m looking at as far as a target goal…….just gotta figure out what combo of FRONT sus to go with. Already have all 5100s , new mounts, and set of rear springs. Thanks for input!

Steve

 

[Toffees]

Does anyone have any constructive input on whether to go with stock springs/5100s on say 3rd ring to get approx 1.75” lift….OR…….getting longer-than-stock(1.75” lift) Dobinsons/5100s on lowest ring? I have new rear Bilstein springs(give approx 1.5rear lift above stock) and am trying to figure out which front springs to use with my 5100 set.
Thanks for any help or advice.

Steve

Do you need new springs to lift it that much? I would worry more about the control arms than the springs; I forget what the limit is, maybe it's 3" but if I were close to 2" I'd consider it.

I did the XREAS removal (was a full day's work to get it out) and put on Dobinsons IMS (~ 3 years ago) and kept the original springs but ended up with ~ 1" lift (I put in the minimum lift allowed per the Dobinsons install guide). So it was just a shock swap, same springs and arms, etc., only headache I had was after lifting it was really hard to reach with my existing floor jack and stands because they don't reach.

To your question, you can swap springs but if I recall correctly, that's only required when you are building out a heavier vehicle or installing long travel, neither of which you appear to be doing.

 

[MZ2215]

So you used stock toyota front springs in conjunction with your 5100s in the front(not rear)?!? Then set the circlip on top setting to get your 2.5” lift?!? That is what I’m trying to get input on……..whether or not to do it that way OR keep front 5100s on lowest(zero lift) setting along with longer springs(1.75” longer than stock) to give lift. I thought anything over about 2” lift would require new UCAs. Your 1” of rake achieved is about what I’m looking at as far as a target goal…….just gotta figure out what combo of FRONT sus to go with. Already have all 5100s , new mounts, and set of rear springs. Thanks for input!

Steve

Kept the stock toyota springs on front and back, top clip on the 5100's up front. My understanding is that using the top perch provided the lift, the springs wouldn't need to be changed unless I was adding weight or going long travel. Initially the truck rode fine but was 'darty' on the highway. Toyota dealership gave me a runaround about it being fine as it was ("all 4runners wander on the highway") and then told me the cam bolts were seized and they'd have to cut off the LCA's and install new. Took it to a different shop that was able to get the alignment almost back to factory specs in about 20 minutes, great now on the highway. You don't have to do UCA's with 2.5" but without doing them you may have issues getting the alignment where it needs to be.