need help deciding btwn 2 4th gens!!!

[YotaConvert]

Hi all,

Nooby here...1st off awesome site guys, the amount of info here is overwhelming, just the way I like it! anyway, thanks in part to this site and a few others I will be buying a 4th gen by months end:dancin: this will be our 2nd yota, we bought an 09 Matrix a few months back and it made my 06 Avalanche feel like I was driving a K car..ok not quite but you get the idea...anyway, on to my dilemma...I've narrowed my choice down to 2, an 03 sport V8,grey w/cladding, no spoiler, no undercoating, under 91km, com start, bu cam, jbl, about $22k, or an 04 sport V8, silver no cladding, undercoating, spoiler, under 83km, jbl, asking $25k but I might be able to get them to the $22k range

i like both, however I have issues with both too...
03, cladding(not sure, but not a deal breaker), the stealer tells me the guy put new brakes in and put new tires on it...the tires are the Dunlops so it makes me think he just took them off when he bought it so what was on there before he put the originals back on and what did he do with it? and the bu cam makes me wonder if he was towing with it
otherwise its in great shape and drive fine.

O4, about my only problem with this one is I drove it before it had been through the shop(actually, the same thing happened w/the 03 but the guy had already done the work) so the brakes felt bad but that was it. it wasn't filthy but it wasn't clean either, prev owner had kids. oh, and it seems to be missing the front skid plate. tires are fairly new AT'S or maybe MT's...both engines are clean and seem to run just fine but overall the 03 seemed better maintained but he could have just done a major cleaning etc before trading it when whereas the owner of the 04 just dropped it off as is...

so, with pricing not being the issue if I can get them to match, what would you guys suggest? anything info I missed? anything else I should look at before deciding? sorry for the long post but this ride has to last me a long while and i just want to make the most informed and accurate decision...many thanks in advance everyone!!!

 

[josh220]

I would have to say the one without the cladding, but they may just be my personal preference. They don't look bad with it, but I think they look nicer without it. Especially since plastic is much harder to keep looking new than paint.

With a good detail, the 04 should come out very nice.

 

[AmbideXtrous]

I would have to say the one without the cladding, but they may just be my personal preference. They don't look bad with it, but I think they look nicer without it. Especially since plastic is much harder to keep looking new than paint.

With a good detail, the 04 should come out very nice.

I would go with the cladding but then again I do quite a bit of offroading and the cladding seems to be impervious to what I put it through. If no offroading then the o4 might be better. You might ask the dealer to run it through the detail shop again.

 

[YotaConvert]

Hi Josh,

thanks for the input bud, I appreciate it! we put a deposit on the 03 but I think I'm going to take another look at the 04 tonight...I agree on the the cladding although I bought an Avalanche without it and ended up liking the ones with it better, go figure...the silver was my first choice and I prefer the dealer but the 03 seemed like a steal when we saw it...have a good one.

 

[YotaConvert]

Hey Ambi...

thanks for the reply, love the avatar by the way and sweet rigs both you and Josh...Ambi, you'd definately be biased towards the 03 cuz it is a tamer version of the 'Beast'. identical save for the mods you've done! I expected to get posts on both sides of the cladding fence however based on the limited info I gave on the mechanical side of things can you give any imput? I know without seeing them in person it's tough to do but any imput would be great...thanks again guys...

 

[AmbideXtrous]

Mechanically they should be the same. I don't think there are any differences between the 03 and 04. Someone correct me if I am wrong. VVTi was introduced later.

You are right, I am biased towards the cladding. Two offroad club runs ago I got myself kind of wedged between a small embankment and a pretty big rock. I made it through but got to hear the rock slide the full length of the passenger side rocker. I could hear the plastic deforming. At the next stop I got out and looked and could barely even tell where it had happened. Even after cleaning the mud off there was very little evidence that it had occured. It is tough stuff!

 

[YotaConvert]

wow! that's exactly why I'm considering it...should I be concerned with the 03 being used for towing???

 

[AmbideXtrous]

wow! that's exactly why I'm considering it...should I be concerned with the 03 being used for towing???

That is tough to say. We occasionally use ours to tow our 28 foot travel trailer. It does a pretty good job. We have used the 4R to tow the TT about 8 times over the past 2 years. Never terribly far. Without knowing the person's usage then there is no way to say either way. Would I feel bad about buying my truck knowing what I put it through? Nope.

As for the backup camera, I can think of many reason to get one besides towing. Heck, I'd like to have one just to witness the mud flying out from behind me.

 

[YotaConvert]

okay, so basically as long as either one runs well and there aren't any noticable issues its going to come down to cost and my color preference...well, I'm going to go and take the silver one for another ride tonight and then make my decision...thanks again for your imput! by the way, I'd love to watch the mud fly on the cam too...although the moniter is mounted by the cup holders so a guy would have to really careful not to stare too long or there could end up being a new addition to the front end...say a tree for instance! all I know is no matter which one I pick its going to be a happy day when I pick it up!!!

 

[airbur]

I would go for the '04 with no cladding....personal preference of course. The 03s had a few issues that were fixed in 04. One was an issue with the tire-pressure sensors..other had to do with a bad sulfer smell during operations in colder weather. There were a few others but pretty minor.

While I agree that the cladding my be useful for off-road....REAL offroad where you indeed get yourself stuck between things, the visual appeal is just not there for me. My 2 cents. Good luck with your decision...either way....it's an awesome vehicle.

 

[YotaConvert]

Thanks for the reply Airbur! I was wondering with it being the 1st year of the 4th gen if there were any issues...is there a list somewhere of the problems? Maybe you might know a little more Ambi with your rig being an 03? Not trying to be lazy guys, just at work right now so I can't do a search until later on...

...not to change the subject and I know there are multiply threads on this but Airbur, any problems with your cornfed? thinking of 3/2 when I'm able...

 

[airbur]

Thanks for the reply Airbur! I was wondering with it being the 1st year of the 4th gen if there were any issues...is there a list somewhere of the problems? Maybe you might know a little more Ambi with your rig being an 03? Not trying to be lazy guys, just at work right now so I can't do a search until later on...

...not to change the subject and I know there are multiply threads on this but Airbur, any problems with your cornfed? thinking of 3/2 when I'm able...

Cornfed 2/1 is awesome. Just yesterday I got new 265/70 17s and they fill in the gap nicely! To me the 3/2 looks a little much unless you are going to fill the wells with even larger tires. Click on the link in my signature for the Goodyears...there are some pics.

 

[TehDago]

If you ask me real nice and pm me the vin #'s and your email address. I just might get you the carfax for both of em.

 

[Cybercannon]

Hi all,

03 sport V8,grey w/cladding, no spoiler, no undercoating, under 91km, com start, bu cam, jbl, about $22k,

or an 04 sport V8, silver no cladding, undercoating, spoiler, under 83km, jbl, asking $25k but I might be able to get them to the $22k range

Just my opinion, but for that milage and year the price seems high. Two months ago I bought my 05 Sport V8 with JBL and other extras with 29k miles for $22,000 American dollars (after some seriously informed negotiations and from a chevy dealer that didn't quite know what they had.) They were listing it at $26000. That was in Ohio, and I happened to know the 4runner was sitting on their lot for 4 months because I was following it on autotrader.com. That worked to my advantage.

Here's what I'm finding from kbb (kelly blue book).
That 03 has roughly 57k miles and $22, 300 American. With those options and in Alberta's zip code KBB is putting suggested retail at $21,625 (and that would be for excellent condition). The stealership paid roughly $15000 to $15600 if it was a traded in. They're going to put some money into fixing it up and making it presentable, and should make a small profit, but nothing extreme. A private seller should expect to get between $17500 and $18500. That is where I'd try to get the dealer to, or even $17000. That's still putting a good chunck of change in their pockets, especially since it's likely they ripped the person who traded it in and gave them less than listed above.

That 04 has roughly 52k miles and asking $25,340 American. KBB is listing suggested retail at $24000 (again, in excellent condition). The likely paid $16400 to $17400 or less for trade in (depending on who they ripped off again). Private seller would expect somewhere between $19400 and $20400. Again, I'd aim for the low end of those last numbers.

In that price range you should be able to get $4k down from suggested retail and down more if they were asking above that already. For example, that 04 looks about $1360 overpriced from even the suggested retail. No way. They get 19.5k - 20k.

An excellent (but very long) article can be found at edmunds.com:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

You can also research pricing of vehicles on edmunds, but my experience has been they their numbers are overly optimistic.

The dealer will try to tell you they use some other program for pricing vehicles. Don't get pulled into that. They pulled that crap with my wife and was saying the car we wanted to buy was listing much higher than kbb by this "better" program. They also only wanted to give us $1000 for our trade in. My wife mentally slapped him when she said "how about you run our trade in through that same program you got there?" His face went ashen and blank, but he reluctantly did it and our car came up $3500 on their program for trade in. Caught them red handed after trying to screw us. From that point I agreed to stick with my kbb estimate of $2500 for the trade in, but that also meant we were going to use kbb to negotiate the 4runner so we were comparing "apples to apples."

Don't let them 4box or 4square you. It's explained in that article, but basically it's when they list in one box their asking price (IN BIG IMPOSING NUMBERS TO INTIMIDATE YOU). In another box they list your trade in value. In another box goes the down payment. In the last box goes the monthly payment. Don't play this game. What they do is give you a deal in one area, but hurt you in another box so you never actually get a deal at all. Negotiate the trade in by itself. Negotiate the asking price by itself. Don't give any monthly payment numbers at all and instead insist on a certain rate. You should be able to go to bankrate.com to find what going rates are (for good credit people). I just looked and am seeing 6.5% to 7% being reasonable. Do not give them a monthly payment range though, because then they'll put you in a longer loan, or a higher interest rate. Somewhere they'll take advantage. By not arguing monthly payment you've really taken the other box of downpayment out of consideration as well, because they were going to use that to manipulate your monthly payment. It will still matter for financing and your actual payments though, so I do recommend putting money down if you can.

Another trick is that dealerships like it when you finance through them, and it's not bad so long as they give you a competitive rate that you already researched. When you finance through them the loan actually goes through some bank, and that bank pays the dealer a flat fee in the neighborhood of $200 and sometimes a percentage if it's a big purchase.

Of course you'll have to start lower than you want to end up (like around the trade in value). They'll laugh and say you're being unreasonable, but they started it with a $25k sticker. Don't worry about it and don't be aggressive or insulting. Just be cool calm and let the be aware of your research and you know what it's worth and back it up with kbb numbers, and even vehicles priced at other dealerships or privately. Hopefully these two vehicles aren't at the same dealer so you can play them off eachother. ("This one looks nice, but dealer x has an 03 for a lot less") These people would sell you a nickle for $1000 if you'd do it. They'll smile and shake your hand, but they're not your friends.

Pray about it, that the right car presents itself and you get a fair deal. Finally, have set values in your mind from your research that you're firm about. Maybe you really think $17k is the most reasonable, but you're willing to do $18k and not feel ripped off. Fine. Try for the $17k first, but if you can't even get the dealer to $18k then let them know you're sorry you can't reach an agreement and that you'll be shopping around. Often they'll after you and ask you to sit back down while they go ask the "invisible boss in the back room" if they can do something "special" for you. I think they just drink coffee and chat back there.

Two more big things you've got going in your favor. 1. It sounds like you don't absolutely NEED a new vehicle right now so you can be picky. 2. With gas prices what they are more people are trading these in and they're likely to sit on dealers lots for longer periods of time. That means they'll be more desparate to get them off the lot.

Sorry for the long novel. Bad habit. Hope some of that helps. It just sounded like you were ready to pay several thousand more than what I believe they're worth. Oh yeah, I choose the silver 04. I like the color, spoiler and never quite took to the cladding of the 03.

edit: Oh yeah... just say "NO" to the extended warranty. It's another great way to get you to fork over another few thousand dollars. At the very least say no until they drop the price of the warranty way down.

 

[YotaConvert]

Good morning guys!

First off, wow! thank you all for your responses, this is exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully I can put some of this to use although I may have inadvertently !*#*!*!@ myself, I'll explain and try to respond to everyone...

Airbur, thanks for the feeback on the 2/1, I don't want to go any bigger than your new shoes (at least not yet) so I will definately take this into consideration. I'm thinking the 265/70/17 but I also really like the 255/75/17 on the Rubi, the fact that they're supposed to be cheaper doesn't hurt either...I'll check yours out as soon as I have a chance...

Tehdago, thanks for the offer...I couldn't find a smiley that was begging sooooooo...please,please,please,prettyplease????? sorry not the best beggar in the world...I'll get my hands on the vin and shoot you all the info and if you're feeling generous please do what you can

Cybercannon, first off don't apologize, I'd rather have too much info than not enough and to be honest I tend to do the same(look out guys!). thank you very much and keep up the good work!

so I went and looked at the silver 04 again last night and have made my decision...the 03 hands down for a couple reasons...the interior is in way better shape(looks new to me), the 04 smells funny, has alot of wear spots and scratches that I didn't see the 1st time cuz it hadn't been cleaned yet. the 04 is from eastern Canada(no offense to anyone)and rust issues worry me(i looked at an 04 V6 at the same dealer that came from the east and it was scary all the surface rust, even more scary was the asking price and come to think of it, the 4 trucks they had all seemed to have the same rust spots and don't even ask about the pealing rims which leads me to my biggest reason, it just didn't feel right. I don't know how to explain this but my gut said no and i'm going to listen for once!

now, here's how I may have already s@$!#*d myself. the stealers told us in order to hold the vehicle they would have to fill out a BOS. so, not even thinking about it they fill it out( with the asking price) and I signed on the dotted line. DUH!! I wish my wife had done this! :bash: so now they have 1000 of our dineros and a signed document. now I don't have a problem with paying the asking price(or at least I didn't until Cybercannon's post!)because the payment is around where we wanted to be and for the shape, mileage etc. its the best price we've seen. just take a look at autotrader.ca for this area and you'll be blown away at what the asking prices are. ie. 02 limited 170k $15k / 03sr5 19k to 21k dep. on mileage, 03-04 sport/limited 22k to 29k...i've seen an 04 sport with over140k asking 26k!!! so, needless to say we were happily surprised when this 03 fell in our laps...now though I don't know if I can go back and negotiate the price or if I can even get out of it without losing our deposit. the salesman said we could get it back but it wasn't written on the bos so not sure now...

 

[YotaConvert]

checked out the kicks airbur, they look sweet! Nice clean ride by the way, don't see alot of white ones in my neck of the woods. Any plans to remove the boards?

 

[Red]

Yota,
Im just curious, what city are you located in and what dealer are you dealing with? If you'd rather not share that's fine.

I can X2 the outrageous price of 4Runners in this area compared to others.

 

[airbur]

checked out the kicks airbur, they look sweet! Nice clean ride by the way, don't see alot of white ones in my neck of the woods. Any plans to remove the boards?

Yea...I'd love to...the problem is that my wife is 5'1" and uses them daily to enter the rig. I'd love a set of Shrockworks sliders but not sure if they double as a good step.

 

[YotaConvert]

sorry airbur, I saw that on your wishlist and didn't put 2 and 2 together...duh! i think they would work although she'd have to be careful with foot placement...also maybe put some grip tape along the door sections of the SW to avoid splippage when wet etc...

Red, i'm in Oil Country!!! if you're in the area this should be enough info...if you cheer for the right team that is just kidding, the stealers are Park for the 03 and Gateway for the 04, why do you ask? in the market as well?

 

[Red]

Red, i'm in Oil Country!!! if you're in the area this should be enough info...if you cheer for the right team that is just kidding, the stealers are Park for the 03 and Gateway for the 04, why do you ask? in the market as well?

Ah yes, I know exactly where you are then. I was just wondering if it was one of the dealers in my area, curious thats all. I was in the market a couple months ago but not the same price range as you, I had to go with a 1995 4Runner for now. Im hoping that by the time the 5th Gen comes out I'll be able to splurge on a brand new vehicle.

Anyways, goodluck with the purchase! You're gonna love the new 4Runner.