Newbie to 4WD Snow Driving Questions

[SierraMare]

Lots of info on the Mountain Snowflake standard. It's a standard, and it's information that can help make a choice. At least its been tested, compared to someone's butt dyno which is a sample size of one... Good winter tires not only have lots of sipping, but they also have rubber mixtures that maintain flexibility in cold temps along with other features, that make them a jack of all trades in varying winter conditions, from snow to ice. Some should only be run during the winter due to fast wearing at warmer temps, others have harder mixtures that can be run year round. If a tire is capable of earning the designation, I'm skeptical about why they wouldn't submit to testing for marketing advantage in northern climes.

Three Peak Mountain Snowflake writeup from Michelin Canada:

Three peak mountain snowflake symbol and "M+S"

Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol
Only tires which have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol (a snowflake inside a mountain) have been tested for use in severe snow conditions. They meet or exceed industry-established severe snow traction performance requirements.
Tires with this marking are what we traditionally call "winter tires".

"M+S" generally means Mud and Snow for All-Season tires
They have been specially designed to improve your car’s performance in moderate winter conditions.
--

Here's a nice explanation: https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/mountainsnowflake-symbol/

 

[mazatal]

Stay home. Seriously. Why?

I've been driving in the snow for 30+ years and I live 10 minutes from a ski resort. When I go to an area like Charlotte that rarely gets snow, and it snows, I DO NOT get on the road with those amateur drivers!

Stop and think how people drive when it's sunny and dry. Now you want to get on the road with those same people when its slick?

For winter driving tips, there are several "how to" guides on google. Don't go out. Stay put. It will melt in a day. Watch the local news and see everyone else crashing. This is the only way to protect your vehicle. Leave it in the driveway.

If you want to learn how to drive in the snow, go somewhere where it snows regularly and people know how to drive in the snow.

Sage advice, even when the roads are empty around here.
I live at 5,240'. It is about 14 miles, plus another 2,000 feet of elevation higher, on a winter unmaintained, steep narrow mountain forest service 'road', to the nearest usually plowed asphalt state highway. None of the very few locals here try that mountain road after a 1' to 2' snow storm. A medical helicopter is called in for emergencies. We all have insurance for that. Otherwise we just stay put and put the beer outside in the snow. Until a couple of guys on chained side-by-sides check out the drifts and downed trees, no Jeeps or 4Runners, etc even try it .

 

[CrazyMike]

You did good. I am going to see my daughter and son in law this weekend in SC.

You'll be in our neck of the woods! Travel safe.

 

[vjack]

Lots of info on the Mountain Snowflake standard. It's a standard, and it's information that can help make a choice. At least its been tested, compared to someone's butt dyno which is a sample size of one... Good winter tires not only have lots of sipping, but they also have rubber mixtures that maintain flexibility in cold temps along with other features, that make them a jack of all trades in varying winter conditions, from snow to ice. Some should only be run during the winter due to fast wearing at warmer temps, others have harder mixtures that can be run year round. If a tire is capable of earning the designation, I'm skeptical about why they wouldn't submit to testing for marketing advantage in northern climes.

Three Peak Mountain Snowflake writeup from Michelin Canada:

Three peak mountain snowflake symbol and "M+S"

Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol
Only tires which have the Three Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol (a snowflake inside a mountain) have been tested for use in severe snow conditions. They meet or exceed industry-established severe snow traction performance requirements.
Tires with this marking are what we traditionally call "winter tires".

"M+S" generally means Mud and Snow for All-Season tires
They have been specially designed to improve your car’s performance in moderate winter conditions.
--

Here's a nice explanation: https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/mountainsnowflake-symbol/

I don't think the "three peak mountain snowflake" rating is particularly meaningful. As I recall it only requires the tires to perform about 10% better than a reference tire in snow. Some all-season tires even have the snowflake rating.

E.g. take a look at this winter tire comparison on pickup trucks. The "snowflake rated" KO2's performed about the same as stock all-seasons. On the other hand true winter tires like Blizzak's were significantly better.

For winter driving on roads you really want a dedicated winter tire. One of the most important differences in a true winter tire is that the rubber is softer and stays sticky at cold temps. Any tire you can drive year-round is simply not going to have that.

 

[jwkilgore]

[MENTION=149991]White Chocolate[/MENTION]
I also live in Chattanooga with a 4WD SR5. This "storm" won't stick to the roads. They already brined the roads and canceled school which almost always scares the snow away. It only snows when school is in session.

But on the off chance it does stick:

1. Everyone who said stay home is absolutely correct. Even if you are the best snow driver in the world, that won't help a bit when some wild-eyed southerner careens out of control and slams into you. I lived in the midwest for a decade driving a 2WD pickup; my SR5 handles snow like a tank compared to that tracktionless beast. But even I avoid roads if at all possible when snow first hits.
   
   On the other hand, after the initial panic has died down and the roads are empty (usually really early the next morning), it's quite fun to drive around in your 4WD. Even better, find an empty parking lot and practice. Try to lose and regain control so you'll know what to do in the future. If you want to turn donuts switch to 2Hi with VSC off. Watch for light poles.
   
   
   
2. Airing down is to help distribute the weight on top of packed snow (or mud or sand, or to better grip rock ledges) at slow speeds. At higher speeds you'll be much more likely to hydroplane. For slushy roads you want to push through the snow to the pavement. Keep 'em aired up.
   
   
3. With the locked center transfer case on your SR5 you'll want 2Hi if the roads are partially clear (brined/plowed with occasional patches of ice or slush). This gives you much better control at speed. Switch to 4Hi on side roads at lower speeds, especially if the snow cover is thicker or you need extra help getting up steep hills. 4Lo disables stability control (VSC) which causes inexperienced drivers to do a lot more skidding and spinning, and ATRAC doesn't help much in slush.
   
   
4. And most importantly, it's "four wheel DRIVE", not "four wheel "STOP". The extra two powered wheels will help you get moving and will help keep you from getting stuck, but it does NOTHING to help you stop. Watch your distances and brake early.

 

[MadeInMaine]

Stay home. Seriously. Why?

I've been driving in the snow for 30+ years and I live 10 minutes from a ski resort. When I go to an area like Charlotte that rarely gets snow, and it snows, I DO NOT get on the road with those amateur drivers!

Stop and think how people drive when it's sunny and dry. Now you want to get on the road with those same people when its slick?

For winter driving tips, there are several "how to" guides on google. Don't go out. Stay put. It will melt in a day. Watch the local news and see everyone else crashing. This is the only way to protect your vehicle. Leave it in the driveway.

If you want to learn how to drive in the snow, go somewhere where it snows regularly and people know how to drive in the snow.

I grew up in Maine, on dirt roads in the country, that didn't get plowed until the afternoon of a prior night storm sometimes.
The military has me down in MS right now, I lived in SoCal for 6 years;
I completely agree with 1engineer. I don't enter into a Crawfish Boil contest, just as I wouldn't ask a local here in MS for tips on how to cook my lobster. And I wouldn't want to see inexperienced drivers in the road in the cold down here.

Good words 1engineer

 

[1engineer]

Well [MENTION=149991]White Chocolate[/MENTION] what happened? BTW I knew another guy with the same nickname once upon a time. His name was Jason Williams. Play against him in a few summer league games. Him and some guy named Randy Moss. Even in high school those guys could play.

 

[MadeInMaine]

Yep! Snowflake doesn't mean everything. All it really means is that the compounds used in the tread meet the Rubber Manufacturer Association requirements for being a "severe snow service" tire. Whatever that means.

All I know is that my Coopers (non-snowflake) eat pow pow for breakfast.

Gorgeous picture....

 

[jwkilgore]

Well White Chocolate what happened?

I don't know exactly where around Chattanooga WC lives, but downtown it's after noon and I haven't seen more than a few sparse flurries. The chances for the afternoon have been reduced to 20%. Maybe next time. :noidea:

 

[mrk95]

Here in Nashville, the roads were covered this morning, and it is COLD.

Stay away from other folks (home) is good advice.

All the brine will melt everything a little bit this afternoon as the temps are up close to 20.

It will refreeze as the sun sets, and tonight will be nasty.

Also - all the village idiots were out driving this morning. Physics-be-danged. Days like today make me wish we'd kept the 3rd gen for kicks... and snow days.

 

[theladyviola]

Here in Nashville, the roads were covered this morning, and it is COLD.



Stay away from other folks (home) is good advice.



All the brine will melt everything a little bit this afternoon as the temps are up close to 20.



It will refreeze as the sun sets, and tonight will be nasty.



Also - all the village idiots were out driving this morning. Physics-be-danged. Days like today make me wish we'd kept the 3rd gen for kicks... and snow days.

I drove my Scion today because there was nothing on the ground in Smyrna when I left for work. It's white outside now in Nashville and I don't leave til after 7pm. Bring on the non-driving idiots. I'll def be driving the the T4R tomorrow morning!


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[mybabydaddy]

Just a light dusting here in DFW... but I'm sure there are plenty of idiots that will find a way to wreck later tonight.

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[blacksheep4]

Remember Raleigh, NC a couple of years ago when they got like 2"? If this image doesn't make you want to avoid snowy roads in climates that aren't used to it, I don't know what will.

 

[mybabydaddy]

Remember Raleigh, NC a couple of years ago when they got like 2"? If this image doesn't make you want to avoid snowy roads in climates that aren't used to it, I don't know what will.

HOLY SHIOTE....


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[1engineer]

Remember Raleigh, NC a couple of years ago when they got like 2"? If this image doesn't make you want to avoid snowy roads in climates that aren't used to it, I don't know what will.

Classic. I was in Atlanta several years ago when it started snowing hard for like 15 minutes. I pulled off the road into a parking lot and watched the carnage ensue.

 

[blacksheep4]

Classic. I was in Atlanta several years ago when it started snowing hard for like 15 minutes. I pulled off the road into a parking lot and watched the carnage ensue.

Good idea, it's best enjoyed as a spectator sport

 

[jwkilgore]

Classic. I was in Atlanta several years ago when it started snowing hard for like 15 minutes. I pulled off the road into a parking lot and watched the carnage ensue.

That's the second reference I've seen to Atlanta. A must-see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la-PK1wQrWs

That said, the famous "snowpocalypse" of 2014 (2" of snow resulting in vehicles stranded and abandoned on the interstate loops for up to 15 hours) wasn't a normal snow. It was actually a thick layer of black ice with 2" of snow on top of it, and the highway department had done exactly zero prep for it. if the same thing had happened in, say, Kansas City, it would have been almost as bad.

As for today, the latest predictions are for less than an inch in Chattanooga itself, but totals increasing rapidly as you go farther south and east.

 

[RunningWithFire]

Remember Raleigh, NC a couple of years ago when they got like 2"? If this image doesn't make you want to avoid snowy roads in climates that aren't used to it, I don't know what will.

About 10 minutes from my house. I've got my new 5th gen and want to get it out in the 8" of snow they are calling for overnight, but probably going to avoid it because of the other people. I'm sure it will be rough around here.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Just remember not to drive like this idiot -

Slow down, leave space, and you'll be just fine as long as you have proper tires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVdKCSQJpU0

:smow:

 

[e60ral]

Remember Raleigh, NC a couple of years ago when they got like 2"? If this image doesn't make you want to avoid snowy roads in climates that aren't used to it, I don't know what will.

i still had the 5 series during that

snow came down quick. From RTP to downtown Raleigh I was home in about 20 minutes, someone who left about 15 minutes after me took 4 hours.