Nitrogen and MPG...

dpr422

New member
I just put new tires on my 4R - the road hazard warranty came with Nitrogen gas (Go Green Auto Club and Customer Service Site) and the sales pitch that this would improve fuel economy..... Has anyone does this and confirmed that it is not just another snow job?

I will compare numbers of the next few months and dump it if I do not see a noticeable difference -- it is a year to year warranty..
 
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Technically, it should give you better fuel economy. Not because nitrogen is lighter and will make your tires and wheels have less rotational mass. But because nitrogen molecules are less affected by temperature. There is a better chance your tires will maintain it's correct tire pressure for longer. Correct tire pressure will directly affect your MPG. Son this will not make your average mpg higher per tank, but make it more consistent over the year.

I'm not personally a believer in nitrogen unless it's provided for free (Costco does this). There are some dealerships that will charge extra for it.

If you maintain your vehicle every 3-5k miles, you should be checking tire pressure anyway.
 
Technically, it should give you better fuel economy. Not because nitrogen is lighter and will make your tires and wheels have less rotational mass. But because nitrogen molecules are less affected by temperature. There is a better chance your tires will maintain it's correct tire pressure for longer. Correct tire pressure will directly affect your MPG. Son this will not make your average mpg higher per tank, but make it more consistent over the year.

I'm not personally a believer in nitrogen unless it's provided for free (Costco does this). There are some dealerships that will charge extra for it.

If you maintain your vehicle every 3-5k miles, you should be checking tire pressure anyway.

Absolutely correct.
 
I just put new wheels put on my Rig, and of course tires were filled with air, I'll be going for my 5k mile check at my Toyota dealer soon, and I've got a "free nitrogen fill," certificate from them, thinking about letting them re-install the nitrogen in all 4 tires.

Just a thought. :thumb3:
 
Please let us know if you see an increase in mpg.

I thought Nitrogen was mostly beneficial for sports cars or vehicles that experience extreme variations in tire temperature as the gas was more stable. Hence it's used in the aviation industry to fill airplane tires.

But I didn't know it could actually reduce the weight of the tire.
 
Please let us know if you see an increase in mpg.

I thought Nitrogen was mostly beneficial for sports cars or vehicles that experience extreme variations in tire temperature as the gas was more stable. Hence it's used in the aviation industry to fill airplane tires.

But I didn't know it could actually reduce the weight of the tire.

Here, 'up north', the temperature changes are significant enough to make the nitrogen fill even more useful. Temperature swings from -30 to +5 are not unusual (that's in celcius... what's that in farenheit, about 0 to 40) in a day, and it can change the PSI of the (air filled) tire by a fair bit.

The nitrogen fill make s abig difference at times like that.... when the last thing you want to be doing is taking off that damn mitten so you can get the cap off the valve-stem to check your tire pressure.

Much easier to fill with nitrogen, and forget about it.... at least for the winter.

mib
 
I have been running Nitrogen for approximately 6,800 miles. This has been used during the break-in period of the vehicle, so an increase in MPG was expected already. I live in MN and temperature drops can be significant in the Lake Vermillion area. NO NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE outside of more consistent tire pressure readings.

Bottom line: If offered free, such as at COSTCO, go for it. Otherwise, not worth the extra coin.

Hope this helps.
 
If I was right there and the gave it for free I'd say sure. Anything else and it would be a waste of gas and money. You're not going to save any mpg with nitrogen.
 
Here's some discussions on the board about this:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/73250-nitrogen-tires.html

and

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/39557-nitrogen-tires.html


Mine came with Nitrogen (green caps) when I got the truck. As I've had to add to it, I've just added air. My dealer doesn't normally have nitrogen, they had it put in at another (non-toyota) dealer they own. I wasn't going to drive to thier Ford dealer (on the other side of town) to get nitrogen in the tires. I was unaware costco had that, but those aren't really that close to me either. I really didn't notice anything substantial, and I check my tire pressure at ever fill up anyway.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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I thought nitrogen was used in tires because the molecular size was larger than Oxygen and hence leaked out less.

http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf

The ideal gas law suggests to me that the influence of temperature on the pressure is subtle when comparing O2 and N2.

Even when you put normal "air" in your tires remember it is 78% nitrogen already.

With regular "air" in the tires your tire pressure will change 1 psi for every 10 degrees. eg: 60 degrees tonight, tire pressure at 32 psi, 90 degrees today, tire pressure at 35 psi without changing anything. Now this is sitting in the driveway. If you are towing or hauling heavy loads you could heat up your tires more than ambient, or if they were sitting on blacktop all day the ambient temp could be 90 degrees and the tire temp could be 120, so it is the tire temp that is key.
 
Here, 'up north', the temperature changes are significant enough to make the nitrogen fill even more useful. Temperature swings from -30 to +5 are not unusual (that's in celcius... what's that in farenheit, about 0 to 40) in a day, and it can change the PSI of the (air filled) tire by a fair bit.

The nitrogen fill make s abig difference at times like that.... when the last thing you want to be doing is taking off that damn mitten so you can get the cap off the valve-stem to check your tire pressure.

Much easier to fill with nitrogen, and forget about it.... at least for the winter.

mib

I'd say Nnitrogen makes diffrence when you drop from 10,000 m where is -50C to the land where it's +30C in matter of minutes and touch down at 200 km/h so your tire go from 0km/h to 200km/h in fraction of a second.

I'm not sure in which part of Toronto temperature is routinely going from -30C to +5C, but even in that case nitrogen won't make much difference. regular air is over 70% nitrogen by the way. But nitrogen doesn't hurt of course, especially if it's free.
 
For the first couple of years, I was a skeptic about nitro. I have converted for the pressure stability issue alone. I like not having to worry about my summer-fall, fall-winter, and winter-spring pressure checks. Don't get me wrong, I check my pressures, but I like not having to feel committed to it. The biggest benefit for me is that when it does come time to check, I drive my ride to the dealership, and have them hook me up to the machine, and I have a better chance of an accurate fill than I would with a guage and air. I have never had my dealership check and fill my tires with air because by the time I get there under most circumstances, the tires are heated, the reads are inaccurate, and the adjustment is incorrect. I have never believed in nitrogen's seepage stuff about air. In order to claim seepage, you have to test under exact conditions--otherwise, the differential could be due to temperature.
 
....

I'm not sure in which part of Toronto temperature is routinely going from -30C to +5C, but even in that case nitrogen won't make much difference. regular air is over 70% nitrogen by the way. But nitrogen doesn't hurt of course, especially if it's free.

Indeed.... Toronto seldom goes that low (but I've been here when it has.... a few times)

Then again, my in-laws live north of Timmins.... ;-) Now, Timmins is the sort of place where there are plug outlets at the Tim-Hortons... but noone uses them 'cuz they just duck inside to get a coffee, and leave the car running, unlocked, etc. in the parking lot.... and it's still there when they come out.

And let's face it, you can easily drop from +10 in Toronto to -35 in Timmins on a decent day's drive. And I do that drive a few times a winter.

Just checked, and, the min/max temps for Timmins this January: -37.6 to +6.2 (celcius) For Toronto it was -21.2 to +12.

That 35 degree fluctuation in the space of a month will do whacky things to your tyre pressure.

As for the 'airplane' issue, the same holds true for a car... trust me, if you brought a car down from 10km, at 200kph, you'd also want nitrogen in your tires ;-)

mib
 
I put hydrogen in mine and it has affected mpg for the best, however I can't get the Hindenburg explosion out of my mind.:toilet:
 
My dealer does this to all new cars along with pinstripes. Then he feels justified to his standard $2995 markup. Of course, I did not consider this as any part of my negotiations.
I'm not a big believer in the benefits of nitro outweighing even the minor hassle and I've filled my tires at home with "normal air" as part of my usual maintenance routine.
The one possible benefit I can see is my "Nitro Fil" came with a roadhazard warranty. No need to cash it in...yet.
 
Nitrogen

Hello Folks,


First is that nitrogen is less likely to migrate through tire rubber than is oxygen, which means that your tire pressures will remain more stable over the long term. Racers figured out pretty quickly that tires filled with nitrogen rather than air also exhibit less pressure change with temperature swings. That means more consistent inflation pressures during a race as the tires heat up. And when you're tweaking a race car's handling with half-psi changes, that's important.

Passenger cars can also benefit from the more stable pressures. But there's more: Humidity (water) is a Bad Thing to have inside a tire. Water, present as a vapor or even as a liquid in a tire, causes more of a pressure change with temperature swings than dry air does. It also promotes corrosion of the steel or aluminum rim.

If I ever need to top off a tire when I'm out on the road, I'll always briefly depress the tire chuck's valve with my thumbnail and vent some air. If my thumb gets wet, there's water in the line. Some gas stations don't do a very good job of keeping the humidity out of their air system. I don't even like to use a water-based tire-mounting lubricant unless I can let the tire bake in the sun for a couple of hours before I air it up and seat the bead. I've dismounted tires (not mine) that had several quarts of water inside—probably from a compressed-air hose that collected water and was never purged properly.

How is water relevant to a nitrogen discussion? Any system that delivers pure nitrogen is also going to deliver dry nitrogen. Filling tires with nitrogen involves filling and purging several times in succession, serially diluting the concentration of oxygen in the tire. This will also remove any water.

It's certainly simple, although time-consuming, for a tire technician to fill and bleed tires. But most shops use a machine that not only generates almost pure nitrogen by straining the oxygen out of shop-compressed air, but will also automatically go through several purge cycles unattended. Some shops have been charging as much as $30 per tire for this service. I think that's too much. If you're buying a new tire, it should be far less. Still, the nitrogen generator, filling system and technician's time aren't free—the dealer is entitled to some return for that.

So, to answer your specific questions: With nitrogen, your tire pressures will remain more constant, saving you a small amount in fuel and tire-maintenance costs. There will be less moisture inside your tires, meaning less corrosion on your wheels. You will not be able to feel any difference in the ride or handling or braking, unless your tire pressures were seriously out of spec and changing to nitrogen brought them back to the proper numbers.

reference @ Nitrogen vs Air In Tires - Why Nitrogen in Tires - Popular Mechanics


Whether or not it makes environmental sense to inflate car tires with nitrogen instead of air is a matter of much debate. Proponents of nitrogen say the element is a smart choice for the environment primarily because it leaks from tires at a slower rate than air, so tires stay inflated longer at full capacity, which helps a vehicle attain maximum fuel efficiency, i.e. better gas mileage. According to the Get Nitrogen Institute, a Denver-based non-profit which advocates for replacing the air in our tires with nitrogen, under-inflated tires inadvertently are a big contributor to global warming as they cause drivers to waste fuel.

Although auto experts recommend checking your car’s tire pressure weekly, studies show that the majority of drivers rarely if ever check to see if their tires are properly inflated and usually only add air when a tire is visibly low or beginning to go flat. A recent study by the European division of tire maker Bridgestone found that 93.5 percent of cars in Europe have under-inflated tires, wasting some 2.14 billion gallons of high-priced, polluting fuel every year. Analysts believe that a similar percentage of North Americans are driving around on under-inflated tires as well.

reference @ Do Nitrogen-Filled Tires Enhance Fuel-Efficiency?: Scientific American


I prefer nitrogen filles tires.
 
Although auto experts recommend checking your car’s tire pressure weekly, studies show that the majority of drivers rarely if ever check to see if their tires are properly inflated and usually only add air when a tire is visibly low or beginning to go flat.

Hopefully when they sway the masses I can get a nitrogen fill at the free air machines. Until then, I run at perfect pressure, normal air, checked weekly.
 
There are two main advantages to nitrogen; optimal pressure will be maintained four times longer and there will be less pressure fluctuation when there is a temp change. Remember with air you will lose 1lb a month no matter what and 1lb for every 10 degrees. Nitrogen can be effective for commercial vehicles, aircraft, motorcycles, some racing applications and in some special applications like trailers.

There will not be any mileage gains!

My personal feelings are; if you can get it for free, use it. If you have to pay for it, I would pass.

Koz
 

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