Note to Forum...New Direction

[Thai]

Hey all,

Due to recent thread this past weekend where a few members were upset at me (and how this forum is run), this forum will be open to spammers, trolls, internal conflicts, and whatnot. I will even UNbanned Even Steven. He and other past members will have full access to this forum. I certainly do not want this forum to be a "Nazi camp" nor losing member on "principle" and certainly don't want this forum to be the "ONLY" forum on the net that bans people.

After yesterday and sleeping on it, i realize that i have spent way too much time on this forum...keeping it running smoothly. This forum was my (and Gatorgreg's) creation, but we certainly don't want any unhappy members. Apparently, a few of you are very unhappy here and, as creator and admin, this falls on me.

I will encourage my moderators to let the forum runs it's course without intervention. We will still be here to contribute...as members only. No double standard.

Thank you & enjoy the new forum.

 

[Even Steven]

Wow, you really did "unban" me.

You know, Thai, my intention was not to change the entire forum. For the most part, I think this is a good forum with good people. I just think you need to act more fairly with your authority.

I know for a fact that this will not last and you will continue to moderate the forum. You guys will not let the entire forum to go hell because some of the members here jumped on you in my thread yesterday.

 

[Thai]

I know for a fact that this will not last and you will continue to moderate the forum. You guys will not let the entire forum to go hell because of the my thread yesterday.

Let me see...i don't have a 4runner...Gatorgreg does not. We don't get paid...at least, i don't...never been. Gatorgreg has not asked for money in a while from the ads. We all have day jobs that are demanding...i have a new son that i am surely neglecting to be on here. The moderators are very cool bunch of guys, but we're not paying them a single penny besides occasional "Thanks".

Next time, Even Steven, be a man and post what you wrote to me before i banned you back in March instead of acting like an innocent victim! I am sure that people on here would like to see how insulting you can be from just a normal debate.

This forum has been my pride...but i certainly don't want this forum to be those adjectives listed above that were posted yesterday.

I want this forum to be a happy place.

 

[Even Steven]

Okay, Thai.... you can take this to an extreme if you wish, but I think I can safely say that the majority of members here don't want a forum that has no moderation at all. Moderating the forum is obviously an important job, and one that is required to keep the place in good shape.

But at the same time, I only wish you could see the flood of emails that I received from SOOO many members in support of my thread yesterday. I also received quite a few PMs in total support of my words in that thread. There are clearly quite a few members who had reason to be unhappy by the way you handle conflict as a moderator. That doesn't mean that EVERYONE should stop moderating the forum completely, it just means that you should lighten up a bit.

 

[Thai]

As some of you may know, we (admins and mods) have a separate subforum where we discuss issues about the forum. Here is a thread that i have moved from our private subforum to the Off-topic area: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=35706

Read it. Note...that thread was only a few days before i banned him due to his insulting post directed personally at me.

Now, let me ask you guys, why on earth would i want to have to defend myself on my own forum?? Hey, this is what some of you want...and apparently, Even Steven got a lot of "support".

Thanks.

 

[Even Steven]

Next time, Even Steven, be a man and post what you wrote to me before i banned you back in March instead of acting like an innocent victim! I am sure that people on here would like to see how insulting you can be from just a normal debate.

I refuse to let this thread become a continuation of the thread yesterday, so I'll just reply to you about this one time and leave it at that.

1- You called me a liar (among other things), but I don't know what you think I lied about. I really don't remember what I posted that got you upset and caused you to ban me. Was it bad? Probably...but maybe not as bad as you want to make it out to be.

2- Never did I say that I was an innocent victim. In fact, I posted earlier in the thread yesterday that I'm no angel and that I never claimed to be an angel.

3- Insulting? You can be just as insulting as me, Thai. I think we both have that ability, no?

Anyway, I'll let you get the last word because I don't want to wreck this thread.

 

[Thai]

I refuse to let this thread become a continuation of the thread yesterday, so I'll just reply to you about this one time and leave it at that.

You're right. Sorry to other members.

 

[TheBlueWave]

As a guy who has seen and been a member of many forums over the years, this one is good about letting idiots stir up trouble without banning them right away for the sake of good debate. The mods here do a good job walking that fine line, its not that easy! When things get rude, that's uncalled for, and that reflects banning folks.
I hope you mods are just messing around and really do plan to continue to moderate as before. People on here are usually nice, not making fun of people's questions or comments, etc. Upsetting that balance would suck.
Anyway, its yours, do as you wish, you certainly have that right. If people think this forum sucks, they can go elsewhere.

 

[juneau92]

<Snip>

Thank you & enjoy the new forum.

Thank you, Thai.

I think you might feel unappreciated, and that is far from the truth. The good folks here are 4Runner enthusiasts, like myself, and frequent these forums to enjoy the camaraderie and exchange of information of the many other members. Your work in creating this site and maintaining these forums are much appreciated.

I don't think anyone would be upset for your banning of spammers, trolls, and the like. Banning a contributing member of our forum seems extreme, even if his approach seems at times a bit harsh or over-bearing, and that's what upset some of us.

You do a good job here, Thai. Thanks for letting Even Steven return. Thanks for listening to our forum members.

 

[Even Steven]

Re: Re: Note to Forum...New Direction

Thank you, Thai.

I think you might feel unappreciated, and that is far from the truth. The good folks here are 4Runner enthusiasts, like myself, and frequent these forums to enjoy the camaraderie and exchange of information of the many other members. Your work in creating this site and maintaining these forums are much appreciated.

I don't think anyone would be upset for your banning of spammers, trolls, and the like. Banning a contributing member of our forum seems extreme, even if his approach seems at times a bit harsh or over-bearing, and that's what upset some of us.

You do a good job here, Thai. Thanks for letting Even Steven return. Thanks for listening to our forum members.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I've been a contributing member for a while here and I'd like to think that I've helped other members in the past as well as have been helped by other members.

That said, I think it is fair to say that I'm not a troll or spammer. Am I an A-hole? Sure, sometimes, but I'm not alone in that regard. I think that any member of this forum who is truly a contributing member should be given a little slack when it comes to problems/debates/arguments or whatever. A permanent ban seems a little harsh for any member who has been here and has contributed in the past. Maybe my sentence should have been a 3-day ban or something... I dunno.

But I do think the forum members will enjoy a kinder, gentler Thai

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Re: Re: Note to Forum...New Direction

Thank you, Thai.

I think you might feel unappreciated, and that is far from the truth. The good folks here are 4Runner enthusiasts, like myself, and frequent these forums to enjoy the camaraderie and exchange of information of the many other members. Your work in creating this site and maintaining these forums are much appreciated.

I don't think anyone would be upset for your banning of spammers, trolls, and the like. Banning a contributing member of our forum seems extreme, even if his approach seems at times a bit harsh or over-bearing, and that's what upset some of us.

You do a good job here, Thai. Thanks for letting Even Steven return. Thanks for listening to our forum members.

Ditto! :iagree: Thank-you (and all the mods) for the countless hours you spend/have spent to make this a truly awesome T4R resource.
:cheers:

 

[MAC4Runner]

I don't know the back story, but it seems pretty simple to me. Thai's forum, Thai's rules.

My $.02

 

[Neversummer]

Since it's going in a new direction, please can we update to decent software also?

I think this vBulletin version is from 1982.

 

[Iron Clad Lou]

Since it's going in a new direction, please can we update to decent software also?

I think this vBulletin version is from 1982.

yea, the hell with personal feelings...lets get the damn database error issue resolved!

 

[juneau92]

yea, the hell with personal feelings...lets get the damn database error issue resolved!

LOL

 

[rook]

Welcome back, with a caveat.

Does un-banning Even Steven make the forum a better place? I know not. I am pretty thick skinned, but others may not be. I have seen many threads where ES has contributed extremely well e.g. the (disappearing) intermittent wiper mod. As he became a more seasoned member, his posts became agitating, confrontational and down right rude, especially to new members. No doubt he and Thai would eventually clash, two highly opinioned people are bound to do so.

With the Odd Eddie thread came the comparisons to Thai and Koz, who fight like brothers. The difference is in the end, Koz and Thai both realize that to them it was more important to win the argument than to see the other one's point. Some of these arguments get chippy but they do not cross the line. ES, you are no Koz, sir.

The last straw came when ES chose to duke it out with Gator Greg, over something as trivial as a the size of a signature pic. Its ironic that shortly after GG deleted the pic from the sig that ES changed his tag to GG=AH... care to explain that one Steven? Call the forum host an a$$hole and then stage a e-coup (breaking yet another rule) to get reinstated! How cowardly!

All of this however does not mean he cannot again be a good contributor to the forum. ES, you can be a bit rough at times and although I see this as part of your personality, others may not. In fact, some of your posts have cracked me up. Bring your A-game this time, and when you feel like popping off, grab a beer and think twice before hitting the submit reply button.

 

[toto]

I for one am disappointed by this recent mess, especially if it leads the mods to a "hell with it" attitude. Let's get real - nobody gets banned just because they disagreed with the moderator. It's the way people disagree - if one person is posting many replies in one thread and posting the same idea or position over and over, it's a red flag. Everyone has an opinion, so everyone should be welcome to speak, whether or not you think they're "right" or "wrong". Once you speak your mind, don't post and post and post trying to convince other people that your way is the right way. That's what leads to abusive comments, and that's what happens the few times we have problems around here. If you don't have something new and constructive to say about the subject of the thread - and not the other posters, their spelling, or their opinion - then please don't keep replying.

 

[Even Steven]

Welcome back, with a caveat.

Does un-banning Even Steven make the forum a better place? I know not. I am pretty thick skinned, but others may not be. I have seen many threads where ES has contributed extremely well e.g. the (disappearing) intermittent wiper mod. As he became a more seasoned member, his posts became agitating, confrontational and down right rude, especially to new members. No doubt he and Thai would eventually clash, two highly opinioned people are bound to do so.

With the Odd Eddie thread came the comparisons to Thai and Koz, who fight like brothers. The difference is in the end, Koz and Thai both realize that to them it was more important to win the argument than to see the other one's point. Some of these arguments get chippy but they do not cross the line. ES, you are no Koz, sir.

The last straw came when ES chose to duke it out with Gator Greg, over something as trivial as a the size of a signature pic. Its ironic that shortly after GG deleted the pic from the sig that ES changed his tag to GG=AH... care to explain that one Steven? Call the forum host an a$$hole and then stage a e-coup (breaking yet another rule) to get reinstated! How cowardly!

All of this however does not mean he cannot again be a good contributor to the forum. ES, you can be a bit rough at times and although I see this as part of your personality, others may not. In fact, some of your posts have cracked me up. Bring your A-game this time, and when you feel like popping off, grab a beer and think twice before hitting the submit reply button.

Good post, rook, but I think you missed a few points.

First of all, the whole signature pic thing was started because I posted 5 pictures (not large ones, by the way) of a car/deer accident that was pretty much incredible. I was told to stop wasting forum bandwidth by posting pictures that are not 4Runner related. Fair enough, but on that very day I read several other threads with bigger pictures than mine that had nothing to do with 4Runners. My pictures were delted almost immediately. When I pointed out that there are plenty of other threads with pictures (some posted by Moderators, BTW) I was told that it was okay. They even went as far to tell me that some of the moderator's pictures were hosted on another site. Okay, fair enough again.

Then Gator Greg deleted my sig pic because it violated the NEW forum rules that dictates the size of your signature pic. I never had a chance to resize it....it was simply deleted. And of course I had to point out that SEVERAL members had a bigger sig pic than myself, yet they continued to post. Not to pick on Josh here, but the guy posts like 25 times per day, so I saw his large signature pic constantly. So again it boils down to treating people fairly. If the rules apply to everyone, then make sure everyone is following them....not just me because a mod gets angry at me.

Oh, and if you think I "staged a e-coup" yesterday, you're giving me far too much credit. I never planned (or hoped) to be reinstated. That wasn't my intention at all. Quite honestly, I wanted to say my peace and get banned under my new username. But then a funny thing happened--people started coming out of the woodwork in support. I was actually kind of surprised. And like I said earlier, if you guys could only see how many people sent me emails in my support, you'd realize how many people feel similarly to me.

 

[simple]

I think what Rook is getting is the bickering by both sides is really, really annoying. Your thread may not have stared a coup, but it sure as hell feels like the forum has divided picking sides.

The arguments keep spreading to other threads it seems. The incessant need to defend oneself over a trite remark the other has said is lame. Debating is great, but please understand, 'you're stupid' is not a valid rebuttal.

The truth is both sides are handling this very badly. This forum needs a hero, and that hero will be insulted by some shitty member, and they will say, "**** that, who gives a shit" and move on with their day.

A good example, and trust me there are plenty from both sides so don't feel called out, but ES, instead of saying, 'roger that' to Rooks post you felt the need to continue with the remarks. We know you feel like you've been wronged, and you've made it clear in your 'thai is a punk thread'. But sometimes situations just call for accepting a little blame and moving on.

 

[Muffin-Man]

Good post, rook, but I think you missed a few points.

First of all, the whole signature pic thing was started because I posted 5 pictures (not large ones, by the way) of a car/deer accident that was pretty much incredible. I was told to stop wasting forum bandwidth by posting pictures that are not 4Runner related. Fair enough, but on that very day I read several other threads with bigger pictures than mine that had nothing to do with 4Runners. My pictures were delted almost immediately. When I pointed out that there are plenty of other threads with pictures (some posted by Moderators, BTW) I was told that it was okay. They even went as far to tell me that some of the moderator's pictures were hosted on another site. Okay, fair enough again.

Then Gator Greg deleted my sig pic because it violated the NEW forum rules that dictates the size of your signature pic. I never had a chance to resize it....it was simply deleted. And of course I had to point out that SEVERAL members had a bigger sig pic than myself, yet they continued to post. Not to pick on Josh here, but the guy posts like 25 times per day, so I saw his large signature pic constantly. So again it boils down to treating people fairly. If the rules apply to everyone, then make sure everyone is following them....not just me because a mod gets angry at me.

Oh, and if you think I "staged a e-coup" yesterday, you're giving me far too much credit. I never planned (or hoped) to be reinstated. That wasn't my intention at all. Quite honestly, I wanted to say my peace and get banned under my new username. But then a funny thing happened--people started coming out of the woodwork in support. I was actually kind of surprised. And like I said earlier, if you guys could only see how many people sent me emails in my support, you'd realize how many people feel similarly to me.

I think this double standard and unfair treatment was very similiar to what happened to many people (Including myself) just nobody said anything. I know your intention was only to point out your frustration at the behavior of a certain admin. After I read it though, it was amazing how similar it was to my situation in the past with deleting comments, biased treatment, ect. I too was surprised that so many people had been frustrated by their treatment. I am glad that this came out and was brought to light, because this is the kind of thing that can ruin a forum, especially if members who contribute regularly feel alienated like koz.