November 2005 T4ROTM - JB.

[JB.]

Colorado Offroad Trip

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Hey all, JB. is the winner of the November 2005 T4R of the Month award - congrats JB.! Click HERE to see all the past T4ROTM winners.

GG
11/02/05
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I recently returned from a month on the road - except I was mostly off the road. I stayed in Ouray, Colorado for two weeks and free-styled a week before and after. I thoroughly scratched my off-roading itch and got a really good line on what the vehicle is capable of. I did the following trails chronologically:

Red Dirt Creek
Lead King Basin
Brush Creek-Hagerman Pass
Red Cone Pass-Webster Pass/Handcart Gulch
Mt. Antero
Yankee Boy Basin-partial Imogene Pass
Imogene Pass
Black Bear Pass
Black Bear Pass (again)
Alpine Loop
Corkscrew-California Gulch-return Engineer Pass
County Road 5-Ridgway
Owl Creek Pass
Medano Pass into the Great Sand Dunes

The 4Runner perfomed extremeley well, both on and off road. Traction was incredibly good. I had no traction problems even where the books warned I might. There were many, isolated indications of great traction that weren't necessarily conclusive by themselves, but they all added up to my being very happy with the tires. I don't know exactly how the credit should be allocated between the tires and the 4Runner, but the combination was impressive.

I was amazed at how little gas I used while going all day and never shutting the engine down. Not much more than I woud expect to use just letting it idle.

Downhill assist made the steep, one-way descent at Red Cone a cakewalk. In that circumstance, it was like having a slower crawl ratio. Not that it was as dangerous as the books make it sound in the first place, but it was really a non-issue with the D.A. which I really wanted to test. I wasn't sure that it wasn't a bit of a gimmick, but in the proper conditions - very steep, slippery downhill without big rocks - it performs very well. I tried it both on and off and while it wasn't necessary, it was nice to have.

A slightly humourous aside - MS Streets & Trips 2004, with default settings, will route you to Alamosa from Ouray via much of the Engineer Pass road. (Engineer is underrated imo. Perhaps the 3rd most difficult on the list.) So, following the directions, you turn onto the road from highway 550 and complete the next 3 miles in 12 minutes. I'd hate to be the guy driving a sedan, in a bit of a rush, looking up at Engineer Road realizing it is, indeed, the route I'm supposed to take.

Thanks to ToyotaDoodz for all the info and for taking the trouble of writing up an Ouray itinerary. Big thanks, also, to Darren at Mycolorado.org. His site is packed with information and was a very valuable resource for me.

 

[JB.]

Gotta love Fall.

 

[JB.]

Now a few action shots.
On the way up to Red Cone.

Imogene "slick" rock in the rain.

How do ya take on a Black Bear? Hit it with a pair of white knuckles.

A grainy screenshot from video.

The tightest switchback. Get by this and it's all, uh... downhill.

Done with the white knuckle stuff. Time for some relaxing views.

 

[JB.]

Corkscrew Gulch. My favorite pic of the lot.

The fledgling fog in this foto was an indication of what lay ahead.

Nice fog. No big deal except I had most of Engineer Pass to descend to get back.

Medano Pass into Great Sand Dunes. Fun place.

Headin' home through Arizona.

 

[vandert]

WoW

Making me miss Colorado BAD.

Oh well, I'll get back there eventually. Beautiful shots, I get made fun of all the time because I take pics w/ vehicles in the for Forum's too.

Good times, Good times, we are all a rare breed of Internet Gearheads.

T

 

[JB.]

Re: WoW

I get made fun of all the time because I take pics w/ vehicles in the for Forum's too.

LOL! I have a standard disclaimer, now, anytime I show people outdoor pictures.

 

[nated05]

AWESOME!!! I love going to colorado, but i have yet to go when the aspen are changing. I was in the Salida, Buena Vista area in aug. and we did some offroading. Im limited on my choices of trails though my fiancee doesnt like the narrow switchbacks w/1000+ft dropoffs. I was also very impressed with my 4r even with the stock dunflops, i cant remeber slipping once while offroad. I needed some new desktop wallpaper, Thanks!

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

JB, great pics and write up. Glad you both had a good time.

I recognize almost every spot in your pics. How'd you like Black Bear?

The downhill assist is great when it's really steep like 30 degrees or so. Lets you concentrate on driving.

Makes me want to go back.

 

[JB.]

How'd you like Black Bear?

Black Bear was interesting. My experience at Red Cone indicated to me, perhaps, I could consider it. The first run started out as strictly a reconnaissance, but you know how that goes. I did it twice because I was so nervous the first time, based on its reputation, it was all a blur. No pictures in the difficult zone, I just wanted to survive. Having completed the trail and confirming that I was still among the living, I decided I had to do it the next day and really enjoy it. Interestingly, it seemed more technical to me the second time.

There was almost no traffic on the trail, but I saw and ran into one vehicle each time. Day one, as I was walking back up the "steps" from a survey, an LR3 pulled behind me. Turns out it was a guy who had just bought it, had been pitched about its capabilities by the dealer, and was determined to find out and had chosen Black Bear off a map. His poor wife was already a wreck and upon seeing the "steps" got out and wouldn't ride with him anymore. She also started crying. She walked down and joined my son who I didn't want in the vehicle at that point, and I went down followed by the LR3.

Day two, a guy pulled behind in a built up jeep while I was making the turn on the tight switchback. Lifted, duel lockers, big MTRs, winch, high-lift on the back. As I'm guessing was also your experience, the most common vehicles I encountered on the trails were jeeps, many of them built up and probably many of them rentals. The 4runner got some good PR.

 

[AlexJet]

Nice pictures.... Looks like its been fun for you.

 

[Koz]

Black Bear was interesting. My experience at Red Cone indicated to me, perhaps, I could consider it. The first run started out as strictly a reconnaissance, but you know how that goes. I did it twice because I was so nervous the first time, based on its reputation, it was all a blur. No pictures in the difficult zone, I just wanted to survive. Having completed the trail and confirming that I was still among the living, I decided I had to do it the next day and really enjoy it. Interestingly, it seemed more technical to me the second time.

Great pics. and details. The last time I was out there I had my PreRunner (2wd with rear locker), so I decided against Black Bear. I plan on going out there next summer and am very interested in Black Bear and the Lion's Back. If you could share some details, it would be appreciated. Is your 4Runner completely stock? If not, what mods do you have? How difficult was Black Bear and were there any areas that caused problems. Also is there anything you would do differently if you were to do it again? Are there any tips you think would help?

I'm also interested to know how the 4Runner performed compared to the LR3 and on the other trails you were on?

Thanks for any info.
Koz

 

[BlkSS1755]

great pics! :bigok:

 

[Kmvreter]

Nice pics of a nice trip!
I've got to get out west with the T4R some time. I hope to do a big loop going out to the Canadian Rockies then south through the western states and back via the midwest.

ps. How did the BFG's work for you?

 

[JB.]

If you could share some details, it would be appreciated.
Koz

Glad to.

Is your 4Runner completely stock?

It's stock with sidesteps removed, 32" ATs, and the tail pipe altered for clearance.

The last time I was out there I had my PreRunner (2wd with rear locker), so I decided against Black Bear.
Koz

Does that have low range? If it does, since the difficult parts of Black Bear are downhill, it could be done in a Pre-runner with locker. The run up and over the pass is not difficult - not sedan easy, but with the locker I don't think it would be a problem. The trail is completed pretty quickly, actually. Low range, a little ground clearance, off-road experience, and something less than a full-size wheelbase is all you need. You're taking your 4runner? The trucks the tour companies take over Black Bear have a longer wheelbase than a 4runner and before I did it I asked to make sure they don't back down any of the switchbacks.

How difficult was Black Bear and were there any areas that caused problems. I'm also interested to know how the 4Runner performed compared to the LR3..
Koz

The difficult parts of Black Bear are only a tiny percentage of the trail. It boils down to 3 areas. You come up and over the pass and head down a ways before things get a little tough. The lead-in to the "steps" right after the creek crossing gets a little difficult with one really tight, but not real dangerous switchback. Then come the "steps" which are a couple of hundred yards in length. Shortly after that is the tightest switchback with a steep edge. There are a couple more tight switchbacks afterwards but after what you've just done you don't even blink. I'd recommend doing it with one of the books in hand. If you'd like to see it before doing it, it's easily reconnoitered from either side with just a little hiking, . A nice day would be doing Imogene, which is really fun, into Telluride and then driving up the Black Bear switchbacks until they're one-way and then park and hike. From there the tightest switchback is about .6 miles and the steps are another 1/2 mile.

The switchbacks are dangerous if you're changing CDs or eating a sandwich. If you just go slow, backup as needed and pay full attention, there's little problem. It's easy to lift a wheel on the tight switchback after the steps, but it's pretty fun, actually. At first glance, the "steps" appeared to require more ground clearance than I possessed but there are spots to place the wheels all the way down. The challenge is manageable in the 4runner, but I'd say only do it if you enjoy the challenge. Having personally enjoyed the traction of ATs at 24psi, I don't think I'd be thrilled to do it in street tires, but then again, the LR3 had stock tires and had no problems that I know about. I wouldn't do it with the sidesteps unless you don't care about beating them up. I can't tell you much about the LR3. All I know is he made it down, too. After "the" steps, I guess I relaxed too much and I clunked down hard off a step that took me by surprise. I asked him later and he also hit bottom there. I guess we weren't the only ones as the next day someone had filled it in with rocks. Nothing happpened to either confirm or contradict the LR3s reputation off road.

As an aside, the visibility is great everywhere. I'd hate to have to negotiate that stuff through the shadow and light of aspen trees like on many of the other trails.

I'm also interested to know how the 4Runner performed.. ..on the other trails you were on?

Really well. One of the questions I wanted to answer with this trip is how much difficulty the 4runner, with its current setup, could handle relative to the trail ratings of the two Colorado books I had been reading to prepare (Charles Wells book and 4wd Adventures). I was pleasantly surprised. 4wd Adv. is truly an SUV book and seldom goes higher than a 5 rating on a 10 scale. I'd feel comfortable planning to do any of the trails in the book. Wells' book has a broader range and sorts the trails into 3 groups, Easy, Moderate, Difficult with the last few in the difficult group getting into major modification range. Lead King, Mt Antero, Webster, Black Bear, and Red Cone all come from the difficult group and rate 5,5,5,6,7, respectively, in 4wd Adv. I went over a lot of stuff that seemingly required more clearance than I have. That's where (I surmise) traction and, thus, to some degreee the tires come into play. Being able to crawl really slowly without the need for momentum effectively increases ground clearance. It could still happen, but after getting a real good feel for the limits of my setup, I'm less likely to lift now. I can go out and enjoy the road driveability and know that I can get to just about any off-road destination I'd like. I'm happier with the 4runner than ever.


Also is there anything you would do differently if you were to do it again?
Koz

Hmmmm......more pics

 

[JB.]

ps. How did the BFG's work for you?

They'd have to be pryed from my cold, dead fingers

I was a little concerned with comments I'd read here regarding hydro-planing on the road, but I drove in lots of rain, some very heavy, with no problems.

 

[Koz]

JB,

The PreRunner has great ground clearance (12

 

[Solice]

JB,

The PreRunner has great ground clearance (12

 

[JB.]

What do you think about the Lion's back?

I'll do it if you will. You go first

I'm real interested in seeing it up close. I'd defintely have to walk it before I'd even consider doing it. That said, with low-range it doesn't seem to have much technical challenge. It seems to be more in the category of thrill seeking.

 

[JB.]

How did the BFG's work for you?

A re-look at something has prompted me to provide this anecdote.

Near the top of Imogene pass was an uphill, right-hand bend with a thin layer of wet snow. To the left was a spur that I passed up then decided to go down. I backed into the spur to let a Silverado pass who was coming up a short distance behind. Through my windshield I sat and watched it make attempt after attempt at getting up the hill in 4wd with street tires. It looked like it was going to take a while so I took some video to pass the time. After 6 or 8 tries he finally made it and I pulled out of the spur to back down and go in. As a test, I backed down to the place that seemed to give the Chevy the most trouble and from a standstill I walked right up the hill a second time with no apparent slippage.

I passed on making this my original reply because I had decided that the only explanation was that the truck had open differentials which would make the story pretty meaningless. I went back and scrutinized the video and discovered that all the wheels were driving. I'm sure the 4runner contributed significantly, but I think for the most part, this is a tire story.

Like I said - cold, dead fingers. :biggrin2:

 

[Koz]

From what I have read, you need (the NERVE) a reliable 4wd, keep it centered going up and the difficult part is the 9 point turn at the top to come back down.