NY Mosque Near Ground Zero

[Jed]

Cannot be seen from ground zero? The point is that it is too close, whether that is actual distance or emotional. If your mosque center is about peace and loving all people, then why build something that is so controversial and hurtful for so many people???!!

Damn, I didn't want to get sucked too far into this, but I have to reply.

First, who decides "how close" is okay? A mile? Two miles? Ten miles? Somewhere outside of Manhattan? Come on, Thai....you must realize that the difference of opinion will vary greatly. What you may consider okay might not be okay with others.

Secondly, you have to acknowledge that 9/11 was the result of radical (or extremist) Muslims. To stereotype all Muslims as radicals is just wrong. If we do that, we're holding an entire RELIGION responsible for 9/11, instead of the radical extremists who actually participated in 9/11

 

[Thai]

Jed...and IMO, for "them" to keep pushing for this "peaceful" center DESPITE vocal oppositions, it makes me think that they are disrespectful and, possibly, spiteful. We will find out down the road i guess.

And as far as i know, no American has gunned down the mosque leaders nor car bombed the construction company.

 

[Thai]

Damn, I didn't want to get sucked too far into this, but I have to reply.

First, who decides "how close" is okay? A mile? Two miles? Ten miles? Somewhere outside of Manhattan? Come on, Thai....you must realize that the difference of opinion will vary greatly.

Secondly, you have to acknowledge that 9/11 was the result of radical (or extremist) Muslims. To stereotype all Muslims as radicals is just wrong.

Again, why build a PEACEFUL center in such a controversial and hurtful location? Why? I would build it where there is more acceptance, whether that be 1 foot away or 100 miles away...remember, what this center is about!

 

[brian2sun]

You can't say on one hand that people have to understand a concept in order to assimilate into society without also acknowledging that those very same people have to understand the other concept as well.

Well my point is, this action is not helping the way they are seen by the majority of Americans. Right or wrong, they are setting themselves back by doing this IMO.

 

[Jed]

Jed...and IMO, for "them" to keep pushing for this "peaceful" center DESPITE vocal oppositions, it makes me think that they are disrespectful and, possibly, spiteful. We will find out down the road i guess.

And as far as i know, no American has gunned down the mosque leaders nor car bombed the construction company.

I don't think it's an issue of disrespect...at least not from their perspective. We may see it as that way, but I highly doubt that is their intention.

And if an American gunned down mosque leaders or bombed the construction company, then we're just as bad as the extremist Muslims of 9/11. I certainly hope nothing like that happens.

 

[Thai]

Secondly, you have to acknowledge that 9/11 was the result of radical (or extremist) Muslims. To stereotype all Muslims as radicals is just wrong. If we do that, we're holding an entire RELIGION responsible for 9/11, instead of the radical extremists who actually participated in 9/11

When did we stereotype? My business partner is Muslim. Fine. But, don't freaking disrespect my country by doing something that they should NOT be doing. I don't give a rats ass if they build in Nebraska or Miami Beach.

 

[Jed]

Again, why build a PEACEFUL center in such a controversial and hurtful location? Why? I would build it where there is more acceptance, whether that be 1 foot away or 100 miles away...remember, what this center is about!

I edited (added to) that post before you replied... but again, if they are promoting peace, why not build a mosque in downtown? Or anywhere for that matter? Remember--you should separate extremists from the majority of Muslims.

 

[Jed]

When did we stereotype? My business partner is Muslim. Fine. But, don't freaking disrespect my country by doing something that they should NOT be doing. I don't give a rats ass if they build in Nebraska or Miami Beach.

We are stereotyping if we don't see that extremists do not share the same views as most Muslims. How is that not stereotyping? We are opposing Muslims from building a mosque close to Ground Zero, but it's not like THE TERRORISTS are building the mosque. It's peaceful Muslims. They are not the same people, although they share a basis of religion.

 

[Thai]

I don't think it's an issue of disrespect...at least not from their perspective. We may see it as that way, but I highly doubt that is their intention.

And if an American gunned down mosque leaders or bombed the construction company, then we're just as bad as the extremist Muslims of 9/11. I certainly hope nothing like that happens.

BUT, Jed, THEY KNOW NOW, right? So, why are they still pushing for it? Can you explain that to me? Building this center will result in more hatred and controversy that this center is apparently trying to resolve. Why do it?

 

[Jed]

Well my point is, this action is not helping the way they are seen by the majority of Americans. Right or wrong, they are setting themselves back by doing this IMO.

Yeah, the whole thing is a mess and it would have been better if it never happened. But now that the plans are out there, we have to deal with it. All I'm saying is that we should think critically about the issue instead of having a knee-jerk reaction and screaming that they shouldn't be doing it. Sure, that's the initial reaction of MOST Americans, but when you really think about it, we're going against the wrong people, meaning peace-loving Muslims. NOT all Muslims are terrorists! Like I said earlier in the thread--people are thinking with their hearts instead of their heads. That's just my opinion....

 

[Thai]

but it's not like THE TERRORISTS are building the mosque. It's peaceful Muslims. They are not the same people, although they share a basis of religion.

You're sure of this? I don't know...i am sure that they are peaceful folks. Symbolism is what matters here. But, peaceful Muslims do have common sense, right? Please refer back to the Japanese prime minister example. To offer peace, you gotta take the first step, esp. if it is your religion, nation, or culture that caused the pain and suffering.

 

[Jed]

BUT, Jed, THEY KNOW NOW, right? So, why are they still pushing for it? Can you explain that to me? Building this center will result in more hatred and controversy that this center is apparently trying to resolve. Why do it?

Yes, they do. And they probably should drop their plans or change their plans. Why are they not? I'm not sure. I'm not prepared to say the reason is a sinister one or a matter of disrespect...I don't know enough about the issue to say either way...

In the end, I'm betting that they will not build a mosque there. Not because they can't....but just because they realize that people will probably die if it is built. And therein lies the problem with our opposition.....we basically bullied them into not building a mosque for no good reason other than our own feelings of disrespect. So we win, right? Yeah, but we lose also.

 

[Jed]

You're sure of this? .

I'm fairly certain. I think out govt. is on top of Muslim terrorists and I doubt any terrorists are busy building mosques right now. Whatever money they have left is surely going towards their next big attack!

 

[Thai]

I'm fairly certain. I think out govt. is on top of Muslim terrorists and I doubt any terrorists are busy building mosques right now. Whatever money they have left is surely going towards their next big attack!

Haven't we been wrong before? Didn't we miss that beautiful Russian spy recently? Whatever Muslim (terrorist or not) build the mosque is not really the point...the point is that they are building it on/near/whatever a site that represents pain and sufferings of many many Americans.

Again, remember, i am against that idiot in FL who is gonna burn the Koran this Sa****ay. Now, that guy needs the CIA "cleaner" to visit.... :gun5:

 

[brian2sun]

NOT all Muslims are terrorists! Like I said earlier in the thread--people are thinking with their hearts instead of their heads. That's just my opinion....

In the other thread, I extensively explained that I recognize the difference between Muslim Americans and terrorist Muslims and that they are not the same, but I feel that the Muslim Americans are not being sensitive to what the whole of America thinks about their decision to put the mosque there. And if they don't seem to care, I can see much of America not caring about them. And that's going backwards as far as minority's rights and tolerance in this country. I think they realize that concept and apparently don't care enough to stop. That makes me question their motives.

 

[Jed]

In the other thread, I extensively explained that I recognize the difference between Muslim Americans and terrorist Muslims and that they are not the same, but I feel that the Muslim Americans are not being sensitive to what the whole of America thinks about their decision to put the mosque there. And if they don't seem to care, I can see much of America not caring about them. And that's going backwards as far as minority's rights and tolerance in this country. I think they realize that concept and apparently don't care enough to stop. That makes me question their motives.

Fair enough.... but I give them the benefit of doubt. I hope I'm not wrong.... but like I said, I don't personally know enough about the actual people pushing this or their actual motives. Do you?

 

[Jed]

Haven't we been wrong before? Didn't we miss that beautiful Russian spy recently? Whatever Muslim (terrorist or not) build the mosque is not really the point...the point is that they are building it on/near/whatever a site that represents pain and sufferings of many many Americans.

Again, remember, i am against that idiot in FL who is gonna burn the Koran this Sa****ay. Now, that guy needs the CIA "cleaner" to visit.... :gun5:

People who do stuff like that are basically attention whores. I don't pay them much attention.... same with flag burners. Yeah, big deal....burn a flag or a bible or whatever. So what? What does he want, a cookie?

If he really wants attention, he should jump off a bridge during rush hour.

 

[dk27]

In the other thread, I extensively explained that I recognize the difference between Muslim Americans and terrorist Muslims and that they are not the same, but I feel that the Muslim Americans are not being sensitive to what the whole of America thinks about their decision to put the mosque there. And if they don't seem to care, I can see much of America not caring about them. And that's going backwards as far as minority's rights and tolerance in this country. I think they realize that concept and apparently don't care enough to stop. That makes me question their motives.

What part should they care about? The part that they are being classified as the same as Al-Qaeda or the part that many people are threatening violence towards them?

I think the point of "how close is too close" is an excellent one and who gets to decide this? If this was an Al-Qaeda tribute monument or worship center that would be one thing but it's not even close.

Muslims died in the attacks as well.

 

[brian2sun]

Fair enough.... but I give them the benefit of doubt. I hope I'm not wrong.... but like I said, I don't personally know enough about the actual people pushing this or their actual motives. Do you?

I don't know enough either, but the longer they go without making that info common public knowledge, the more I believe they are hurting their own civil liberties in the grand scheme of things. Then of course I have to ask why this doesn't seem to matter to them. If they put Islam before America, then I consider that a problem.

 

[Jed]

...If they put Islam before America, then I consider that a problem.

I'll tell you something---I bet the majority of Americans would put their religion before their country. I'm not particularly religious, so I don't include myself, but we are generally a country of religious people and I do believe that most people would definitely put religion before country.