NY Mosque Near Ground Zero

[Thai]

I got this in email:

"This is the most clearly stated, sensible, and historically accurate
statement on the proposed “Cordoba House” Mosque near Ground Zero


Newt Gingrich

There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.

The proposed "Cordoba House" overlooking the World Trade Center site – where a group of jihadists killed over 3000 Americans and destroyed one of our most famous landmarks - is a test of the timidity, passivity and historic ignorance of American elites. For example, most of them don’t understand that “Cordoba House” is a deliberately insulting term. It refers to Cordoba, Spain – the capital of Muslim conquerors who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world’s third-largest mosque complex.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West.
Today, some of the Mosque’s backers insist this term is being used to "symbolize interfaith cooperation" when, in fact, every Islamist in the world recognizes Cordoba as a symbol of Islamic conquest. It is a sign of their contempt for Americans and their confidence in our historic ignorance that they would deliberately insult us this way.
Those Islamists and their apologists who argue for "religious toleration" are arrogantly dishonest. They ignore the fact that more than 100 mosques already exist in New York City. Meanwhile, there are no churches or synagogues in all of Saudi Arabia. In fact no Christian or Jew can even enter Mecca. And they lecture us about tolerance.

If the people behind the Cordoba House were serious about religious toleration, they would be imploring the Saudis, as fellow Muslims, to immediately open up Mecca to all and immediately announce their intention to allow non-Muslim houses of worship in the Kingdom. They should be asked by the news media if they would be willing to lead such a campaign.

We have not been able to rebuild the World in nine years. Now we are being told a 13 story, $100 million megamosque will be built within a year overlooking the site of the most devastating surprise attack in American history. Trade Center

Finally where is the money coming from? The people behind the Cordoba House refuse to reveal all their funding sources. America is experiencing an Islamist cultural-political offensive designed to undermine and destroy our civilization. Sadly, too many of our elites are the willing apologists for those who would destroy them if they could.

No mosque. No self deception. No surrender.
The time to take a stand is now - at this site on this issue."

 

[Jed]

I live in NY, so this has been big news for weeks now. I'm not sure if people in the rest of the country have been hearing as much as we have about it.

BTW, I totally disagree with those words above. I'm not going to go into a long-winded debate about this, so I'll just say this: To deny a mosque near Ground Zero goes against everything we are as Americans. I'm not saying I want to see it happen, I'm just saying that fighting against it is inherently un-American. People are still thinking with their hearts instead of their heads.

There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia

There is no double standard. We are Americans. We should be better.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

The sin in the mosque debate to me is that it's an issue.

If we weren't so f'd up we'd have two new new beautiful towers there 3 years ago. Instead 10 years after there's a hole. If there were new shining towers, as there should be, who would give a crap about some 13-15 story whatever? The mosque isn't an issue for me. The Imam is a HUGE issue for me as is the support he's receiving from the Administration. If, after he's jailed, America loving Muslims want to build then whatever...


If the radicals try to build then I think they'd do better to spend their money elsewhere but we beat the Soviets by breaking them financially so maybe that's angle we need to pursue here. Get them to blow all their before one grain of dirt gets moved.

 

[BROOKLYN]

not going to go into a debate, but i was born and raised in ny and i am opposed of the mosque near Ground Zero.

 

[Mark86]

I personally know many people who lost loved ones and were scarred by the events that occurred on 9/11. I live in NJ, but I am a New Yorker at heart. I am 100% against the mosque being built near ground zero. NYC is a big place and there are many other places where this mosque could be built.

 

[Jed]

I personally know many people who lost loved ones and were scarred by the events that occurred on 9/11. I live in NJ, but I am a New Yorker at heart. I am 100% against the mosque being built near ground zero. NYC is a big place and there are many other places where this mosque could be built.

I don't want to see it either, but what about the Constitution? The 1st amendment? The 14th amendment? The Statement on Religious Liberty?

I'm not about to take sides against the Constitution because people are still hurting about 9/11. If this whole mosque thing happened 20 years from now, it would barely even make the news.

 

[Thai]

I don't want to see it either, but what about the Constitution? The 1st amendment? The 14th amendment? The Statement on Religious Liberty?

I'm not about to take sides against the Constitution because people are still hurting about 9/11. If this whole mosque thing happened 20 years from now, it would barely even make the news.

Sure, but common sense and RESPECT for 9/11 victims dictate otherwise. If you respect this country and what happened on 9/11, then why build it so close? There are things in life that you should just do or not do out of respect and common sense, even though it is lawful.

 

[Jed]

Sure, but common sense and RESPECT for 9/11 victims dictate otherwise. If you respect this country and what happened on 9/11, then why build it so close? There are things in life that you should just do or not do out of respect and common sense, even though it is lawful.

I agree...but for whatever the true reason, they want to build it there. Should they? Probably not. Can they? By law, yes. I'm not going to support anyone who infringes on their rights just because people feel that they shouldn't be building there. Much in the same way I wouldn't support anyone who goes against freedom of speech. There are things I don't particularly agree with, but people have the right to say them anyway. That's just the way I see it.

This can easily turn into a huge debate, but I'm not diving in any deeper than I already have, simply because this is so a huge issue.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

NYC Mosque


I agree that the Islamists (a true description of them) do indeed have a First Amendment right to construct their mosque on private property in that part of New York City. However, in my judgment, doing so would not be the proper thing to do. The old axiom about could and should comes into play here. They COULD do it, but SHOULD they? I think not.
:lightsaber:

Would the people who vocally support the building of this mosque so close to Ground Zero say the same thing if a neo-Nazi group sought to erect a giant swastika across the street from the Holocaust Museum in DC? What about the Sons Of Confederate Veterans purchasing property in Harlem across the street from Al Sharpton's office - where they would fly a giant Rebel flag?

Me thinks their opinion about supporting our First Amendment rights would reverse itself so quickly, that it would resemble a freight train trying to dig a dirt road backwards!
:toilet:

While we "rednecks" (I prefer the term 'Appalachian American', thank you.) are criticized for being intolerant of others, I would probably say that we might try putting the shoe on the other foot. It would be nice to see the "tolerant" Muslims reciprocate by permitting construction of a church, synagogue or chapel somehwere in Riyadh or Mecca. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, right? Okay....I won't hold my breath; but if they did that, the negative reaction by most of us in the USA might be placated if the Islamists put forth some tolerance towards outsiders on their turf.

:drummer:

 

[Jed]

Would the people who vocally support the building of this mosque so close to Ground Zero say the same thing if a neo-Nazi group sought to erect a giant swastika across the street from the Holocaust Museum in DC? What about the Sons Of Confederate Veterans purchasing property in Harlem across the street from Al Sharpton's office - where they would fly a giant Rebel flag?


:drummer:

If you don't see a difference between building a mosque near Ground Zero and erecting a giant swastika across from the Holocaust Museum or a giant Rebal flag in Harlem, then I don't think you have any basis to your argument. Sorry, but those are two horrible examples if you're trying make a valid comparison.

And for the record---I personally do not support a mosque near Ground Zero. I just support their right to do it. Just like I don't personally support your opinion in this thread, but I do support your right to say it.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Would the people who vocally support the building of this mosque so close to Ground Zero say the same thing if a neo-Nazi group sought to erect a giant swastika across the street from the Holocaust Museum in DC? What about the Sons Of Confederate Veterans purchasing property in Harlem across the street from Al Sharpton's office - where they would fly a giant Rebel flag?

well played, sir.

100% agree.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

If you don't see a difference between building a mosque near Ground Zero and erecting a giant swastika across from the Holocaust Museum or a giant Rebal flag in Harlem, then I don't think you have any basis to your argument. Sorry, but those are two horrible examples if you're trying make a valid comparison.

It is a bit of a stretch in the analogy department, but the logic is consistent. Many thousands of people would find it offensive to see a swastika near the Holocaust museum - of course - but the Nazis would still have the right to do it if they legally purchased adjacent property.....even if it would not be a wise choice. Same goes for the Rebels & their flag in Harlem.

Likewise, the Islamists have a right to build their mosque close to Ground Zero - but it is not (in my humble opinion) a wise thing to do.....and it WILL offend thousands.

Just as not all (heck, not even most) Southerners were not slave-owners and not all (or even most) Germans were stuffing Jews into ovens, the old "guilt by association" thing will apply. Many non-Muslims will conjure up images of terrorists and al Qaeda every time they see a call to prayer near Ground Zero. A lot of Americans (of every faith) will remember the video on CNN when Palestinian Arabs and others across the Middle East were dancing in triumph when word of the attacks against the USA reached them.

And for the record---I personally do not support a mosque near Ground Zero. I just support their right to do it. Just like I don't personally support your opinion in this thread, but I do support your right to say it.

That's pretty much where I stand, too. Unlike most of the Arab world, we still have a First Amendment right in this great nation!!


:boink:

 

[cknsls@adelphia]

It's called freedom!

It's my understanding that the new mosque cannot even be seen from ground zero. So it should be permitted as long as it falls within all current building codes.

This is America, they have a right to build where they choose. While Newt's speech is very colorful, this guy wants to be president and is pandering to the American public.

I speak from a perspective where I totally understand the situation. In my religion every time we build a new meeting house or temple, it's opposed more often than not for no good reasons what so ever.

It's the same here.

This reeks of so many things I don't even want to go there.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Of course they LEGALLY are allowed to do it. But there's a big difference between what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do...
Everyone knows it shouldn't be done. Even they do. It's being built in that specific spot to be spiteful.

 

[dk27]

If it's going to be denied for a Mosque than it needs to be denied for Christians, Mormons, and whoever else wants to build in that area.

A Mosque is only part of the project that is planned.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing...

"A mosque is, in fact, planned there, but it's part of a plan for a much larger, $100 million cultural center that includes a swimming pool, gym and basketball court, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, a library and art studios. Organizers say the center would be open to all New Yorkers, regardless of faith, and would promote cultural diversity. But the center would be geared toward "engaging New York's many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all.”

PolitiFact | Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate

Instead of everyone ganging up and hating on these people trying to do something that sounds overly positive why not start their own project. A Christian or non-demoninational cultural center? Everyone is so busy blasting hatred everywhere instead of doing something positive.

 

[cknsls@adelphia]

If it's going to be denied for a Mosque than it needs to be denied for Christians, Mormons, and whoever else wants to build in that area.

A Mosque is only part of the project that is planned.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing...

"A mosque is, in fact, planned there, but it's part of a plan for a much larger, $100 million cultural center that includes a swimming pool, gym and basketball court, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, a library and art studios. Organizers say the center would be open to all New Yorkers, regardless of faith, and would promote cultural diversity. But the center would be geared toward "engaging New York's many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all.”

PolitiFact | Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate

Instead of everyone ganging up and hating on these people trying to do something that sounds overly positive why not start their own project. A Christian or non-demoninational cultural center? Everyone is so busy blasting hatred everywhere instead of doing something positive.

Good post and link. As I said - it can't be seen from Ground Zero, nor is there a view to ground zero after completion.

 

[Jed]

... It's being built in that specific spot to be spiteful....

If you really believe that, then I can understand your position. But I don't believe that for a second.

 

[brian2sun]

I didn't realize Thai started a whole new thread on this until now. I've been going back and forth with chiplee on this for days now on another thread so I won't get into that, but I completely agree with the other's sentiments on this thread that "CAN do" and "SHOULD do" are totally different and that is something that EVERY American should understand. Those who don't undrstand that concept I believe will always have a hard time assimilating into and being accepted by the rest of the citizens here.

 

[Thai]

It's my understanding that the new mosque cannot even be seen from ground zero. So it should be permitted as long as it falls within all current building codes.

This is America, they have a right to build where they choose. While Newt's speech is very colorful, this guy wants to be president and is pandering to the American public.

I speak from a perspective where I totally understand the situation. In my religion every time we build a new meeting house or temple, it's opposed more often than not for no good reasons what so ever.

It's the same here.

This reeks of so many things I don't even want to go there.

Cannot be seen from ground zero? The point is that it is too close, whether that is actual distance or emotional. If your mosque center is about peace and loving all people, then why build something that is so controversial and hurtful for so many people???!! Shouldn't you pick a place that shows respect to those who died? Isn't that the best first step to take in trying to reconcile differences among religions, esp. after 9/11?? It is not rocket science folks...it is common sense.

For example, recently, Japanese PM Naoto Kan ordered his cabinet to avoid the controversial Yasukuni Shrine on the Aug. 15 anniversary of the end of WWII. It underscores his shift toward improving relations with Asian neighbors. “We feel deep regret, and we offer our sincere feelings of condolence to those who suffered and their families. We inflicted great damage and suffering on many nations during the war,” said Kan. That is how you make friends and make up for past injustices! You don't go and stump your feet on dead people's grave! (Yes, i know that the mosque is not within viewing distance whatnot, but you just don't do it out of common sense and respect.)

Although Newt may be running for Presidency, i have no idea...but isn't Obama doing the same by saying that he is OK with it? Isn't he also kissing butt the other side? What's the diff?

How is the opposition to building this mosque near 9/11 site for "no good reasons what so ever?"

I am opposed to this...and i have no religion. IT IS JUST NOT RIGHT. DISRESPECTFUL. I don't give a **** if it is lawful or not, YOU SHOULD NOT DO IT. Yeah, it is lawful to stomp on a man's grave, but you should not do it. Yeah, it is lawful to burn the American flag, but you should not do it. Yeah, it is lawful to burn the Bible, but you should not do it. Yeah, it is lawful to burn the Koran, but you should not do it. (And yes, i do oppose that crazy idiot in FL who is planning to burn the Koran on 9/11.)

 

[Jed]

I didn't realize Thai started a whole new thread on this until now. I've been going back and forth with chiplee on this for days now on another thread so I won't get into that, but I completely agree with the other's sentiments on this thread that "CAN do" and "SHOULD do" are totally different and that is something that EVERY American should understand. Those who don't undrstand that concept will always have a hard time assimilating into and being accepted by the rest of the citizens here. If we can't respect our own fellow citizens on an issue this close to so many's hearts, it shows to me that they will put religion ahead of America which is another debate entirely.

Take your thoughts one step further.... Yes, "can do" and "should do" are two very different things. I understand that. At the same time, if "they" choose to do it, then how are we showing respect for them and/or their rights? It's a double-edge sword. You can't say on one hand that people have to understand a concept in order to assimilate into society without also acknowledging that those very same people have to understand the other concept as well.

There are two separate parts of this issue: 1- do they have the right to do it, and 2- should they do it. From what I've heard on the news recently, most New Yorkers understand they they have the right to do it (and this is something that is part of their Constitutional rights, as mentioned in a recent poll), but the majority also feels they shouldn't do it. So where does that leave us? Well, we can be against it, but we shouldn't stand in their way if they decide to go through with the plan to build the mosque.