lildevil23
New member
Found this article on the web..i guess its the dealers not doing a good job..i once had a regular oil change at expressway for my camry and the dorks had replacement oil. The next day once the engine heated up..i could see fumes out of the bonnet..took the car directly back to the place..and demanded that they clean it..they did it without a quip..
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October 12, 2004
Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire?
By JEREMY W. PETERS
ETROIT, Oct. 8 - With barely 10,000 miles on the odometer of his 2003 Honda CR-V sport utility vehicle, the only thing Steve Elder expected to smell inside was that new- car scent.
But as he drove home after having the oil changed last December, his CR-V began to fill with smoke.
"So I got out, obviously, checked under the hood and saw flames coming out of the engine," said Mr. Elder, a 35-year-old financial planner from North Yarmouth, Me.
It was not long before the entire vehicle - and a pair of diamond earrings Mr. Elder had bought his wife for Christmas - were consumed by the fire.
Mr. Elder's vehicle was one of at least 60 new CR-V's nationwide to catch fire suddenly while on the road. In most cases, the vehicles had just been serviced for their first oil changes.
While no injuries have been reported, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has reopened and upgraded an investigation into the CR-V to determine what is making some of them suddenly burst into flames, in many cases destroying the vehicles. The expanded inquiry covers about 280,000 CR-V's in the 2003 and 2004 model years.
So far, the investigation has yielded nothing but finger-pointing, with Honda blaming dealerships for mishandling oil changes and consumer groups accusing the automaker of dodging responsibility.
"The core issue for us is the issue of improper installation of the oil filter," said a Honda spokesman, Andy Boyd. "There doesn't seem to be anything else that we can point to."
In the new phase of its investigation, the safety agency is looking beyond the oil filter to see what other factors could be contributing to the CR-V fires.
Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the agency, said, "In this instance, both N.H.T.S.A. and Honda initially thought it was merely a problem with not executing the oil change properly, and that there didn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with the vehicle."
Mr. Tyson added that while the agency had not found any evidence of a manufacturer's defect, the manufacturing and design of the CR-V are two of several subjects investigators are now studying.
Honda and the safety administration thought they had resolved the CR-V fires problem this summer. In July, the agency closed a preliminary investigation into fires involving 2003 model CR-V's after Honda said the problem was a result of faulty oil changes.
According to documents from the safety administration, Honda said that in many of the vehicles that caught fire, mechanics had either not properly installed a new oil filter seal or had failed to remove the factory-installed seal before putting in the new one.
With the two seals in place at one time, the new oil filter could not create enough suction to prevent oil from leaking out and spilling onto the car's hot exhaust system. With an improperly installed seal, oil could also seep out onto the exhaust system and cause a fire.
The documents show that the agency agreed that the problem originated at dealerships and service stations and had nothing to do with the CR-V's design.
Honda then sent letters to its dealers warning them of the potential fire hazard, and the agency stopped its inquiry.
The fires, however, did not stop.
From July 1 to Sept. 9, the date the safety administration reopened its investigation into the CR-V, the agency received reports of 18 more fires.
The new investigation, known as an engineering analysis, is the most exhaustive of the agency's safety inquiries. It is also looking at model year 2004 CR-V's because drivers have begun reporting fires in those models as well.
Mr. Tyson said the investigation could have several outcomes, ranging from no action to a recall.
Honda insists the fires are being caused by negligence on the part of mechanics and says it is not considering a voluntary recall.
"You can't recall the process of changing oil, and that really is the root problem as we see it today," Mr. Boyd said.
What is puzzling Honda engineers and other automobile experts who have been studying the fires is why they are occurring only in 2003 and 2004 models.
"There were no fundamental changes in the vehicle design from 2002 to 2003, yet we have seen this jump in the number of leaks, and in some cases fires," Mr. Boyd said.
Mr. Boyd said the last significant redesign to the CR-V was in 2001, but fires have only recently become a problem.
Some experts have argued that if the fault lies with mechanics, as Honda contends, any vehicle would be prone to the same problems as the CR-V.
"There's something Honda isn't telling the government about this vehicle," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.
Mr. Ditlow said the safety agency should order a recall if Honda refused to do one voluntarily. "This is an open-and-shut case, so the only question for us is, Why haven't they done a safety recall?"
Gregory Barnett, an automotive and heavy-truck consultant to the insurance industry who has written a book about vehicle fires, said the CR-V problem appeared to be a result of Honda's design and laziness on the part of mechanics.
The CR-V's oil filter, like those in models from many other automakers, is near the exhaust system, which increases the likelihood of a fire if the filter leaks, Mr. Barnett said. It is the mechanic's job to keep a leak from happening, he added.
"For somebody to change the oil and not check for a stuck gasket is just stupid," Mr. Barnett said. "I can't believe that Honda has had to send a letter out saying, 'Hey, guys, check for the oil filter gasket - you're setting cars on fire.' "
Some Honda mechanics disagree.
In a letter to Automotive News, Jonathan O'Brian, a Honda shop foreman in Princeton, N.J., said the close proximity of the oil filter to the exhaust system in the CR-V could not be overlooked.
"With oil changes being relegated to less-experienced technicians and the constant pressure to do the job quickly, what is simply a mess on any other car is potentially hazardous on a CR-V," he wrote.
Mr. O'Brian declined to comment further, saying his letter had made his superiors at Honda unhappy.
"I'm better off not saying anything," he said.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 12, 2004
Why Are Honda CR-V's Catching Fire?
By JEREMY W. PETERS
ETROIT, Oct. 8 - With barely 10,000 miles on the odometer of his 2003 Honda CR-V sport utility vehicle, the only thing Steve Elder expected to smell inside was that new- car scent.
But as he drove home after having the oil changed last December, his CR-V began to fill with smoke.
"So I got out, obviously, checked under the hood and saw flames coming out of the engine," said Mr. Elder, a 35-year-old financial planner from North Yarmouth, Me.
It was not long before the entire vehicle - and a pair of diamond earrings Mr. Elder had bought his wife for Christmas - were consumed by the fire.
Mr. Elder's vehicle was one of at least 60 new CR-V's nationwide to catch fire suddenly while on the road. In most cases, the vehicles had just been serviced for their first oil changes.
While no injuries have been reported, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has reopened and upgraded an investigation into the CR-V to determine what is making some of them suddenly burst into flames, in many cases destroying the vehicles. The expanded inquiry covers about 280,000 CR-V's in the 2003 and 2004 model years.
So far, the investigation has yielded nothing but finger-pointing, with Honda blaming dealerships for mishandling oil changes and consumer groups accusing the automaker of dodging responsibility.
"The core issue for us is the issue of improper installation of the oil filter," said a Honda spokesman, Andy Boyd. "There doesn't seem to be anything else that we can point to."
In the new phase of its investigation, the safety agency is looking beyond the oil filter to see what other factors could be contributing to the CR-V fires.
Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the agency, said, "In this instance, both N.H.T.S.A. and Honda initially thought it was merely a problem with not executing the oil change properly, and that there didn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with the vehicle."
Mr. Tyson added that while the agency had not found any evidence of a manufacturer's defect, the manufacturing and design of the CR-V are two of several subjects investigators are now studying.
Honda and the safety administration thought they had resolved the CR-V fires problem this summer. In July, the agency closed a preliminary investigation into fires involving 2003 model CR-V's after Honda said the problem was a result of faulty oil changes.
According to documents from the safety administration, Honda said that in many of the vehicles that caught fire, mechanics had either not properly installed a new oil filter seal or had failed to remove the factory-installed seal before putting in the new one.
With the two seals in place at one time, the new oil filter could not create enough suction to prevent oil from leaking out and spilling onto the car's hot exhaust system. With an improperly installed seal, oil could also seep out onto the exhaust system and cause a fire.
The documents show that the agency agreed that the problem originated at dealerships and service stations and had nothing to do with the CR-V's design.
Honda then sent letters to its dealers warning them of the potential fire hazard, and the agency stopped its inquiry.
The fires, however, did not stop.
From July 1 to Sept. 9, the date the safety administration reopened its investigation into the CR-V, the agency received reports of 18 more fires.
The new investigation, known as an engineering analysis, is the most exhaustive of the agency's safety inquiries. It is also looking at model year 2004 CR-V's because drivers have begun reporting fires in those models as well.
Mr. Tyson said the investigation could have several outcomes, ranging from no action to a recall.
Honda insists the fires are being caused by negligence on the part of mechanics and says it is not considering a voluntary recall.
"You can't recall the process of changing oil, and that really is the root problem as we see it today," Mr. Boyd said.
What is puzzling Honda engineers and other automobile experts who have been studying the fires is why they are occurring only in 2003 and 2004 models.
"There were no fundamental changes in the vehicle design from 2002 to 2003, yet we have seen this jump in the number of leaks, and in some cases fires," Mr. Boyd said.
Mr. Boyd said the last significant redesign to the CR-V was in 2001, but fires have only recently become a problem.
Some experts have argued that if the fault lies with mechanics, as Honda contends, any vehicle would be prone to the same problems as the CR-V.
"There's something Honda isn't telling the government about this vehicle," said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.
Mr. Ditlow said the safety agency should order a recall if Honda refused to do one voluntarily. "This is an open-and-shut case, so the only question for us is, Why haven't they done a safety recall?"
Gregory Barnett, an automotive and heavy-truck consultant to the insurance industry who has written a book about vehicle fires, said the CR-V problem appeared to be a result of Honda's design and laziness on the part of mechanics.
The CR-V's oil filter, like those in models from many other automakers, is near the exhaust system, which increases the likelihood of a fire if the filter leaks, Mr. Barnett said. It is the mechanic's job to keep a leak from happening, he added.
"For somebody to change the oil and not check for a stuck gasket is just stupid," Mr. Barnett said. "I can't believe that Honda has had to send a letter out saying, 'Hey, guys, check for the oil filter gasket - you're setting cars on fire.' "
Some Honda mechanics disagree.
In a letter to Automotive News, Jonathan O'Brian, a Honda shop foreman in Princeton, N.J., said the close proximity of the oil filter to the exhaust system in the CR-V could not be overlooked.
"With oil changes being relegated to less-experienced technicians and the constant pressure to do the job quickly, what is simply a mess on any other car is potentially hazardous on a CR-V," he wrote.
Mr. O'Brian declined to comment further, saying his letter had made his superiors at Honda unhappy.
"I'm better off not saying anything," he said.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top
