Official T4R "Firearms" thread
- Thread starter d3cypher
- Start date
Have you considered the M4X-30 or M4X-34 with patented DLOC from Alamo Four Star?
Alamo Four Star - M4X-30 with patented DLOC
This is a much better mount than Larue's, with more purchase area (i.e. it grips more rail), and it won't degrade your finish and/or Picatinny Rail like Larue throw levers...
I'm calling bullshit! That looks to be an article designed to inaccurately bash the 1911. IF they are having that many problems with all of their 1911's then I will guess to say that it is user error and they have no business being in the law enforcement business. I have had several different 1911's and daily carry one and never have I had an issue with any of mine. I wouldn't say I shoot a lot but I probably shoot more than the average person, I'll put about 500+ rounds out of my daily carry (kimber ultra CDP) per month.
My personal opinion as to why LEO's and military don't carry the 1911 is because of the cost and round capacity. A good 1911 is at least a grand, a good plastic pistol is half of that. 1911's carry 7-8 rounds, plastic 9mm's carry 15+ rounds.
I think that is an ad that is promoting the Smith&Wesson pistols and nothing more.
JBecker
New member
Hilton Yam is the man behind 10-8 performance. He knows his 1911's. Hackathorne and Vickers have also gone away from 1911's.
Not saying they aren't good, they just aren't the best choice for reliability and ease of maintenance anymore since the plastic guns have become so good.
Not saying they aren't good, they just aren't the best choice for reliability and ease of maintenance anymore since the plastic guns have become so good.
nevada
Senior Member
don't forget the PARA 15rd double stack 1911.
too bad I don't like .45 NOR the 1911, I think that would be a beast of a piece.
JBecker
New member
Even the guys on the 1911 forum agree.
Like it or not, a HK will go about 25,000 rounds before it needs to see an armorer. All they will do is replace the springs and inspect the pistol then return it to service. Nothing needs to be hand fitted, everything is drop in.
This makes sense for law enforcement and military use.
Vickers says the 1911 is an "enthusiasts" gun.
I agree as well
note: I carry a Glock daily for work, yet I am still a fan as I personally own thirteen full house custom 1911s (e.g. Novak and Springfield Professional) and three S-V Infinity Slide Tracker pistols for competitions and have also had numerous other 1911s and STI 2011s over the past two decades...
LandCruiser
New member
It's a ***** to be a shooting school/tactics/gun expert.
Glock, M&P, Sig (P250) have invested tons of cash selling their guns to LEOs and convincing that striker fired guns with garbage triggers and "close enough" accuracy are more than enough for police use.
So they pretty much find a guy like Vickers, Ayoob, Yam and pay him off (or threaten to stop supporting his LEO shooting clinics) unless he writes some glowing piece about the next polymer piece of trash that is the Second Coming. They don't want LEO's with their new, cheap, shoddy Glocks to have an expert tell them their guns are trash and to get a 1911, they want their officers to be taught how to take that plastic crap and do the best they can with it--even if it's a square peg in a round hole.
The pieces sound like some great coming out speech or political apology.
-I have shot/built/lived 1911s for the last 40 years
-Glock/SW has this new product and it's great
-I have seen MALFUNCTIONS
-These guns "with training" (the last bit of integrity they have left showing through) shoot as well as any 1911
-there's usually some BS about safety or reliability
-I [insert name here] endorse [insert product here] wholeheartedly, enclosed are my balls and integrity
Everyone is a whore these days, there's an entire industry selling striker fired trash that costs pennies on the dollar to make then shoved down the throats of LEOs at a huge discount--and eventually people will get used to guns with crap triggers and "good enough" accuracy, and won't think that failures with Sigs, Glocks, SW's, etc. are due to the "platform" like with 1911s. 30 years from now when they're peddling the "next best thing" the M&P's and Glocks will be gone, but the 1911 will still be there. There is a lot to be said about a gun that out of the box shoots well and true.
I feel bad being forced by a big company to become their shill, but we all gots to eat.
Glock, M&P, Sig (P250) have invested tons of cash selling their guns to LEOs and convincing that striker fired guns with garbage triggers and "close enough" accuracy are more than enough for police use.
So they pretty much find a guy like Vickers, Ayoob, Yam and pay him off (or threaten to stop supporting his LEO shooting clinics) unless he writes some glowing piece about the next polymer piece of trash that is the Second Coming. They don't want LEO's with their new, cheap, shoddy Glocks to have an expert tell them their guns are trash and to get a 1911, they want their officers to be taught how to take that plastic crap and do the best they can with it--even if it's a square peg in a round hole.
The pieces sound like some great coming out speech or political apology.
-I have shot/built/lived 1911s for the last 40 years
-Glock/SW has this new product and it's great
-I have seen MALFUNCTIONS
-These guns "with training" (the last bit of integrity they have left showing through) shoot as well as any 1911
-there's usually some BS about safety or reliability
-I [insert name here] endorse [insert product here] wholeheartedly, enclosed are my balls and integrity
Everyone is a whore these days, there's an entire industry selling striker fired trash that costs pennies on the dollar to make then shoved down the throats of LEOs at a huge discount--and eventually people will get used to guns with crap triggers and "good enough" accuracy, and won't think that failures with Sigs, Glocks, SW's, etc. are due to the "platform" like with 1911s. 30 years from now when they're peddling the "next best thing" the M&P's and Glocks will be gone, but the 1911 will still be there. There is a lot to be said about a gun that out of the box shoots well and true.
I feel bad being forced by a big company to become their shill, but we all gots to eat.
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bofa
New member
Agree with this and that's part of the reason I moved back to carrying a polymer instead of a 1911. That, the weight savings, and the advancements in ballistics for smaller caliber rounds.
LandCruiser
New member
Good polymer guns still cost a grand (HK).
Sig still sells a crap ton of alloy P22x series guns because they're considered to be better than their polymer cousins, and most are hammer DA/SA and double stack.
Beretta M9 anyone?
Let's just get it out there that it's money, money, money.
Glock sells their guns for DIRT ASS CHEAP prices and that's why they've managed to convince an entire generation that striker fired guns are the new gold standard by twisting the arms of shooting school instructors to say so.
bofa
New member
Well, I think you are combining the definition of "good" and what you consider your preferences in a firearm. A Glock, M&P, etc is suitable for what most people need for CWP as well as LEOs. It will go bang consistently, has minimal failures, will action in bad environments, and has reasonable accuracy in any capable hands. Money is always a factor though... no denying that.
LandCruiser
New member
I just wish people would be honest. A "modern" gun that shoots like a 1911 isn't a 450 dollar Glock or M&P sold to a LEO agency for 275-300 bucks (or less depending on the size of the department).
It's an 800-1000 dollar Sig, HK, FN, etc.
The 1911 is just being used as an easy target because it's not being made by any large manufacturer with LEO contracts or issued to anyone but the Marines. If Glock suddenly paid off one of their shills to go after the M9, Sig P229, or HK P30 guns there'd be an outrage--even if that's really what they want to. None of those guns would exist if striker fire and the trigger safety wasn't a huge compromise.
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LandCruiser
New member
On a final note, I'd believe Larry Vickers more if he was saying that the HK45 (the gun he helped design) is the reigning supreme 1911 replacement.
There is a method in shooting a 1911 style pistol properly. I've met some people who could not shoot a 1911 .45 out of the box...1911's are more sensitive to 'limp wristing' than other guns...that I noticed.
However, once you've learn to shoot a 1911 properly, you can shoot just about anything out there.
Also, the article seems a little contradicting to other gun reviews. Most articles I've read state that heavier guns are easier to shoot because of its mass (to dampen out recoil) and recover the sight line...
Also, in my opinion, not sure Mr. Browning meant his design to have such tight tolerances that many of the modern 1911's have. This design was originally meant to be a battlefield weapon which is a harsh environment.
However, once you've learn to shoot a 1911 properly, you can shoot just about anything out there.
Also, the article seems a little contradicting to other gun reviews. Most articles I've read state that heavier guns are easier to shoot because of its mass (to dampen out recoil) and recover the sight line...
Also, in my opinion, not sure Mr. Browning meant his design to have such tight tolerances that many of the modern 1911's have. This design was originally meant to be a battlefield weapon which is a harsh environment.
JBecker
New member
I called Sig and asked about this. They said that only the vendors that attended the shot show and registered for this promotion were able to offer it to their customers. The stores on military installations are ran by AAFES and they don't give a crap about that show so they don't offer that promotion.
I'm sure that most here know that the Beretta M9 is a standard army, navy and air force issued side arm. It gets a bad rep because a lot of the military M9's are used and abused and not taken care of. Also, most military does not get the funding to take their guys to the range often enough to become profecient with their main weapon, let alone their secondary. So, when someone shoots bad with the M9, they cannot blame themselves so they blame the pistol.
I have shot several thousand rounds through the M9 and it is an awesome pistol. I wouldn't mind owning one some day.
It does have one fault that I don't like about it though. I'm not a fan of the safety lever on it. Unless you're mindful of where your thumb is of your dominant hand then you run the risk of pushing the safety lever up on the slide while chambering a round. IF you don't pull the slide all the way back then the hammer will not lock back. This can be a dangerous scenario because when you release the slide forward and chamber a round, the hammer will fall forward too allowing a high possibility of having a unintended disharge. This happened inside of my aircraft while overseas. Luckily no one was hurt and the aircraft wasn't damaged because our customers have very good muzzle discipline. BUT... it's still a flaw that needs to be addressed.
LandCruiser
New member
How did this happen? The gun has a firing pin block/safety, so even if the hammer fell, the pin should NOT have moved.
If your thumb is sticking up at all while you rack the slide back, it will rotate the safety lever to the fire position. Think of holding the pistol in your right hand as if you're going to fire it. Your right thumb is laying just below the slide, but if your thumb is sticking up at all it can be just enough to take the pistol off of safe.
The hammer also has a half way safety stop too but that's only going to catch the hammer when the slide is fully forward. In this case the hammer follows the slide forward and has enough force to hit the firing pin simultaneously as the round is chambered.
All of this happens when the slide hasn't been pulled far back enough to lock the hammer to the rear but just far enough back to load a round from the mag.
