Official T4R "Firearms" thread

how much more is an actual beretta? cant be that much. id rather just pay a little more get the real thing.

in fact, ive been wanting a 96fs for a while now.

It is my understanding that the Taurus versions are licensed reproductions using the same specs in a factory that was actually set up by Beretta as part of it's contract with the Brazilian military. I've shot a 92FS and there's very little difference imo. There's nothing wrong with paying extra for a name, but there's no reason to spend the extra $$$ unless he really wants a Beretta.

ETA: I also just saw that Taurus is including a 1 year NRA membership with purchase, fwiw.
 
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It is my understanding that the Taurus versions are licensed reproductions using the same specs in a factory that was actually set up by Beretta as part of it's contract with the Brazilian military. I've shot a 92FS and there's very little difference imo. There's nothing wrong with paying extra for a name, but there's no reason to spend the extra $$$ unless he really wants a Beretta.

ETA: I also just saw that Taurus is including a 1 year NRA membership with purchase, fwiw.

if that's the case, then it should be fine.
perhaps Taurus has changed things, but the few ive had experience with in the past were enough to keep me away.
 
if that's the case, then it should be fine.
perhaps Taurus has changed things, but the few ive had experience with in the past were enough to keep me away.

I hear ya. I have the same feelings about Ruger. It seems once they lose our trust, they will never get it back.
 
Wow, Ruger, really?

Ruger has had QC troubles going back a few years, now. Sights crumbling on their 1911s, many of their polymer semis having magazine release issues which essentially brick the guns (SR45), abysmal QC on the LC9 and LCPs, creative reaming of revolver cylinders...

Ruger makes guns fast, releases them with known problems or doesn't bother to fully investigate them--this is a public beta test. Everyone says how "great" their customer service is, of course it would be when their guns are grenading on every forum.

Go handle an SR1911, fit and finish is terrible.
 
Ruger has had QC troubles going back a few years, now. Sights crumbling on their 1911s, many of their polymer semis having magazine release issues which essentially brick the guns (SR45), abysmal QC on the LC9 and LCPs, creative reaming of revolver cylinders...

Huh, the only Ruger I own is a revolver, works great, and I'd heard about their good CS as you say. Didn't realize about the other problems, thanks for the heads up.
 
My issue goes back about 6 or 7 years ago with the PT345. I could not make it through a full mag without it jamming. I tried all kinds of different ammo, even let others shoot it, and it kept happening. I sent it back to Ruger twice to repairs. Both times it came back a few weeks later with all the stuff supposedly done to it, but it still jammed. A gun that doesn't go bang is useless.
 
My new toy: Arsenal SAM7-SF

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It is my understanding that the Taurus versions are licensed reproductions using the same specs in a factory that was actually set up by Beretta as part of it's contract with the Brazilian military. I've shot a 92FS and there's very little difference imo. There's nothing wrong with paying extra for a name, but there's no reason to spend the extra $$$ unless he really wants a Beretta.

ETA: I also just saw that Taurus is including a 1 year NRA membership with purchase, fwiw.

This is what I understand as well. I've fired both the Taurus and the Beretta - several years apart mind you, but I don't remember any significant differences between the two.
 
This is what I understand as well. I've fired both the Taurus and the Beretta - several years apart mind you, but I don't remember any significant differences between the two.

There really aren't any.

If I were to buy any Taurus, the 92 clones are the only ones I'd get.
 
No 1911s?

Their 1911s are very poorly made and fitted. The checkering on the straps is terrible, the slide and frame fit is terrible, the rails are massive and jut out the bottom of the gun...

For the money of a Taurus 1911, I'd get a Springer Range Officer or an STI Spartan. The Range Officer is by far the best 1911 you can get sub 1000 dollars unless you get a good deal on a Colt.
 
need some schooling

Anyone want to take the time to explain to me the difference (besides length) between "mid length", "Carbine", and "rifle length" as well as Free float verses non free float. Descriptions of hand guards for AR's. Obviously I know they have different lengths but I'm more so curious in the difference of rifle setup for each of these. Is one better than the other is it a preference thing, performance gains/loses? etc. etc. need some schooling on this.

like bofa having issues with his order getting a carbine instead of mid length. He wanted mid length for a reason whats the info behind all this. please and thanks!
 
Anyone want to take the time to explain to me the difference (besides length) between "mid length", "Carbine", and "rifle length" as well as Free float verses non free float. Descriptions of hand guards for AR's.

I'm not trying to be curt or rude, but there are tons of good articles on this if you just Google. I know because it initially confused me as well.
 
Anyone want to take the time to explain to me the difference (besides length) between "mid length", "Carbine", and "rifle length" as well as Free float verses non free float. Descriptions of hand guards for AR's. Obviously I know they have different lengths but I'm more so curious in the difference of rifle setup for each of these. Is one better than the other is it a preference thing, performance gains/loses? etc. etc. need some schooling on this.

like bofa having issues with his order getting a carbine instead of mid length. He wanted mid length for a reason whats the info behind all this. please and thanks!

It's mostly preference but some claim there are mechanical and reliability differences with extreme use. The length really refers to the gas system used. Carbines are fine for most uses. Rifle length is often thought as the most reliable. Middies are the compromise when you don't want something as cumbersome as rifle length but they are thought to have better longevity and can handle auto usage better than carbines. Gas length can also ultimately influence your barrel length too. The reality of it is that most of us civilians will never realize the full benefits of any in particular, at least hopefully.

That said, when I buy something, I buy ahead of my current plans, which is why I waited so long for midlength and was quite pissed with what DSA pulled.

I will keep these carbines as range/project guns though and to try to get my wife shooting them. I still plan to get a midlength as my "primary" AR and will probably pick up a rifle length eventually too because I like having a variety to shoot.

As far as the handguards, they are basically designed to fit the barrel and gas system of the rifle. Free float just means that it doesn't attach to the barrel components and attaches just at the receiver. The theory there is it absorbs less stress from operating the weapon and allows less interference when aiming. You can also fit more accessories and extend grip positions by removing the front sight and adding a longer rail.

ETA: This is a very generalized, high level overview and not meant to inspire a raging debate. There are plenty of "which is better" and "what's the real difference" threads on some of the AR forums. They are highly entertaining and informative if you have time to read through.
 
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I'm not trying to be curt or rude, but there are tons of good articles on this if you just Google. I know because it initially confused me as well.

That too. There are some huge AR communities out there. Some are less welcoming than others though.
 
The original M16 had a 20" barrel and a rifle length gas tube. The M4 has a 14 1/2" barrel and a shorter, carbine length gas tube. The length of the gas tube and barrel are designed to work together to keep the action cycling appropriately.

If you build an AR with a 20" barrel, you need a rifle length gas tube. If you build an AR with a 14 1/2" barrel, then you need a carbine length gas tube.

The issue comes up when you build an AR with a 16" barrel (a "mid-length" barrel). Where is the gas hole in the barrel? If that barrel is setup for a carbine length gas tube, then it will run, but recoil may be snappier. As a result, most people building 16" ARs will use a "mid-length" gas tube (and a barrel with the gas hole in the location appropriate for that tube). A mid-length gas tube is, not surprisingly, longer than a carbine length tube and shorter than a rifle length tube. Using a mid-length gas tube should make a 16" barrel AR run smoother.

Standard handguards connect to the upper at the rear, and the barrel at the front. A sling swivel attached to the handguards (or directly to the barrel) can cause the bullet impact to shift, based on how much tension is put onto the sling.

Free-float handguards don't touch the barrel. They are supported solely by their connection to the upper. So a sling swivel attached to the handguard won't change the point of impact even if sling tension changes. Also, if the handguard expands and contracts with temperature changes, that won't affect barrel impact either. As a result, free-float handguards improve accuracy.

Free-float handguards started out in NRA/CMP Service Rifle competitions, where you use a tight sling on the seated and prone strings, and need consistent accuracy regardless of sling tension.
 
I tried to be patient... I've been more patient than even I expected. They did offer to have me return them for a refund and place another order (and wait until March or so) but I'm not going to sit around for another 4-5 months with just lowers. Plus they've lost my trust by changing the order without asking or communicating. Had I known it would end like this I would have just order from PSA months ago.

Delays are one thing. Underhandedness is completely different in my book.

do you remember who you were working with?

the customer service I got there was great. I wonder if it has to do with exactly who you're dealing with?
 
do you remember who you were working with?

the customer service I got there was great. I wonder if it has to do with exactly who you're dealing with?

No one in particular... basically whoever answered the phone, when they did answer. I spoke to a couple of people, male and female over the past 10 months. Don't get me wrong - they were all pleasant - but the result is what ticked me off and the last person I spoke to didn't seem all that interested in making it right. He just expected me to wait even longer.


Keep in mind, never once did they update or communicate delays with me. I had to call each time. I was originally told 3-4 months... then 6 months... then 7-8 months... which turned into 10 months. Plus on this final call he told me they haven't had midlengths since last year and won't until next March. This was the first I heard of that.


Competitors have had similar items in stock for months now. I passed on quite a few PSA deals that were actually in stock. The only reason I kept the order active was because I received my lowers, what 6 months ago, and preferred to have them match since that was the original intent.
 

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