Official T4R "Firearms" thread

[nevada]

No one in particular... basically whoever answered the phone, when they did answer. I spoke to a couple of people, male and female over the past 10 months. Don't get me wrong - they were all pleasant - but the result is what ticked me off and the last person I spoke to didn't seem all that interested in making it right. He just expected me to wait even longer.


Keep in mind, never once did they update or communicate delays with me. I had to call each time. I was originally told 3-4 months... then 6 months... then 7-8 months... which turned into 10 months. Plus on this final call he told me they haven't had midlengths since last year and won't until next March. This was the first I heard of that.


Competitors have had similar items in stock for months now. I passed on quite a few PSA deals that were actually in stock. The only reason I kept the order active was because I received my lowers, what 6 months ago, and preferred to have them match since that was the original intent.

hm, I wonder if there are different departments for complete firearms, and for parts?

I talked to the same person each time, and I was directed to him each time. they were busy as shit, and he was hard to get a hold of. I asked if there was anyone else that could help me, and was told no, he had to do it.

 

[bofa]

hm, I wonder if there are different departments for complete firearms, and for parts?

I talked to the same person each time, and I was directed to him each time. they were busy as shit, and he was hard to get a hold of. I asked if there was anyone else that could help me, and was told no, he had to do it.

Totally possible. When I called, it was the main number and I just asked to check the status of an order and was transferred. No mention of parts vs assembled components.

I also had to order different handguards which should be in tomorrow. Good thing those are relatively inexpensive and I didn't go with an expensive free float full rail or something. Hopefully I'll get everything put together over the weekend and find some time to get them sighted in and broken in by the end of the year.

 

[aha2988]

I'm not trying to be curt or rude, but there are tons of good articles on this if you just Google. I know because it initially confused me as well.

lol there is no way a simple google search could have explained this to me in better words than what's quoted below.

It's mostly preference but some claim there are mechanical and reliability differences with extreme use. The length really refers to the gas system used. Carbines are fine for most uses. Rifle length is often thought as the most reliable. Middies are the compromise when you don't want something as cumbersome as rifle length but they are thought to have better longevity and can handle auto usage better than carbines. Gas length can also ultimately influence your barrel length too. The reality of it is that most of us civilians will never realize the full benefits of any in particular, at least hopefully.

That said, when I buy something, I buy ahead of my current plans, which is why I waited so long for midlength and was quite pissed with what DSA pulled.

I will keep these carbines as range/project guns though and to try to get my wife shooting them. I still plan to get a midlength as my "primary" AR and will probably pick up a rifle length eventually too because I like having a variety to shoot.

As far as the handguards, they are basically designed to fit the barrel and gas system of the rifle. Free float just means that it doesn't attach to the barrel components and attaches just at the receiver. The theory there is it absorbs less stress from operating the weapon and allows less interference when aiming. You can also fit more accessories and extend grip positions by removing the front sight and adding a longer rail.

ETA: This is a very generalized, high level overview and not meant to inspire a raging debate. There are plenty of "which is better" and "what's the real difference" threads on some of the AR forums. They are highly entertaining and informative if you have time to read through.

The original M16 had a 20" barrel and a rifle length gas tube. The M4 has a 14 1/2" barrel and a shorter, carbine length gas tube. The length of the gas tube and barrel are designed to work together to keep the action cycling appropriately.

If you build an AR with a 20" barrel, you need a rifle length gas tube. If you build an AR with a 14 1/2" barrel, then you need a carbine length gas tube.

The issue comes up when you build an AR with a 16" barrel (a "mid-length" barrel). Where is the gas hole in the barrel? If that barrel is setup for a carbine length gas tube, then it will run, but recoil may be snappier. As a result, most people building 16" ARs will use a "mid-length" gas tube (and a barrel with the gas hole in the location appropriate for that tube). A mid-length gas tube is, not surprisingly, longer than a carbine length tube and shorter than a rifle length tube. Using a mid-length gas tube should make a 16" barrel AR run smoother.

Standard handguards connect to the upper at the rear, and the barrel at the front. A sling swivel attached to the handguards (or directly to the barrel) can cause the bullet impact to shift, based on how much tension is put onto the sling.

Free-float handguards don't touch the barrel. They are supported solely by their connection to the upper. So a sling swivel attached to the handguard won't change the point of impact even if sling tension changes. Also, if the handguard expands and contracts with temperature changes, that won't affect barrel impact either. As a result, free-float handguards improve accuracy.

Free-float handguards started out in NRA/CMP Service Rifle competitions, where you use a tight sling on the seated and prone strings, and need consistent accuracy regardless of sling tension.

Thanks guys that definitely clears things up. I currently have a carbine, free float setup on a 16in barrel. so it sounds like there isn't really much i need to change there to effect any performance unless i get picky about recoil and want to step into a mid length setup. Much appreciated

 

[Dawg4Runner]

Here's a pic showing a pistol length, carbine length, mid length and rifle length. The mid length (third one down) is my current build. It's going to be using a Wilson Combat matched billet upper/lower receiver, barrel, hand guard and lower parts kit. Other components will be a Geissele SSA-E two stage trigger, Battlecomp BABC muzzle brake, BattleArms short throw safety, Magpul UBR stock, MIAD grip and Troy BUIS. Just waiting for the receiver to arrive and clear FFL jail. Basically a copy of my Wilson Combat 5.56 except it'll be in 6.8 SPC, 14.7" barrel and full length hand guard. Undecided on glass at this time. I'll have to take a good look at the Trijicon VCOG when it hits the shelves.

 

[aha2988]

well here's my new love

I've yet to learn your mastery of photo's dawgrunner but I'll try lol and thanks for the picture comparison as well.

















still in awe that my wife actually purchased this for me for our anniversary. This is exactly how i would have put one together myself. The only that I'll probably switch out is the hand guards so i can extend the rail on the upper to allow room for a fold down 3x scope to go with the eotech 556 sight.

 

[Jumpkix]

Anyone here familiar with Noveske? Are they worth the price tag?

Supposedly they are some of the finest ARs out there, and they're made here in Oregon :guitar2:

 

[Dawg4Runner]

A couple of new toys recently added to my toy box. POF P-308 and a Franklin Armory XO-26.

I haven't decided on optics for the P-308 yet but still wanted to function test it (in other words I couldn't wait to shoot it). So I threw on a set of Larue/Troy BUIS and a Trijicon Reflex sight I had laying around. I Reflex sight was off by 12" high and 6" left at 200 yards so I just Kentucky windaged it (I had no intention of sighting it in, just function testing). Once I got the SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) down, it was tagging a 10" metal plate consistently at 200. When I went to clean it, with the exception with a couple tiny specs of brass, the BCG looked like it was unfired. Gotta love piston drive rifles!

The Franklin Armory XO-26 is just a blast to shoot. I decided to build it in .300 AAC Blackout. At first I was a little skeptical about this wildcat round. The more I learned about it and the more I shot it, the more I liked it. In it's current state, with an aim point T-1 micro dot and surefire light it's a perfect home defense weapon. The Battle Comp muzzle brake does a great job keeping the muzzle flat for followup shots.:AK47:

Also found the JP Enterprise Silent Captured Spring on sale so I went ahead and replaced the current spring/buffers on my AR's. Although they don't do anything to improve accuracy, they do get rid of that annoying "twang" sound and make the action run as smooth as butter. Well worth the price of admission.

Apologies for the grainy iPhone pics...

 

[Dawg4Runner]

Anyone here familiar with Noveske? Are they worth the price tag?

Supposedly they are some of the finest ARs out there, and they're made here in Oregon :guitar2:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes

Top notch stuff. Which one are you looking at?

 

[darkie3495]

Anyone here familiar with Noveske? Are they worth the price tag?

Supposedly they are some of the finest ARs out there, and they're made here in Oregon :guitar2:

I'm familiar with Noveske and yes, they are out of Grants Pass. They are known to manufacture some of the more accurate barrels available and their quality control is very stringent. Noveske is a premium name so it carries a higher than average price tag and with the passing of the owner earlier in the year, the demand/prices have gone up.

Now are they worth the price tag? That's really up to you and what your intended use is. Are you looking at a complete rifle or just parts?

 

[darkie3495]

Nice. Quick question, is your front sight on backwards? I haven't seen a front sight fold forward before.

I currently have a carbine, free float setup on a 16in barrel.

For reference, you unfortunately aren't running a free float rail as your hand guard is still making contact with your barrel as its using the gas block front ring to stay on.

To truly run a free float rail on your AR, you will either need to replace your gas block with a low profile, or shave down your existing gas block so a free float rail will fit.

For comparison, here is a carbine with the factory hand guard utilizing the gas block ring to hold it in place similar to your AR:


Here is the same carbine running a free float rail after shaving down the front sight where the rail is only attached to the upper receiver and does not make any contact whatsoever with the barrel/gas block:


Hope this helps.

 

[bofa]

And the twins are born... sorry, no good photos yet.

 

[aha2988]

Nice. Quick question, is your front sight on backwards? I haven't seen a front sight fold forward before.



For reference, you unfortunately aren't running a free float rail as your hand guard is still making contact with your barrel as its using the gas block front ring to stay on.

To truly run a free float rail on your AR, you will either need to replace your gas block with a low profile, or shave down your existing gas block so a free float rail will fit.

That's the position the front site was in when I received the rifle so i never questioned it. It may be put on that way because of the magpul hand guard being as tall as it is.

thanks for the clarification on the free float. I'm under the impression that this is a low profile gas block setup. Any way I can verify what type of gas block the gun has. It was built buy an individual and then sold to a gun and pawn where my wife came across it to make the purchase. I was told the gas block was modified or upgraded to have some affect on the front site but my wife didn't get enough info about it when she purchased the gun

 

[BlazeRunner]

For those questioning Noveske quality, or any other for that matter, here is a list comparing factory rifles from major manufacturers. Note these are specific models.
This is probably the only contribution to this thread I'll make. I don't feel comfortable posting my personal weapons online, unless I'm selling one.

 

[Dawg4Runner]

That's the position the front site was in when I received the rifle so i never questioned it. It may be put on that way because of the magpul hand guard being as tall as it is.

thanks for the clarification on the free float. I'm under the impression that this is a low profile gas block setup. Any way I can verify what type of gas block the gun has. It was built buy an individual and then sold to a gun and pawn where my wife came across it to make the purchase. I was told the gas block was modified or upgraded to have some affect on the front site but my wife didn't get enough info about it when she purchased the gun

You have a picatinny rail gas block. As to the height, it's hard to tell which height you have from the pic. It's either a receiver rail height or a standard height. My guess just from looking at the pic is standard. Either way, it's not a low profile. It looks similar to the Armalite rail gas block. Some examples of different heights BATTLE TESTED EQUIPMENT · Parts - gas blocks

If you're considering adding a 3X magnifier to your eotech then you're gonna need more rail real estate. There are plenty of hand guards with top rails out there to choose from. This one from YHM looks like it would fit your needs without having to change your current gas block. It's free floating plus it looks pretty cool too. MSRP is $192.50 if you buy directly from YHM but it just so happens that it's on sale right now at Primary Arms for $79.77

 

[darkie3495]

That's the position the front site was in when I received the rifle so i never questioned it. It may be put on that way because of the magpul hand guard being as tall as it is.

It probably doesn't affect your sight picture, just might be backwards when you decide to change elevation/re-zero.

thanks for the clarification on the free float. I'm under the impression that this is a low profile gas block setup. Any way I can verify what type of gas block the gun has. It was built buy an individual and then sold to a gun and pawn where my wife came across it to make the purchase. I was told the gas block was modified or upgraded to have some affect on the front site but my wife didn't get enough info about it when she purchased the gun

No worries. That's what this community is for...to share knowledge and help each others out.

Here is what a standard "low profile gas block" looks like:

And here it is inside the rail (photo courtesy of G&R Tactical):

This is probably the only contribution to this thread I'll make. I don't feel comfortable posting my personal weapons online, unless I'm selling one.

Thanks for posting the chart. Do you know if the OP is still maintaining this? I thought he abandoned the chart once he got kicked off of M4C over a year ago.

Also, you don't have to post any weapons to contribute to this thread as this isn't solely a place for pictures. :cheers:

 

[BlazeRunner]

Thanks for posting the chart. Do you know if the OP is still maintaining this? I thought he abandoned the chart once he got kicked off of M4C over a year ago.

Also, you don't have to post any weapons to contribute to this thread as this isn't solely a place for pictures. :cheers:

This was one of the last versions before it was unavailable, I just had it saved on my phone from a while ago and reference it occasionally.

 

[aha2988]

You have a picatinny rail gas block. As to the height, it's hard to tell which height you have from the pic. It's either a receiver rail height or a standard height. My guess just from looking at the pic is standard. Either way, it's not a low profile. It looks similar to the Armalite rail gas block. Some examples of different heights BATTLE TESTED EQUIPMENT · Parts - gas blocks

If you're considering adding a 3X magnifier to your eotech then you're gonna need more rail real estate. There are plenty of hand guards with top rails out there to choose from. This one from YHM looks like it would fit your needs without having to change your current gas block. It's free floating plus it looks pretty cool too. MSRP is $192.50 if you buy directly from YHM but it just so happens that it's on sale right now at Primary Arms for $79.77

It probably doesn't affect your sight picture, just might be backwards when you decide to change elevation/re-zero.



No worries. That's what this community is for...to share knowledge and help each others out.

Here is what a standard "low profile gas block" looks like:

And here it is inside the rail (photo courtesy of G&R Tactical):

Thanks for posting the chart. Do you know if the OP is still maintaining this? I thought he abandoned the chart once he got kicked off of M4C over a year ago.

Also, you don't have to post any weapons to contribute to this thread as this isn't solely a place for pictures. :cheers:

Thanks again guys, I definitely know what I'll be spending any christmas gift cards on this year haha. According to the Del-ton website the rifle I have came with a low profile gas block; however, the original owner put a standard height gas block on to add the front sight. So that's where I was getting my confusion. Well that and just really getting my eyes opened to the information.

 

[Jumpkix]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes

Top notch stuff. Which one are you looking at?

Sorry for the late reply. I've been in the market for a carbine length AR for a little while now, and was initially looking at the Colt LE 6920. But then I saw several Noveske rifles in the shop, and I was very intrigued. One model was the Afghan, and I can't remember what the other two were. But they were very impressive and you could easily tell they were well made.

I'm familiar with Noveske and yes, they are out of Grants Pass. They are known to manufacture some of the more accurate barrels available and their quality control is very stringent. Noveske is a premium name so it carries a higher than average price tag and with the passing of the owner earlier in the year, the demand/prices have gone up.

Now are they worth the price tag? That's really up to you and what your intended use is. Are you looking at a complete rifle or just parts?

I'm looking at a complete rifle, and am willing to spend money since this will be my first AR purchase.

For those questioning Noveske quality, or any other for that matter, here is a list comparing factory rifles from major manufacturers. Note these are specific models.
This is probably the only contribution to this thread I'll make. I don't feel comfortable posting my personal weapons online, unless I'm selling one.

I haven't really seen these tables much. Does this kind of mean that all of the AR's are being compared to BCM? They appear to have the most features.

 

[85straight]

Advice?

Hello my fellow Toyota lovers. Ive been wanting to obtain some firearms but in need of some advice on what direction i should take. I was wanting a small handgun for home and to take on camping trips. What make would most of you recommend for someone that has shot plenty of weapons from small pistols to ak's (surprisingly good aim too:50cal: ) , but has little knowledge of gun upkeep and makes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as it is the season to buy some cool shit. Thanks

 

[bofa]

Hello my fellow Toyota lovers. Ive been wanting to obtain some firearms but in need of some advice on what direction i should take. I was wanting a small handgun for home and to take on camping trips. What make would most of you recommend for someone that has shot plenty of weapons from small pistols to ak's (surprisingly good aim too:50cal: ) , but has little knowledge of gun upkeep and makes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as it is the season to buy some cool shit. Thanks

What do you consider small and what's your budget?