Official T4R "Firearms" thread
- Thread starter d3cypher
- Start date
ndcent
New member
Can you "read" much about a target as to give helpful advice to the shooter?
These are at 20' with my S&W M&P .40. A friend said maybe I'm not covering enough of the trigger up? I'd love to tear open those bullseye's and then work at more distance. Help a newb out.
Also I heard a commercial for the range I went to advertising it as Ohio's only five star shooting center. I don't know what that means exactly, but it was the nicest range I'd ever been to. Black Wing, super impressive.
These are at 20' with my S&W M&P .40. A friend said maybe I'm not covering enough of the trigger up? I'd love to tear open those bullseye's and then work at more distance. Help a newb out.
Also I heard a commercial for the range I went to advertising it as Ohio's only five star shooting center. I don't know what that means exactly, but it was the nicest range I'd ever been to. Black Wing, super impressive.
bofa
New member
Righty or lefty?
If righty, he could be correct that you are pushing the trigger (too little finger). Also make sure you are focusing on the sites correctly and maintaining the look throughout your action. .
This article is a pretty good guide to beginner troubleshooting.
How to Cure Common Shooting Mistakes - Handguns
ndcent
New member
Righty.
Thanks for the link.
The range most convenient to me which I enjoy has some personal training for $15 hour, seems a steal compared to ammo. They also have some three hour defensive shooting class with all kinds of scenarios, etc for $95 if you have your ccw. Totally doing it in March!
Thanks for the link.
The range most convenient to me which I enjoy has some personal training for $15 hour, seems a steal compared to ammo. They also have some three hour defensive shooting class with all kinds of scenarios, etc for $95 if you have your ccw. Totally doing it in March!
whiskey_fish
New member
Meet Natalya
This is my newest baby... Natalya: a USSG MP310 which is really an imported Baikal IZH-27. I had shot my fathers my whole childhood and my wife bought me my very own for a wedding gift. I had over 20k rounds in dad's I figure and now in mine I'm over 2k since October. She's ugly, but flawless. She also defends our home and our chicken coop.
And had my best day of pheasants this year first time out with this gun. Must be lucky too.
This is my newest baby... Natalya: a USSG MP310 which is really an imported Baikal IZH-27. I had shot my fathers my whole childhood and my wife bought me my very own for a wedding gift. I had over 20k rounds in dad's I figure and now in mine I'm over 2k since October. She's ugly, but flawless. She also defends our home and our chicken coop.
And had my best day of pheasants this year first time out with this gun. Must be lucky too.
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JBecker
New member
Can you "read" much about a target as to give helpful advice to the shooter?
These are at 20' with my S&W M&P .40. A friend said maybe I'm not covering enough of the trigger up? I'd love to tear open those bullseye's and then work at more distance. Help a newb out.
Also I heard a commercial for the range I went to advertising it as Ohio's only five star shooting center. I don't know what that means exactly, but it was the nicest range I'd ever been to. Black Wing, super impressive.
It appears as if you have a few problems going on. The low shots indicate you are anticipating the shot and pushing the gun as you break the trigger. It's one of the most common problems people have with handguns. The left shots look to me like you actually have too much finger on the trigger. When you press to the rear with too much finger on the trigger it will push you left (as a righty). Try to use just the pad of your finger, too close to the tip, or too close to the first knuckle will push you off target during follow through.
My advice would be to seek formal training from a reputable instructor. If you post your location we could help you find a good outfit.
In the mean time, you can practice your dry fire and work on getting a clean press to the rear every time with no wiggle of the front sight. This is easy to do at home on the couch. Also next time at the range load up a few snap caps randomly in your magazines, and work on that recoil anticipation. It will become very obvious when you push the gun low.
Also a .22lr pistol can be a great tool to get your pistol marksmanship up. They make a .22lr version of your M&P as well. Ammo is cheap, and the guns are too.
Shooting handguns can be very tricky as you are shooting a 1.5 pound gun with a 6 pound trigger pull. It take a lot of work to get good at it, especially a striker fired gun like yours.
bofa
New member
Too much finger on the trigger usually results in the shots going right, not left.
Good tips otherwise.
One thing neither of us mentioned is fatigue. New shooters need to build up finger strength or else their control drops off significantly after a few mags no matter how hard they try. I would recommend lots of dry-firing (M&P should be okay for that - for anyone else reading, not all guns handle dry-firing well), grip master, or just plain ol' fashioned repetition at the range.
Can you "read" much about a target as to give helpful advice to the shooter?
These are at 20' with my S&W M&P .40. A friend said maybe I'm not covering enough of the trigger up? I'd love to tear open those bullseye's and then work at more distance. Help a newb out.
Also I heard a commercial for the range I went to advertising it as Ohio's only five star shooting center. I don't know what that means exactly, but it was the nicest range I'd ever been to. Black Wing, super impressive.
Looks like a problem with your grip. Too much pressure from your right hand and not enough with your left. When you pull the trigger your right hand is tightening as we'll causing your shots to go left and a little down on that first target.
On the second it looks like your "palming" a little. Too much pressure from your right palm causing shots to go up and left.
Pressure should be 30% right 70% left.
JBecker
New member
Too much finger on the trigger usually results in the shots going right, not left.
Good tips otherwise.
One thing neither of us mentioned is fatigue. New shooters need to build up finger strength or else their control drops off significantly after a few mags no matter how hard they try. I would recommend lots of dry-firing (M&P should be okay for that - for anyone else reading, not all guns handle dry-firing well), grip master, or just plain ol' fashioned repetition at the range.
Yeah I think I got mixed up when I posted that.
Something else to consider would be one of those laser cartridges for dry fire practice. I have one and I will sit on the couch and shoot back and forth between light sockets. It's easier on a hammer fired gun because you don't have to rack the slide to cock the firing mechanism like a striker fired, but it's still doable with what you have.
Or you could pick up a SIRT pistol. I've still been meaning to get one.
http://www.shop.sirttraininggun.com/main.sc?gclid=CKu8v96ntbwCFQjxOgodO1sASg
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montana_jeepn
New member
REM 700 Action - trued/blueprinted .308
Fitted custom fluted bolt
1/10 twist stainless 18.5" barrel
Accuracy International 2.0 folding stock - hydro dipped ATACS (before it was cool)
Leupold 8.5x24 50mm FFP
Custom titanium rings
Badger base
Harris bipod pictured, but I have a AI one now.
YHM .308 suppressor with Q.D.
10rd AI mag
She was originally a Rem 700 5R Stainless that was shooting less than 1/2 moa at 100yds.....of course I wanted more.
I did the initial break in when i was in Florida, but haven't shot her since. Excited to see what she'll do.Does anyone here own one of the Savage Axis rifles? They are 300$ or less and shoot like any other Savage (amazing). I got to shoot one at the range a couple days ago, and I have to say, I cannot see buying any other bolt action rifle! Savage Rifle's out of the box accuracy is better than a lot of custom guns I have seen. There was a younger guy there with a heavily modded Remington 700 talking smack the entire 3 hours I was there, and his rifle wasn't shooting groups half the size of the little 300$ Savage! I use to have a Savage Model 10FP LE that shot ridiculously well, but this little Axis was very impressive. I may have to grab me one next time I'm in Walmart!
Any one who owns one, please chime in with your opinions.
Any one who owns one, please chime in with your opinions.
LandCruiser
New member
I always hate the difference between the immediate gratification of buying a gun you kind of like, or commissioning a build and waiting 1-2 years to have it done.
LandCruiser
New member
I just dry fire at the TV with snap caps, I use the A-zoom/Pachmayr type. Probably in any given evening I can dry fire 200-300 times.
RiFF RaFF
New member
So... I'm faced with a pretty tough decision. I recently picked up a H&K P30 V3. I absolutely love this pistol in regards to how it feels in my hands. I like the ergonomics of it and where all the parts feel natural to access while holding the pistol without me feeling like I'm compromising the grip on the pistol.
But...
I just cannot get accurate with it. I have dry fired the pistol quite a few times with snap caps and have put about 500 rounds through it. Within those 500 rounds I cannot tell a difference from my 1st round to my last round. I have shot most of those rounds in DA mode since it's the hardest and takes the most skill. I am more accurate in SA mode though. I know that 500 rounds isn't a lot but this trigger on this pistol is really kicking me in the rear and making me feel like a nug with a pistol. My shot group is anywhere from 6-12" spread at 7 yards with the occasional "lucky" shot in the center of the target. All my ammo shot through this has either been remington umc or winchester white box. Not the greatest ammo but still should be more than accurate at a whopping 7 yards.
How many rounds or how many hours of practice do you guys put into a pistol before you throw in the towel and decide that a certain pistol isn't for you? I am in no way faulting the pistol, I know H&K makes a solid product but there are some things that aren't for everybody.
Anyways, I have contemplated getting rid of it and going with a Springfield XDM 9mm comp pistol. I have a standard size xdm and I love it. The trigger is pretty good right out of the box. The review on the 5.25 comp pistol from hickock45 really makes me want one.
What says the shooters here? Give it more time or throw in the towel on it and find something that I can shoot better right off the bat?
But...
I just cannot get accurate with it. I have dry fired the pistol quite a few times with snap caps and have put about 500 rounds through it. Within those 500 rounds I cannot tell a difference from my 1st round to my last round. I have shot most of those rounds in DA mode since it's the hardest and takes the most skill. I am more accurate in SA mode though. I know that 500 rounds isn't a lot but this trigger on this pistol is really kicking me in the rear and making me feel like a nug with a pistol. My shot group is anywhere from 6-12" spread at 7 yards with the occasional "lucky" shot in the center of the target. All my ammo shot through this has either been remington umc or winchester white box. Not the greatest ammo but still should be more than accurate at a whopping 7 yards.
How many rounds or how many hours of practice do you guys put into a pistol before you throw in the towel and decide that a certain pistol isn't for you? I am in no way faulting the pistol, I know H&K makes a solid product but there are some things that aren't for everybody.
Anyways, I have contemplated getting rid of it and going with a Springfield XDM 9mm comp pistol. I have a standard size xdm and I love it. The trigger is pretty good right out of the box. The review on the 5.25 comp pistol from hickock45 really makes me want one.
What says the shooters here? Give it more time or throw in the towel on it and find something that I can shoot better right off the bat?
LandCruiser
New member
I sold a P30L for this same reason. I'm a very good shot and I was getting shotgun scatters with it.
The reason I bought it was that it's virtually identical to the HK45. Both guns were DA/SA and came with the safety/decocker (I get confused with variants because they're not the same across model lines).
The HK45 has a long, but cleanly and reliably breaking trigger pull in DA and a reasonably short and cleanly breaking trigger in SA.
The P30L had a long trigger pull that was spongy and didn't break cleanly in SA or DA. I think that's what killed it for me.
Still have the HK45.
LandCruiser
New member
500-600. I just got tired of it.
It wouldn't handle 115gr wimp ammo without malfunctioning (stovepipes, failure to lock slide, etc).
I bought a SA 9mm RO to replace it.
I did some reading yesterday and a little over the weekend after a discouraging range day last Friday. I refreshed my memory on trigger fundamentals. I may have gotten a little lazy since all of my pistols (until this one) that I primarily shoot are all SA pistols with a short and crisp trigger. With this long DA trigger the fundamentals are so much more important. I dry fired a few hundred times yesterday so this weekend I'll go to the range again. I'll continue to dry fire throughout the week. If I don't see any improvement this weekend then I think it will be time to say good bye to my beloved H&K. I wouldn't mind trading it for a full size 1911 either... I love the 1911 platform.
Dawg4Runner
New member
500 rounds and you're still not shooting well because of the trigger then the simple fix is to go with what you're comfortable with. If you already have an XDM and you like it and are comfortable with it, then that would be a good direction to go in. Or go with a Glock. Personally, I hate long trigger pulls and long resets. My DA/SA semi autos end up sitting in the safe because of that.
My HK P2000sk came in V2 which is DA/SA. I hated the first shot DA so I converted them over to V1. With the V1, the trigger spring is preloaded when you rack the slide. So when you pull the trigger, you're not fighting the pressure of the trigger spring. Every shot from the first to the last has a consistent trigger pull. With the conversion I went from a trigger pull average of 8lbs 11ozs to an average of 4lbs 10ozs.
Just another option if you decide to keep the P30. Here's a write up on it.
How to convert a V3 (DA/SA) P30/P30L to a V1 or V2 LEM
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