Oil Change, How Long???
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Pitbull
What does OCI mean and what does UOA mean, I pretty sure I know what they mean from reading the site but don't know actually what they stand for, please inform me
As for the VQ, I don't know what Nissan sites you visit the VQ site you mention is that the VQpower or something like that their are tons of Nissan sites, has to be among the biggest online communities next to Mustang and Camaro sites
: anyways I know from the few Nissan sites I go to that most of the VQ guys favor the M1, same opinions read on this board are on those board but those VQ guys really get emotional when it come to running premium
The VQ is a solid engine and I know Nissan recommends 3750 or 7500 changes, where Toyota recommends 5000 and 7500, what makes them come up with certain numbers, Toy dealers say change every 3k but the Lex dealer says every 5k cause thats what the manual says, when I asked them why not 3k they replied with we do what the manurfacture says but at Toyota it's like asking a bunch of 1st graders their all over the place, the Nissan dealer always said 3750 so I never questioned it and just changed my oil every 5k:
I have 16000 miles on the 4.7 and I think that thing is hard on oil, I need to read more on Bob the oil Guy cause right now I would say 5k with mobil drive clean is not the route to go 3k might be it's limit, I drain my oil then pour it into a t-shirt and after 5k with drive clean their was more metal particles then I wanted to see, I mean it was like bread crumbs on the bottom of the pan ( this was when I changed the oil at 15k after 5000 miles), maybe they never came out with the 1st few changes, I just changed my oil with a 1000 miles on the drive clean and their was tiny shavings am I looking to close cause these things freak me out, Im gonna see if the M1 makes big improvement on the amount of metal coming out of my engine, maybe I drive to hard, pedal to the floor and it hits redline often.
To give you an idea of the size, it would be like if you broke the tip off a pencil, but think like 20 broken tips, what is it are the cams to soft, I've seen Camaros with so much power they eat throught the cams like corn on the cob.
I've never abused my engines infact I always thought I changed the oil to often, never burned oil or blew smoke, maybe I look into things to much cause my friends never change their oil and put 100k or more on their cars no problem, maybe it's cause they don't care
What does OCI mean and what does UOA mean, I pretty sure I know what they mean from reading the site but don't know actually what they stand for, please inform me
As for the VQ, I don't know what Nissan sites you visit the VQ site you mention is that the VQpower or something like that their are tons of Nissan sites, has to be among the biggest online communities next to Mustang and Camaro sites
: anyways I know from the few Nissan sites I go to that most of the VQ guys favor the M1, same opinions read on this board are on those board but those VQ guys really get emotional when it come to running premium The VQ is a solid engine and I know Nissan recommends 3750 or 7500 changes, where Toyota recommends 5000 and 7500, what makes them come up with certain numbers, Toy dealers say change every 3k but the Lex dealer says every 5k cause thats what the manual says, when I asked them why not 3k they replied with we do what the manurfacture says but at Toyota it's like asking a bunch of 1st graders their all over the place, the Nissan dealer always said 3750 so I never questioned it and just changed my oil every 5k
: I have 16000 miles on the 4.7 and I think that thing is hard on oil, I need to read more on Bob the oil Guy cause right now I would say 5k with mobil drive clean is not the route to go 3k might be it's limit, I drain my oil then pour it into a t-shirt and after 5k with drive clean their was more metal particles then I wanted to see, I mean it was like bread crumbs on the bottom of the pan ( this was when I changed the oil at 15k after 5000 miles), maybe they never came out with the 1st few changes, I just changed my oil with a 1000 miles on the drive clean and their was tiny shavings am I looking to close cause these things freak me out, Im gonna see if the M1 makes big improvement on the amount of metal coming out of my engine, maybe I drive to hard, pedal to the floor and it hits redline often.
To give you an idea of the size, it would be like if you broke the tip off a pencil, but think like 20 broken tips, what is it are the cams to soft, I've seen Camaros with so much power they eat throught the cams like corn on the cob.
I've never abused my engines infact I always thought I changed the oil to often, never burned oil or blew smoke, maybe I look into things to much cause my friends never change their oil and put 100k or more on their cars no problem, maybe it's cause they don't care
UOA - Used oil analysis OCI-Oil change interval, My Toyota owners manual states OCI at 5K miles nothing else. Where do you read 5K-7.5K? I guess a benefit of having the dealer do the oil changes is I don't freakout seeing chunks of metal in my oil. I bet your wife beats you as$ when she does your laundry and sees all that oil on your T-shirt.
Edge, sounds like you should get a UOA done right away. There should never be any visible particles in your oil.
The 2UZFE engine is not hard on oil. We tore one apart with 300k miles in a Tundra that was used for towing, sometimes over the factory limits. The tear dow was prompted because the pickup was totaled in an accident and we wanted to look. It was a standard engine connected to a 4speed auto and received 5k oil changes with a good 5w-30 synthetic. It was interesting to see the inside, but, now I wish we would have left it alone. We reassembled it with gaskets, and seals, no new parts, no rings, no valves, nothing. It runs great. The main and rod bearing, camshaft showed no abnormal wear.
This mileage was put on in 2 years 7 months, about half the time towing 2 to 3 thousand pounds and about a 10 percent of the towing at 6k to 6.5k pounds and more. A couple of things that may have helped are that all mileage was in California, Arizona and Nevada with monthly trips between San Diego and Houston, Texas. In other words, mostly good weather and highways speeds with short runs on dirt roads, always with one of only three drivers.
If you have read this far I will relate some more details. The cooling system had a coolant filter that filters the fluid, has a sacrafical anode and add on chemicals built in (cost $129 + three filters at $12 each). The inside of what was left of the radiator looked absolutely brand new. Next, it used Mobil 1 M1-209 filters, changed every 5k miles. Last was an Oil Guard bypass filter (cost with install $200) with changes every 10k miles at $13 each). Last the oil was changed every 10k miles (cost about 7qts (oil guard takes about 1 qt) at $700/qt- Red Line Oil). The biggest mileage miss on oil changes was less than 500 miles, none right on the button with a usual gap of 200/300 miles early or late.
None of this stuff is scientific, mostly practical application by a customer that has other expensive rolling stock.
Good records were kept and the mileage was between 14 and 18 mpg, regular gas only. The day after the accident the owner bought a new Tundra.
Sorry about all the info, but I could not let a comment pass about the 4.7 engine being tender.
As a final note, this may help with the question of regular gas or not. This truck
pulled a 6k load up Moutain Springs Grade in east San Diego County on 100+ days from sea level to almost 4k feet in less than 5 miles. No problems, just foot to the floor all the way to the top, every trip.
The 2UZFE engine is not hard on oil. We tore one apart with 300k miles in a Tundra that was used for towing, sometimes over the factory limits. The tear dow was prompted because the pickup was totaled in an accident and we wanted to look. It was a standard engine connected to a 4speed auto and received 5k oil changes with a good 5w-30 synthetic. It was interesting to see the inside, but, now I wish we would have left it alone. We reassembled it with gaskets, and seals, no new parts, no rings, no valves, nothing. It runs great. The main and rod bearing, camshaft showed no abnormal wear.
This mileage was put on in 2 years 7 months, about half the time towing 2 to 3 thousand pounds and about a 10 percent of the towing at 6k to 6.5k pounds and more. A couple of things that may have helped are that all mileage was in California, Arizona and Nevada with monthly trips between San Diego and Houston, Texas. In other words, mostly good weather and highways speeds with short runs on dirt roads, always with one of only three drivers.
If you have read this far I will relate some more details. The cooling system had a coolant filter that filters the fluid, has a sacrafical anode and add on chemicals built in (cost $129 + three filters at $12 each). The inside of what was left of the radiator looked absolutely brand new. Next, it used Mobil 1 M1-209 filters, changed every 5k miles. Last was an Oil Guard bypass filter (cost with install $200) with changes every 10k miles at $13 each). Last the oil was changed every 10k miles (cost about 7qts (oil guard takes about 1 qt) at $700/qt- Red Line Oil). The biggest mileage miss on oil changes was less than 500 miles, none right on the button with a usual gap of 200/300 miles early or late.
None of this stuff is scientific, mostly practical application by a customer that has other expensive rolling stock.
Good records were kept and the mileage was between 14 and 18 mpg, regular gas only. The day after the accident the owner bought a new Tundra.
Sorry about all the info, but I could not let a comment pass about the 4.7 engine being tender.
As a final note, this may help with the question of regular gas or not. This truck
pulled a 6k load up Moutain Springs Grade in east San Diego County on 100+ days from sea level to almost 4k feet in less than 5 miles. No problems, just foot to the floor all the way to the top, every trip.
TeryT
New member
Larry said: "As a final note, this may help with the question of regular gas or not. This truck pulled a 6k load up Moutain Springs Grade in east San Diego County on 100+ days from sea level to almost 4k feet in less than 5 miles. No problems, just foot to the floor all the way to the top, every trip."
Thanks for putting my fears about the 4.7 somewhat to rest. You didn't say in the above quote, what grade of gas was used on those climbs. BTW - you said foot was to the floor, but how fast did it pull then?
Also, was there an add-on tranny cooler?
Thanks for putting my fears about the 4.7 somewhat to rest. You didn't say in the above quote, what grade of gas was used on those climbs. BTW - you said foot was to the floor, but how fast did it pull then?
Also, was there an add-on tranny cooler?
Pitbull
UOA, ok I think I knew that but what page does it say in the owners manual about 5k intervals what page, only cause I have this blue book called Passport to Performance, 2003 Scheduled Maintenance and in their it says 5000miles or 7500miles:
The girlfriend does not freak out, she makes me do her laundry
well at least she cooks: but the giant chunks of metal where still pretty big, bigger then I ever want to see but their more like big shavings, still pencil tip size, I know it is not just me cause when I worked in several dealers and did plenty of oil changes on cars you would be amazed at all the metal that was on the bottom of the 5 gallon container.
Maybe Im to extreme, I strain my oil through a t-shirt and use magnets:arrow:
Larry
I am ordering those UOA kits from Blacklab, cause I want to know whats actually going on in the engine and how the oil is breaking down, Im not the only 1 who went with what Toyota said and changed my oil with dino juice every 5k so what about all the other Toyota or Lexus owners that do 5k intervals on dino.
Am I worried not really cause I've seen GM trucks after the 1st oil change that have magnet tip drain plugs and those things have a half inch of metal particles stuck to the edge, and the 1st 3 changes nothin really came out, maybe my problem is I look to close or I should stop playing in the used oil.
Now I have no problems with the 4.7, I was just trying to figure out where these particles where coming from, and I think kaneman posted something about metal particles after an oil change.
I read your whole post about the Tundra and very good but he used synthetic, what about owners who do the same with non synthetic with 5k intervals their is no way they are getting the same protection from their dino oil.
The truck has M1 in it now with a Toy filter, I changed out the Mobil Drive Clean after only 1000 miles and I will do a UOA on the next change
UOA, ok I think I knew that but what page does it say in the owners manual about 5k intervals what page, only cause I have this blue book called Passport to Performance, 2003 Scheduled Maintenance and in their it says 5000miles or 7500miles
: The girlfriend does not freak out, she makes me do her laundry
well at least she cooks: but the giant chunks of metal where still pretty big, bigger then I ever want to see but their more like big shavings, still pencil tip size, I know it is not just me cause when I worked in several dealers and did plenty of oil changes on cars you would be amazed at all the metal that was on the bottom of the 5 gallon container.Maybe Im to extreme, I strain my oil through a t-shirt and use magnets:arrow:
Larry
I am ordering those UOA kits from Blacklab, cause I want to know whats actually going on in the engine and how the oil is breaking down, Im not the only 1 who went with what Toyota said and changed my oil with dino juice every 5k so what about all the other Toyota or Lexus owners that do 5k intervals on dino.
Am I worried not really cause I've seen GM trucks after the 1st oil change that have magnet tip drain plugs and those things have a half inch of metal particles stuck to the edge, and the 1st 3 changes nothin really came out, maybe my problem is I look to close or I should stop playing in the used oil.
Now I have no problems with the 4.7, I was just trying to figure out where these particles where coming from, and I think kaneman posted something about metal particles after an oil change.
I read your whole post about the Tundra and very good but he used synthetic, what about owners who do the same with non synthetic with 5k intervals their is no way they are getting the same protection from their dino oil.
The truck has M1 in it now with a Toy filter, I changed out the Mobil Drive Clean after only 1000 miles and I will do a UOA on the next change
Edge, my 2004 manual only shows 5K mile service intervals. I'll look again but I was looking for the longer interval like I had on my Landcruiser but could not find it. The reason is if I can have a 7500 mile interval (with full warranty coverage) it makes Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic the choice I would make. Do you have a Toyota site that states 7500 mile service interval is ok for the 4th generation 4runner? Thanks, I think I'm just getting old and have to read everything 10 times.
The only gas used was 87 octane regular. Chevron Pro Guard was added every oil change to keep the fuel system clean.
Speed up that hill loaded, foot to the floor was 50 mph for about 5 miles, at the top and bottom on flat land the truck runs anywhere between 65 and 80 mph.
Oh, and no trans cooler added but the truck did use a good systhetic tranny oil, again Red Line, but Mobil and others are good, too. Also used Red Line in the dif. And one last thing, always used WaterWetter by Red Line in the Radiator. You can check it out at http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp
In our test we got a 20 degree F reduction in coolant temp in back to back test.
I'm glad the engine looked so good because I have a 4Runner with the same engine.
Can't answer about dyno oil, we don't use it.
Speed up that hill loaded, foot to the floor was 50 mph for about 5 miles, at the top and bottom on flat land the truck runs anywhere between 65 and 80 mph.
Oh, and no trans cooler added but the truck did use a good systhetic tranny oil, again Red Line, but Mobil and others are good, too. Also used Red Line in the dif. And one last thing, always used WaterWetter by Red Line in the Radiator. You can check it out at http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp
In our test we got a 20 degree F reduction in coolant temp in back to back test.
I'm glad the engine looked so good because I have a 4Runner with the same engine.
Can't answer about dyno oil, we don't use it.
In racing engines it's dist h2o and WW. In street engines its 1/3 a/f 2/3 dist h2o and WW.
Here is the unscientific test.
Trip to Houston and back, up the hill, 111 debrees ambient, up the hill, take coolant temp with i/f gun, for base line with 50/50, a/f and dist h2o. Temp 240 deg F.
Next trip to Houston and back, same hill temp 109, coolant temp 218 deg F, with 1/3 a/f, 2/3 dist h2o and WW (one full bottle).
I know it's not science but we think it's good enough for us.
We never tested syn oil vs dyno on a trip like this because we just assumed the results would be something like we expected.
Lowering the concentration of a/f will always help lower the max temp because water cools better. So if you are traveling and have a marginal condition, dump the a/f and go to the grecery store for dist h2o. Other than than that, WW is a good product, does not promice to improve your life or make you rich, just helps out a bit.
Here is the unscientific test.
Trip to Houston and back, up the hill, 111 debrees ambient, up the hill, take coolant temp with i/f gun, for base line with 50/50, a/f and dist h2o. Temp 240 deg F.
Next trip to Houston and back, same hill temp 109, coolant temp 218 deg F, with 1/3 a/f, 2/3 dist h2o and WW (one full bottle).
I know it's not science but we think it's good enough for us.
We never tested syn oil vs dyno on a trip like this because we just assumed the results would be something like we expected.
Lowering the concentration of a/f will always help lower the max temp because water cools better. So if you are traveling and have a marginal condition, dump the a/f and go to the grecery store for dist h2o. Other than than that, WW is a good product, does not promice to improve your life or make you rich, just helps out a bit.
Larry, and TeryT. I've owned Dodge Cummins Turbo diesel trucks. Was a member of the TDR on the web and got their quarterly mag. Several members had trucks with over 1,000,000 miles, that's right I said one million miles. They used Rotella T 15w40 dino oil and changed oil and filter per the manufactures recommendation. None of these engines ever needed internal work. Quality dino oil is just as good as synthetic if you follow the manufactures instructions on maintaining your vehicle. The only time I think synthetic helps is for cold starts -20 degrees, or maybe if you are towing at the limit and in very hot climate +100 degrees, it will also let you extend your OCI 50% beyond what the manufacture recommends. Now if any of those fit your needs then use synthetic. Other wise use a quality dino oil and follow the manufactures recommendations and you will get tired of owning the vehicle before you will have oil related problems. That is if you own a Toyota 4runner Im sure there are some brands that it does not matter what oil you run you still will have problems.
Now personally I will alway use shorter OCI and better oils than the manufacture recommends including synthetics at 5K-7.5K OCI's but that is only because I am a car nut like you two guys
Im sure there are some brands that it does not matter what oil you run you still will have problems.Now personally I will alway use shorter OCI and better oils than the manufacture recommends including synthetics at 5K-7.5K OCI's but that is only because I am a car nut like you two guys
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TeryT
New member
Pitbull - Yeah, several of those factors will relate to me: I live in Arizona, with common summer temps above 100; I will be towing at about 17-13% under GCWR with the 4R; and will have a lot of hills and mountains to climb.
I will be doing everything I can to keep the vehicle cool & well lubricated; extra tranny cooler & tranny temp gauge; synthetics in anything I can; etc.
I think I'll try out that WaterWetter in my Pathfinder while towing this summer, to see how it does.
Thanks for the war story on the 4.7L engine. Anything else you know about it is appreciated (maint., quirks, etc.).
I will be doing everything I can to keep the vehicle cool & well lubricated; extra tranny cooler & tranny temp gauge; synthetics in anything I can; etc.
I think I'll try out that WaterWetter in my Pathfinder while towing this summer, to see how it does.
Thanks for the war story on the 4.7L engine. Anything else you know about it is appreciated (maint., quirks, etc.).
EDGE said:
Sludge? Never thought of that. I know the maintance manual is generic for all Trucks/SUV's which would account for several engines, so Toyota just decided to make it the shorter 5K service interval to make sure the engine that might sludge, would not go 7500 miles. Knowing it can't hurt the V8 to be changed every 5K miles. Makes sense. When I get to 60K miles and I'm out of warranty I will switch to Mobil 1 10w30 and go 7K mile OCI. I did that with my Landcruiser and traded at 137K miles.
Pitbull
You may have missed it but Toyota/Lexus had some problems with their 3L V6 engine and some 4cylinders, people where not changng the oil and the oil was becoming sludge so Toyota ended up replacing more then a few engines to keep it's name good when in fact the owners where just morons and never changed the oil, cars are still coming in with the problem so I guess they decided to cut it back to 5k, it's odd if you have the sludge problem long as you can show you changed the oil once a year unlimited miles they will replace your engine.
I have just realized in the past few years that most people do not even do anything but put gas in them, some of my fathers friends buy cars every 2-4 years and they change the oil once or twice within 40,000 miles, I was talking with this guy I know and he's telling me he bought this porsche and drove 43,000 miles and never changed the oil.
Some of the stuff I've seen people do with cars does not shock me in the least bit, you know how many times I've done something to my cars, minor like change the oil and my friends are like why.
My friend bought a Mustang GT, he had 8k on the car and was like what are you suppost to do to these things, I was like have you changed the oil it's suppost to be changed every 3-5, what does your dealer recommend, he was like I'll take it in when I have some time he got it changed at 14k, after he got it changed he was like, it has so much more power.
I think what it's coming down to is the manurfactures use to pretty much cover any problem or mistakes made with their cars, now they are realizing that people will suck them dry and they will not cover things like they use to, their was an article about manurfactures voiding or not covering certain parts of cars if they are use in any other manner then Daily Driving
You may have missed it but Toyota/Lexus had some problems with their 3L V6 engine and some 4cylinders, people where not changng the oil and the oil was becoming sludge so Toyota ended up replacing more then a few engines to keep it's name good when in fact the owners where just morons and never changed the oil, cars are still coming in with the problem so I guess they decided to cut it back to 5k, it's odd if you have the sludge problem long as you can show you changed the oil once a year unlimited miles they will replace your engine.
I have just realized in the past few years that most people do not even do anything but put gas in them, some of my fathers friends buy cars every 2-4 years and they change the oil once or twice within 40,000 miles, I was talking with this guy I know and he's telling me he bought this porsche and drove 43,000 miles and never changed the oil.
Some of the stuff I've seen people do with cars does not shock me in the least bit, you know how many times I've done something to my cars, minor like change the oil and my friends are like why.
My friend bought a Mustang GT, he had 8k on the car and was like what are you suppost to do to these things, I was like have you changed the oil it's suppost to be changed every 3-5, what does your dealer recommend, he was like I'll take it in when I have some time he got it changed at 14k, after he got it changed he was like, it has so much more power.
I think what it's coming down to is the manurfactures use to pretty much cover any problem or mistakes made with their cars, now they are realizing that people will suck them dry and they will not cover things like they use to, their was an article about manurfactures voiding or not covering certain parts of cars if they are use in any other manner then Daily Driving
Edge, I hear you. I was looking at used Lexus LX470 before I bought my 4runner. I looked at one "Certified" LX470, funny thing was that the service records showed that twice it had gone 10K miles between oil changes when the service manual recommended 5K mile changes to keep the warranty up. Even with this lapse in service they made this vehicle "Certified". I think you are better off buying new or not buying used unless you have all of the service records. JMHO
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