Oil Light at Idle

agloukhoff

agloukhoff

New member
Started up the JDM 5VZ for the first time today - started right up and runs like new.

Except for one thing.

At idle, which is around 700 RPM the Oil light comes on. Give it a little gas and at 1k it will go away instantly.

I've not tried driving the car at all yet, so not sure how it will be have under load. Any ideas beyond replacing the oil pressure sensor?
 
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agloukhoff said:
Started up the JDM 5VZ for the first time today - started right up and runs like new.

Except for one thing.

At idle, which is around 700 RPM the Oil light comes on. Give it a little gas and at 1k it will go away instantly.

I've not tried driving the car at all yet, so not sure how it will be have under load. Any ideas beyond replacing the oil pressure sensor?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a sludged up engine. You need to take a valve cover off and see what it looks like inside.

FWI, The engine is not generating enough pressure because the pick up is all clogged up. You can verify by looking under on of the valve covers.
 
Singtoe said:
Sounds like you have a sludged up engine. You need to take a valve cover off and see what it looks like inside.

FWI, The engine is not generating enough pressure because the pick up is all clogged up. You can verify by looking under on of the valve covers.
Click to expand...

Nope. Not sludge. I know this for a fact because not only have I had the valve covers off, but I've had to replace the oil pickup as it was a 2WD engine.

Zero sludge. Looks brand new under the valve covers.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/115821-tyrone-my-new-build-8.html#post1157426

I can't imagine that the pump is actually bad. At this point I have to assume that it's the sender, maybe JDM 2004 sender isn't same as 1997 US...
 
agloukhoff said:
Nope. Not sludge. I know this for a fact because not only have I had the valve covers off, but I've had to replace the oil pickup as it was a 2WD engine.

Zero sludge. Looks brand new under the valve covers.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/115821-tyrone-my-new-build-8.html#post1157426

I can't imagine that the pump is actually bad. At this point I have to assume that it's the sender, maybe JDM 2004 sender isn't same as 1997 US...
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What is the difference between JDM and US? My 5vz (and the rest of my 4runner) was from japan. The only difference might be tuned for less power or set up for right hand drive vehicles.

Never the less. If you think the sensor is bad, switch it from the old motor but the idiot light tells me that you have low pressure at idle. You might have a piece of silicone blocking the oil pick up. You might have the pick up tube not sealed correctly. who knows.

First thing to do is put and oil pressure gauge on to the motor and see what it says.
 
Not to be one to ask the obvious but have you checked the oil level? If it is just low enough the light will come on at low rpm's but go away at higher rpm's. Does the oil pressure sending unit have a good connection? A mechanical oil pressure gauge will give you a more accurate picture of what is going on under the hood.
 
wardriver said:
Not to be one to ask the obvious but have you checked the oil level? If it is just low enough the light will come on at low rpm's but go away at higher rpm's. Does the oil pressure sending unit have a good connection? A mechanical oil pressure gauge will give you a more accurate picture of what is going on under the hood.
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Yeah added 6Qt when I first filled it up, that put it just barley at Low. Added another 1/2Qt later. It's not just under Full.

Tomorrow I'll swap the senders, if that gets me nowhere, I'll get a mechanical gauge and see what that reads.

I did have to reseal the oil pan and put on a new oil pickup. I guess there is a possibility that chunks of the oil pan seal broke off or that the oil pickup isn't tight enough to form a good seal...but it's all guesswork I guess.

The engine came out of a Toyota Granvia, it was 2WD, had no oil cooler, different oil pan, oil filter where oil cooler goes, entirely different mountings so it IS possible that the sensors are different but admittedly unlikely.
 
Oil sender swapping didn't go as planned.

Original sender was a 27mm socket and came out fine, the JDM sender is 24mm and I do not have a 24mm deep socket. A stupid problem to have but still a problem.

I did sit in the truck and watch the RPMs on the scan gauge to pinpoint the exact point at which the oil light goes on - not sure what that tells me but I felt that I had to do SOMETHING today that could pass for progress.

So...at 830 RPM no light, 800 flicker, 770 and below steady on. Been reading more about the senders and figured out that they aren't all the same - the OEM toyota pressure switches have a trigger "between 2-6psi" which is kinda crappy because according to the the service manual normal pressure at warmed up idle is 4.3psi and up. Sooo there is some hope that I just have a sender triggering at 6psi.

Of course that is all wishful thinking, for all I know I have a sender that triggers at 2psi which is all I got at 800 and I flat out have 0psi pressure at 700rpm.

The mechanical gauge and a 24mm socket are in the mail...
 
Nothing is ever easy.

The mechanical gauge arrived - and of course despite having all kinds of metric adapters - none fit the 4Runner.

Unsurprisingly, but oh so very very disappointingly, swapping the sensors did not produce a different result at all.

Going to have to find out exactly what my pressure is at idle and at 3000RPM to figure out what to do.
 
Who cares what it reads at idle and at 3000rpm, you have a problem.


Find out were the oil pressure relief valve is make sure it is operational. It might be stuck open. if not then Pull the oil pan and have a look see. you might have some debris plugging the pick up tube.
 
Singtoe said:
Who cares what it reads at idle and at 3000rpm, you have a problem.


Find out were the oil pressure relief valve is make sure it is operational. It might be stuck open. if not then Pull the oil pan and have a look see. you might have some debris plugging the pick up tube.
Click to expand...

Umm. I care. If it's within range at 3000 rpm and close enough to 4 at idle, I don't care. Light at idle may be caused by everything from oil to filter type on the 5VZ as it's idle pressure is incredibly low.

Right out of the manual for the car:
The light may occasionally flicker when the engine is idling or it may come on briefly after a hard stop. There is no cause for concern if it then goes out when the engine is accelerated slightly.
Click to expand...

Pulling the oil pan is not trivial. Unless you want to come over and do it for me, I'm going to do all I can to ensure that it's absolutely necessary before I go down that path.

Pulling the oil pan, before knowing exactly what the pressure is, is really stupid.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singtoe
Who cares what it reads at idle and at 3000rpm, you have a problem.


Find out were the oil pressure relief valve is make sure it is operational. It might be stuck open. if not then Pull the oil pan and have a look see. you might have some debris plugging the pick up tube.
Click to expand...
Umm. I care. If it's within range at 3000 rpm and close enough to 4 at idle, I don't care. Light at idle may be caused by everything from oil to filter type on the 5VZ as it's idle pressure is incredibly low.

Right out of the manual for the car:
Quote:
The light may occasionally flicker when the engine is idling or it may come on briefly after a hard stop. There is no cause for concern if it then goes out when the engine is accelerated slightly.
Pulling the oil pan is not trivial. Unless you want to come over and do it for me, I'm going to do all I can to ensure that it's absolutely necessary before I go down that path.

Pulling the oil pan before knowing exactly what the pressure is really stupid.
Click to expand...

The Key word is occasionally. Like once in a while, like when you come to hard stop, like when the oil is low.

I have an oil pressure gauge on my runner and it shows higher pressure when the oil is cold. It also shows lower pressure when She has mileage on the oil.

Chalk it up to a life experience and pull the pan. Check the pressure relief first though.
 
Singtoe said:
The Key word is occasionally. Like once in a while, like when you come to hard stop, like when the oil is low.

I have an oil pressure gauge on my runner and it shows higher pressure when the oil is cold. It also shows lower pressure when She has mileage on the oil.

Chalk it up to a life experience and pull the pan. Check the pressure relief first though.
Click to expand...

Please, this whole foray into 4Runner ownership has been a life experience I'd rather not have had. I'm not looking for another...

What is your pressure at 700rpm?
 
Got the meter working!

These are warmed up numbers, engine temp at 187F.

Good news....
3000RPM = 70 PSI
2000RPM = 45 PSI
1000RPM = 15 PSI
800RPM = 6 PSI
Bad news...
700RPM = 3 PSI


At this point, I am going to wait and see if this goes away next oil change/oil filter.

You are probably right that in the end to really FIX the issue I will need to pull the oil pan and clean/tighten the oil pickup. Still what I really want right now is a weekend where I don't spend 20h working on the car. Sorry if I've come across as an ass - but I'm beat.

Driving it as is isn't going to blow it up unless it sits all day idling, even then I'm pretty sure that 3psi is going to be enough to keep the heads from drying.
 
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agloukhoff said:
Dude, I got to say - when I don't think that you're mad, I think you're admirable.

I'd rather pull the pan off with my teeth than fight the crank pulley.
Click to expand...

I learned the coolest trick to removing the crank bolt. Remove one spark plug, insert as much rope as you can push through the spark plug hole. Then proceed to remove crank bolt. It will break free easily. Installation is the reverse. Once your done, rotate the motor back a little and pull the rope out.

Easy peasy
 
Singtoe said:
I learned the coolest trick to removing the crank bolt. Remove one spark plug, insert as much rope as you can push through the spark plug hole. Then proceed to remove crank bolt. It will break free easily. Installation is the reverse. Once your done, rotate the motor back a little and pull the rope out.

Easy peasy
Click to expand...

That's great if you are on a compression stroke but what if it's an exhaust stroke and the exhaust valve is trying to open?
 
Well I'm 5spd. So my method of holding the crank is very simple - it's called 5th gear. Thing is, usually even with the bolt off the pulley doesn't always just slide right off.

Anyway, if I go digging through the engine again I'll start with the oil pan. I suspect it's the oil pickup not being tight or clogged. I picked up the oil pan, oil pickup and oil cooler on ebay and I can't say I inspected the oil pickup in great detail nor tightened it to spec as I couldn't find one...

The oil is Texas Tea 5W-30.
Oil filter is Purolator Classic.

Next oil change I'll try to see if I can put the old oil cooler on as well. I replaced it as the coolant passages were clogged. I'll try to clear them out.
 
Gerdo said:
That's great if you are on a compression stroke but what if it's an exhaust stroke and the exhaust valve is trying to open?
Click to expand...

Yeah make sure it is on cylinder #1 on tdc and the compression stroke.

Easy to to tell, make sure all the timing marks will line up. this will tell you that cylinder #1 is on compression stroke.

Make sure you back up a little bit so that there is space in the cylinder for the rope to be inserted and then proceed to remove the bolt.
 
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