old man emu shock ? bushing placement not like stock...

[theizzardking]

ok so here's what the washer bushing set-up looks like from the factory

and this is what the old man emu instructions look like,

a few washers are missing between the 2, who knows how i'm really meant to install this stuff? do i install it as stock but using the ome parts and 4runner parts? or do i just install it as per old man emu and throw away the extra washers in there?

 

[Nelsonmd]

Looks the same to me. The middle retainer goes on the bottom side on the mount.

Or do you just have extra parts you don't know what to do with?

 

[theizzardking]

Looks the same to me. The middle retainer goes on the bottom side on the mount.

Or do you just have extra parts you don't know what to do with?

there's a washer missing from the old man emu set-up the one washer that sits under the top hat/suspension support/spring locator

and basically my shocks aren't doing anything right now, I'm riding around just on my springs because the whole things didn't go together tight enough.....
which has me thinking either i missing a part or my impact wrnech and spring compressors weren't good enough for the job.

 

[Qyota]

It's there. Read the part starting with IMPORTANT: in the OME graphic. It's there, it's just drawn right up under the spring support.

When you re-assembled, did you run the nut all the way as tight as it would go?

 

[theizzardking]

It's there. Read the part starting with IMPORTANT: in the OME graphic. It's there, it's just drawn right up under the spring support.

When you re-assembled, did you run the nut all the way as tight as it would go?

yeah but i ran out of threads, and i think the ome is talking about the bushing inside the top hat it's self, which is by toyota standards is part of the spring support unit so not listed in that drawing, what old man emu is telling me there is not to pull the bnushing out of the top hat, you can see the bushing in the toyota drawing as well but it's not called out, if you look at the top of the plate in the toyo drawing you can see the hole and bushing there.....

just whats the deal with this extra washer?

 

[IanB]

It looks the same to me, just the OME drawing shows the retainer inserted into the bottom of the tophat, and the Toyota drawing shows it seperate.

 

[theizzardking]

It looks the same to me, just the OME drawing shows the retainer inserted into the bottom of the tophat, and the Toyota drawing shows it seperate.

it's not though i can assure you i circled the things that are the same in each drawing and marked out in purple whats different....

also you can see here, that bushing is part of the strut mount,

that bushing there is the one they are telling you they don't supply and to reuse, but if you buy new mounts that bushing comes in there already, and if you note that even if it did mean that bushing like your saying that still wouldn't work as then if you look at it the stock set-up would have a washer rubbing against bare steel on the under side of the strut mount or spring support or top hat or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Nelsonmd]

it's not though i can assure you i circled the things that are the same in each drawing and marked out in purple whats different....

also you can see here, that bushing is part of the strut mount,

that bushing there is the one they are telling you they don't supply and to reuse, but if you buy new mounts that bushing comes in there already, and if you note that even if it did mean that bushing like your saying that still wouldn't work as then if you look at it the stock set-up would have a washer rubbing against bare steel on the under side of the strut mount or spring support or top hat or whatever you want to call it.

That's not what mine looked like. If you pull that cushion off, then the retainer should be right there and you should be able to pull that off too. If that isn't the case, then your top hat is different than both sets of mine are.

 

[theizzardking]

so like this

or like this

i really do think the bushing that is pressed into the top hat isn't accounted for in the toyota drawing as my new set i just bought already has them pushed in, so it would be considered as part of that part and is not listed if that makes any sense.

here's what the bottom looked like out of the box, that bushing is pressed in there and does not simpley pull off

 

[IanB]

Are these top hats new, and what brand? From the looks of things, that rubber bushing needs to be pulled out, the retainer would be underneath it in the top mount assembly, and you would then use the poly bushings included in your kit and reassemble as per either diagram, and discard that rubber bushing you removed.

 

[theizzardking]

they are master pro's and yes they are new, and i'm 100% it's the right part # for our 4runners, the stealership told me that bushing stays in there, i really really think that bushing isn't listed in the toyota part list but shown in the ome list meaning that it's a non issue, frick it i'm going back to the dealership with this thread and all of my parts and talking with the service guys and see if i can come to an understanding of whats going on here, do i or don't i keep the bushing an retainer in there...???

 

[IanB]

Not all strut mounts are the same, aftermarket may use a different construction, or combo of bushings/washers that acheive the same end goal, and those diagrams no doubt are based on the OEM Toyota configuration. See what the Toyota tech's have to say (I'd talk to a tech over a parts guy, his computer isn't going to tell you what you need to know).

I still think that bushing needs to be pulled out and replaced with the poly parts in your kit. It's like the aftermarket assembly came pre-assembled instead of seperate parts like you were expecting to see. I've run into similar issues with aftermarket strut mounts and suspension mods before on other cars.

 

[theizzardking]

Not all strut mounts are the same, aftermarket may use a different construction, or combo of bushings/washers that acheive the same end goal, and those diagrams no doubt are based on the OEM Toyota configuration. See what the Toyota tech's have to say (I'd talk to a tech over a parts guy, his computer isn't going to tell you what you need to know).

I still think that bushing needs to be pulled out and replaced with the poly parts in your kit. It's like the aftermarket assembly came pre-assembled instead of seperate parts like you were expecting to see. I've run into similar issues with aftermarket strut mounts and suspension mods before on other cars.

well that bushing is a completely different shape as well it has a "nipple" that goes up through the steel plate and guides the shock rod through the hole in the plate and helps jeep it centered and i think that's why the yota drawing has 2 circles on the top of the plate, to show a bushing sitting inside of that through hole other wise it would just have been 1 circle to show a through hole, if your catching my line of thinking.
leaving work in about 15 mins to go and check this out, i'm driving down to san fran and back next week and i can;t do it the way things are now.....

 

[BigFishAllDay]

IK, you're making this way too hard on yourself man.

In the picture above, where you've circled "A", that is nothing but the center of the top hat... there is no part located in that circle.

"B" is the SAME thing in each diagram.

All the other parts I color coded, just match them up. Those diagrams are showing the same thing.

Regarding the photo below... The part circled in BLUE is your retainer... it's already installed on the top hat. The part circled in RED is the BOTTOM cushion. Yank that one in the picture off, replace it with the OME polyurethane bushing, put the OME supplied "RETAINING WASHER NEW" over the poly bushing, install the assembly over the shaft, then assemble the top side according to the OME/Toyota diagrams.

 

[theizzardking]

the old man emu bushings are flat on both sides, the top bushing has a "nipple" on it to keep the upper shock rod centered through the strut mount it's self, doing that would let the rod of the shock drift around inside of the mount making this happen

~original[/IMG]

that's my old one and what happened to me when i assembled it as shown above....

 

[BigFishAllDay]

On the stock setup, it's the "Retainer" that keeps the upper shock rod centered through the strut mount itself, preventing it from drifting around.

If you're real concerned about it, why not use the bushing that came w/your new top hats (the one w/the nipple) on the bottom, and the new OME poly bushing on the top side, and assemble it like that.

Having a poly bushing up top and a rubber one underneath isn't going to result in any measurable decrease in the performance of the setup.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

You've actually got me wondering if I even re-installed the "Retainers" when I put my SS 1.2 setup back together. The supplement that Sonoran Steel provides does not make a major point of re-using the retainers like the OME instructions do, in fact it doesn't even mention it. It's possible they may have remained stuck in the top hat and went back in, but I'm not sure.

The new bushings that SS provides also have those "nipples", which I believe are sufficient to keep the rod centered in the top hat.

I've been getting a weird noise up front since the install, and I was 99% sure I had it nailed down to the sway bar. But now you've got me wondering.

EDIT...

I just checked mine out, and I'm definitely running without the retainers. The "nipple" on the bushings is the only insulation between the shaft of the shock absorber and the top plate. This is the way SS says it should be installed, and that's the way I installed it. Imho, I don't think leaving it out leaves a large enough void for it to jump around enough to do damage to the top plate like your picture showed.

I would bet that the damage in the pic was the result of improper torque on the top nut or some other falter during the installation process. It actually looks to me like it was drilled out, given the two sharp points on either side of the hole... wear due to movement of the shaft would leave a much straighter edge to the widened hole in the top hat.

I have the "retainer" in my hand right now, and the lip that supposedly insulates the shock's shaft from the top plate is at most 1mm thick. That 1mm would not be enough movement to cause that damage. Not to mention that once the (proper) torque of the top nut, and the pressure of the spring are exerted on the bushings, the friction of the bushings on the top plate alone would be enough to center the shaft and prevent that kind of damage.

 

[IanB]

So what happened with this? I'm hoping to install my '99 springs tomorrow and this could save me some time.

 

[cbr900boy]

You've actually got me wondering if I even re-installed the "Retainers" when I put my SS 1.2 setup back together. The supplement that Sonoran Steel provides does not make a major point of re-using the retainers like the OME instructions do, in fact it doesn't even mention it. It's possible they may have remained stuck in the top hat and went back in, but I'm not sure.

The new bushings that SS provides also have those "nipples", which I believe are sufficient to keep the rod centered in the top hat.

I've been getting a weird noise up front since the install, and I was 99% sure I had it nailed down to the sway bar. But now you've got me wondering.

EDIT...

I just checked mine out, and I'm definitely running without the retainers. The "nipple" on the bushings is the only insulation between the shaft of the shock absorber and the top plate. This is the way SS says it should be installed, and that's the way I installed it. Imho, I don't think leaving it out leaves a large enough void for it to jump around enough to do damage to the top plate like your picture showed.

I would bet that the damage in the pic was the result of improper torque on the top nut or some other falter during the installation process. It actually looks to me like it was drilled out, given the two sharp points on either side of the hole... wear due to movement of the shaft would leave a much straighter edge to the widened hole in the top hat.

I have the "retainer" in my hand right now, and the lip that supposedly insulates the shock's shaft from the top plate is at most 1mm thick. That 1mm would not be enough movement to cause that damage. Not to mention that once the (proper) torque of the top nut, and the pressure of the spring are exerted on the bushings, the friction of the bushings on the top plate alone would be enough to center the shaft and prevent that kind of damage.

I know this is an old post but I have some information on this matter that might help someone in the future. That retainer is called a “centering washer”. And it is imperative you install it even with aftermarket struts, unless you buy a complete system i.e. coilovers, since you don’t use the oem top plate. I installed my new struts without it because one side was sheared off so I figured it wasn't that important…WRONG!!! About two months later my front end started making a faint noise that drove me nuts. To make a long story short I found out it was because I was missing the centering washer and the strut rod was moving around. Not much, but enough to make noise. Now all I had to do was order new washers from Toyota right…WRONG!!! They don’t sell the centering washers. Thank God for Steve at Sonoran Steel for enlightening me. He said the washer is actually glued to the bottom of the top plate. So I ended up buying a new top plate just for that one part. This was for my 2001 4runner 2wd. FYI, for my 1998 4runner 4wd, I installed the SS 1.2 kit and did reuse the centering washers.

-Danny